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Oppression and “Getting Revenge”

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should society consider “revenge” a threat?

Yes, these ideologies are a threat. We should focus all our efforts fighting them.
16
37%
Yes, but they can be dealt with easily and are not a major issue.
2
5%
Yes, but rather than deter, we should instead promote real equality to combat it.
9
21%
Yes, but there’s nothing we can do about it.
1
2%
No, these ideologies are fringe, and we can safely ignore them.
3
7%
No, but we should take action not to let these beliefs spread too widely.
1
2%
No, they shouldn’t be discouraged because they may allow for moderate reform.
2
5%
No, these beliefs should be promoted and the oppressed should get revenge.
3
7%
We should only spread the belief of David Hasselhoff for God-Emperor!
3
7%
Other (please specify below)
3
7%
 
Total votes : 43

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West Leas Oros 2
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Left-wing Utopia

Oppression and “Getting Revenge”

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:38 pm

Imagine that you are part of a group of people who have been subjugated by a society ruled by another group that is different to you in a small but noticeable way. Now imagine that a growing number of people in your group see the idea of equality as either unattainable, undesirable, or both. They advocate instead that they should get revenge and forcibly subjugate the group that kept them down, as a sort of “payback”.

Yes, I know this not-so-subtle hypothetical sounds mad and like some made up gobbledygook, but hear me out. Those of you who know me probably are aware of my opposition to many things, not least of which are ideologies that are based around identity, particularly around hating an identity.

Often I’m called foolish, paranoid, or even reactionary for believing so, but I am actually convinced that “revenge” based ideology is a serious threat, and that society has not only refused to pay attention to it, but has taken actions that, whether intentional or not, have emboldened these ideologies. From changing the definitions of words to coming up with justifications for such beliefs being promoted to claiming that its not an issue because bigger threats exist.

Even harder is thinking of how to properly combat such ideologies. Freedom of speech, press and assembly is widely supported in many nations, and for good reason. But it has its downsides in these scenarios. You can’t just jail people who say these sorts of things, just as we can’t jail people for saying they support the Nazis. Obviously, this makes things difficult in curtailing the spread of hate.

Some might also claim that this isn’t a threat because they don’t hold power and because they are “punching up”.

So what say you, NSG. Are these “revanchist” ideologies a threat? If so, how do you say we stop them? Or is this all just paranoia?

My answer to this is that we treat them the way we would any other sort of hate, as well as attempt to discredit them, just as we discredited pseudoscience like phrenology.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:01 am

Last time ideologies like these took over our continent half of it was wearing red and the other half was speaking German. So yes, we should combat them at every turn.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:04 am

This all sounds very familiar. You've introduced a new term is all. Not worth a thread.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:09 am

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

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Glorious Hong Kong
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:32 am

Such hate-fueled, identitarian ideologies ironically undermine equality and are just another form of persecution and discrimination disguised as social "justice". That's why my sig contains the phrase ALL LIVES MATTER. In America, such hateful, racist, sexist bullshit is being promoted openly and shamelessly by Democrats, BLM Marxists, and radical MeToo feminists who view whiteness and maleness as something inherently problematic that deserves to be degraded and minimized because it "makes them feel unsafe". They're the ones promoting the teaching of critical race theory in schools, universities, companies, federal agencies, and other aspects of society, pressuring people to take a knee in schools of all places, blocking motorists trying to get to work, screaming at diners, rioting, looting, and burning, and "moderate" sell-out Joe Biden is not going to do a damn thing about any of it besides pay empty lip service against riots. The only person who's really taking a firm stand against this authoritarian, woke bullshit is Donald Trump. He's the only one who is willing to push back against this bullshit with all his might and we have to have his back at all costs. Four more years.

In Malaysia, it's us Malaysian Chinese who have been the victims of decades of institutional quotas and affirmative action by racist Malays and Muslims who are jealous of our economic success. it's the same kind of vindictive, racist logic.

In China, the CeNtUrY oF HuMiLiAtIoN by a Western imperialist boogeyman from a bygone era is routinely invoked to justify the worst kinds of abuses imaginable such as gunning down peaceful protesters, passing draconian "national security" laws, organ harvesting, ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, forced sterilization, economic subjugation of the working poor by a tiny handful of filthy rich people with ties to the CCP, territorial conquest and irredentism, threats to invade a neighboring country and increasingly aggressive aerial "exercises" designed to intimidate said country, intellectual property theft, spying, infiltration, espionage, cyber-warfare, election interference, hostage diplomacy, cover-ups, disseminating fake news, Confucius "Peace" Institutes, and countless other abuses I haven't thought of.

In Weimar-era Germany, I think we all know who the victims of ideological revanchism are. Thank god that regime was overthrown by force.
Last edited by Glorious Hong Kong on Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vivolkha
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:57 am

"Revenge" politics are definitely a threat, but in the current day and age of polarization and extremism they have pretty much infected all major political ideologies, at least in most of the West.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:01 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Such hate-fueled, identitarian ideologies ironically undermine equality and are just another form of persecution and discrimination disguised as social "justice". That's why my sig contains the phrase ALL LIVES MATTER. In America, such hateful, racist, sexist bullshit is being promoted openly and shamelessly by Democrats, BLM Marxists, and radical MeToo feminists who view whiteness and maleness as something inherently problematic that deserves to be degraded and minimized because it "makes them feel unsafe". They're the ones promoting the teaching of critical race theory in schools, universities, companies, federal agencies, and other aspects of society, pressuring people to take a knee in schools of all places, blocking motorists trying to get to work, screaming at diners, rioting, looting, and burning, and "moderate" sell-out Joe Biden is not going to do a damn thing about any of it besides pay empty lip service against riots. The only person who's really taking a firm stand against this authoritarian, woke bullshit is Donald Trump. He's the only one who is willing to push back against this bullshit with all his might and we have to have his back at all costs. Four more years.

In Malaysia, it's us Malaysian Chinese who have been the victims of decades of institutional quotas and affirmative action by racist Malays and Muslims who are jealous of our economic success. it's the same kind of vindictive, racist logic.

In China, the CeNtUrY oF HuMiLiAtIoN by a Western imperialist boogeyman from a bygone era is routinely invoked to justify the worst kinds of abuses imaginable such as gunning down peaceful protesters, passing draconian "national security" laws, organ harvesting, ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, forced sterilization, economic subjugation of the working poor by a tiny handful of filthy rich people with ties to the CCP, territorial conquest and irredentism, threats to invade a neighboring country and increasingly aggressive aerial "exercises" designed to intimidate said country, intellectual property theft, spying, infiltration, espionage, cyber-warfare, election interference, hostage diplomacy, cover-ups, disseminating fake news, Confucius "Peace" Institutes, and countless other abuses I haven't thought of.

In Weimar-era Germany, I think we all know who the victims of ideological revanchism are. Thank god that regime was overthrown by force.


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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:20 am

Given what happened with countries like Germany and Rwanda, it's something worth avoiding.

But then it's also worth looking at the systems in our society and wondering if there might be some things that could be changed. I don't mean 'follow my ideology dude trust me', more just generally taking a step back and looking at things. If people wanna follow these ideologies? Sure. But actually having a look to see if there's stuff we could improve is also worthwhile.
Last edited by Nuroblav on Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:26 am

Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:27 am

Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on

No.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:30 am

Vassenor wrote:
Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Such hate-fueled, identitarian ideologies ironically undermine equality and are just another form of persecution and discrimination disguised as social "justice". That's why my sig contains the phrase ALL LIVES MATTER. In America, such hateful, racist, sexist bullshit is being promoted openly and shamelessly by Democrats, BLM Marxists, and radical MeToo feminists who view whiteness and maleness as something inherently problematic that deserves to be degraded and minimized because it "makes them feel unsafe". They're the ones promoting the teaching of critical race theory in schools, universities, companies, federal agencies, and other aspects of society, pressuring people to take a knee in schools of all places, blocking motorists trying to get to work, screaming at diners, rioting, looting, and burning, and "moderate" sell-out Joe Biden is not going to do a damn thing about any of it besides pay empty lip service against riots. The only person who's really taking a firm stand against this authoritarian, woke bullshit is Donald Trump. He's the only one who is willing to push back against this bullshit with all his might and we have to have his back at all costs. Four more years.

In Malaysia, it's us Malaysian Chinese who have been the victims of decades of institutional quotas and affirmative action by racist Malays and Muslims who are jealous of our economic success. it's the same kind of vindictive, racist logic.

In China, the CeNtUrY oF HuMiLiAtIoN by a Western imperialist boogeyman from a bygone era is routinely invoked to justify the worst kinds of abuses imaginable such as gunning down peaceful protesters, passing draconian "national security" laws, organ harvesting, ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, forced sterilization, economic subjugation of the working poor by a tiny handful of filthy rich people with ties to the CCP, territorial conquest and irredentism, threats to invade a neighboring country and increasingly aggressive aerial "exercises" designed to intimidate said country, intellectual property theft, spying, infiltration, espionage, cyber-warfare, election interference, hostage diplomacy, cover-ups, disseminating fake news, Confucius "Peace" Institutes, and countless other abuses I haven't thought of.

In Weimar-era Germany, I think we all know who the victims of ideological revanchism are. Thank god that regime was overthrown by force.


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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:31 am

Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on

I saw it more focused on the conspiracy theory-laddened ideologies you get from more authoritarian areas generally, rather than SJWism. Perhaps that was just me.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:33 am

Nuroblav wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on

I saw it more focused on the conspiracy theory-laddened ideologies you get from more authoritarian areas generally, rather than SJWism. Perhaps that was just me.

Yea, this is more about groups like black herbrew isrealites than mere annoying social justice activists.

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:36 am

Nuroblav wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on

I saw it more focused on the conspiracy theory-laddened ideologies you get from more authoritarian areas generally, rather than SJWism. Perhaps that was just me.

Considering the OP?
No.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:37 am

Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on


But if they move on who will explain to us how racist racial equality is or how sexist having consequences for sexual assault is?
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:41 am

Vassenor wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ah, yes, the anti-SJW circlejerk.
It's not 2015 anymore, guys, move on


But if they move on who will explain to us how racist racial equality is or how sexist having consequences for sexual assault is?

I see you haven't given up strawmanning. :roll:

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:49 am

Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:58 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
But if they move on who will explain to us how racist racial equality is or how sexist having consequences for sexual assault is?

I see you haven't given up strawmanning. :roll:


Apparently screaming about how BLM is a racist movement isn't calling racial equality racist now. Same for screeching about how sexist #MeToo is. :roll:
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:01 am

Vassenor wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:I see you haven't given up strawmanning. :roll:


Apparently screaming about how BLM is a racist movement isn't calling racial equality racist now. Same for screeching about how sexist #MeToo is. :roll:

I never said that. You're the one screeching bloody murder.

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.


And neither movement is.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Apparently screaming about how BLM is a racist movement isn't calling racial equality racist now. Same for screeching about how sexist #MeToo is. :roll:

I never said that. You're the one screeching bloody murder.

You might not have, but GHK did.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:04 am

Vassenor wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.


And neither movement is.


That wasn’t the intent, sure, but there are adherents that do use these movements in the way described. You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:05 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And neither movement is.


That wasn’t the intent, sure, but there are adherents that do use these movements in the way described. You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.


You should offer diplomacy lessons.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:06 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
That wasn’t the intent, sure, but there are adherents that do use these movements in the way described. You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.


You should offer diplomacy lessons.


Gods, no. I may keep it civil, but be glad you’re not able to hear my brain and what it’s screeching right now.
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Senkaku
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Senkaku » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:06 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
So what say you, NSG. Are these “revanchist” ideologies a threat? If so, how do you say we stop them? Or is this all just paranoia?

My answer to this is that we treat them the way we would any other sort of hate, as well as attempt to discredit them, just as we discredited pseudoscience like phrenology.


congratulations OP, you can translate from french to english
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