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Possible ban on German imperial flag, it is going to far.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Ban the Imperial German flag (1871-1918)?

Yes, it’s fascist and Nazi
15
4%
Yes
27
7%
No
101
28%
No, and those who say yes need a short history lesson.
209
58%
What is the German Empire?
9
2%
 
Total votes : 361

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Neuer Deutsches Reich
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Possible ban on German imperial flag, it is going to far.

Postby Neuer Deutsches Reich » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:40 pm

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.tellerr ... oEirw.html

In Germany, history is a touchy subject. Too many people of all over the world only know of the nazi period and will say that things from other German history were of the Nazi’s. Indeed it was a dark period, but not all German history consists of that short period! A country rich of glorious and lovely history, from the Germanic tribes to the unification of the German states. The same flag of the first unified Germany, possibly banned because of the nazi’s? In my opi nion, it is nearly treason if the government even dares to ban the flag. On the other hand there are also people using it wrong and give it a bad name. The Nazi flag is forbidden, so people often use the Imperial German flag instead. They think by using it they can be more like the National-Socialists, but because of dumb people like that, the flag should be banned? Will the neo-Nazi’s that don’t understand the history of the flag, decide its fate? Should all old flags of every nation be banned because of people misusing it? Should we drastically improve history lessons so people understand the past better? What do you think?
Last edited by Neuer Deutsches Reich on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:43 pm

The German Imperial flag (and it's variants) was used by the Nazis. If it didn't, the German Empire has it's own dark history of colonialism in Africa and it being the first nation in WWI to use chemical weapons, probably some other stuff I'm missing.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:46 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The German Imperial flag (and it's variants) was used by the Nazis. If it didn't, the German Empire has it's own dark history of colonialism in Africa and it being the first nation in WWI to use chemical weapons, probably some other stuff I'm missing.

In any case, I’ve seen plenty of Neo-Nazis use the Imperial Flag (or other imperial symbols) as a stand-in for overtly fascistic symbols.
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Neuer Deutsches Reich
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Postby Neuer Deutsches Reich » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:52 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The German Imperial flag (and it's variants) was used by the Nazis. If it didn't, the German Empire has it's own dark history of colonialism in Africa and it being the first nation in WWI to use chemical weapons, probably some other stuff I'm missing.

In any case, I’ve seen plenty of Neo-Nazis use the Imperial Flag (or other imperial symbols) as a stand-in for overtly fascistic symbols.

Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on
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Cop Met
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Postby Cop Met » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:52 pm

Very, very stupid. So not at all surprising coming from the left.

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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:53 pm

It is unfortunate that the German Imperial flag has been appropriated by Neo-Nazis and other troublemakers. However, I wouldn't support banning it, and I feel like doing so could set a dangerous precedent.
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:56 pm

Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:In any case, I’ve seen plenty of Neo-Nazis use the Imperial Flag (or other imperial symbols) as a stand-in for overtly fascistic symbols.

Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on

The iron cross symbol should be banned; but not the overall flag.
Because it’s only really the iron cross I see as neo-nazi
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Postby Beryti » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:57 pm

This makes as much sense as banning British, French, etc. colonial flags that were around and being used in the era of slavery. However, I do agree that the Neo-Nazis and other similar people should be banned from using it to appropriate their fascist ideals.
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:57 pm

Fascists also fly the American flag. Should that be banned too?
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:58 pm

Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:In any case, I’ve seen plenty of Neo-Nazis use the Imperial Flag (or other imperial symbols) as a stand-in for overtly fascistic symbols.

Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on

Of course not. It just means that Nazis are dickheads, and the fact that they try to appropriate everything they get their hands on, from vapor wave to paganism to Imperial Germany, is yet another reason to hate them. If anything, banning such symbols only lends legitimacy to their outlandish claims. If they seriously think that they’re being silenced for the littlest of things, rather than, you know, hate crimes, the last thing we want to do is declare everything fascist. Otherwise we turn it into a meaningless label that essentially allows for actual fascists to have rhetorical ammo.
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:00 pm

Cop Met wrote:Very, very stupid. So not at all surprising coming from the left.

I can’t speak for German Leftists, but I ain’t happy about this one, comrade.
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Postby Wubdich » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:00 pm

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on

The iron cross symbol should be banned; but not the overall flag.
Because it’s only really the iron cross I see as neo-nazi

The Iron Cross has historical backgrounds reaching back into the times of Prussia in its early days. It is nothing more than a military insignia linked to the Teutonic Order and later Prussia.
That is why the literal Bundeswehr (modern armed forces of Germany) is still using it. It is the least Nazi Symbol of all.
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:01 pm

kinda looks racist at first glance, but i think that's just because i've see racists use it
i'm all for it. i'm not german, but if the flag isn't officially used for anything and is a racist symbol, it just makes sense to prevent its use, like the confederate flag.
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:04 pm

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Postby Middle Barael » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:07 pm

I'd say it should be banned, but it should obviously be allowed for academic purposes
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Postby Neuer Deutsches Reich » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:07 pm

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:kinda looks racist at first glance, but i think that's just because i've see racists use it
i'm all for it. i'm not german, but if the flag isn't officially used for anything and is a racist symbol, it just makes sense to prevent its use, like the confederate flag.

A flag can’t look racist, it’s a flag. Also that it isn’t used doesn’t mean you can just ban it! It’s the fatherland flag, the OG flag of the first unified Germany! The confederate states is nothing compared to the German Empire. We don’t use the Roman flag, so you ban it? We don’t use the Soviet flag, ban it? Qing flag, ban? Bourbon France flag, ban?
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Postby Nejii » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 pm

This is getting ridiculous. I strive to maintain a centrist perspective on things but this historical suppression campaign by the radical left has gotten out of hand. People need to stop being such snowflakes...
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Postby Punished UMN » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:09 pm

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on

The iron cross symbol should be banned; but not the overall flag.
Because it’s only really the iron cross I see as neo-nazi

The Iron Cross is literally the symbol of the modern German armed forces.

I would say ban its use at political events, but not to outlaw it totally. Its political use in the modern day has a connotation, but that doesn't mean that we should allow Neo-fascists to take any symbol they like and appropriate it for their own use.
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:10 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:The iron cross symbol should be banned; but not the overall flag.
Because it’s only really the iron cross I see as neo-nazi

The Iron Cross is literally the symbol of the modern German armed forces.

I would say ban its use at political events, but not to outlaw it totally. Its political use in the modern day has a connotation, but that doesn't mean that we should allow Neo-fascists to take any symbol they like and appropriate it for their own use.

I would agree with this.
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:12 pm

Nejii wrote:This is getting ridiculous. I strive to maintain a centrist perspective on things but this historical suppression campaign by the radical left has gotten out of hand. People need to stop being such snowflakes...

Radical leftist here. Please stop blaming the actions of butthurt liberals on us, or we will throw you in gulag. :p
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Postby Nejii » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:30 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Nejii wrote:This is getting ridiculous. I strive to maintain a centrist perspective on things but this historical suppression campaign by the radical left has gotten out of hand. People need to stop being such snowflakes...

Radical leftist here. Please stop blaming the actions of butthurt liberals on us, or we will throw you in gulag. :p


Just try it. :evil:

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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:35 pm

Nejii wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Radical leftist here. Please stop blaming the actions of butthurt liberals on us, or we will throw you in gulag. :p


Just try it. :evil:

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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:35 pm

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:kinda looks racist at first glance, but i think that's just because i've see racists use it
i'm all for it. i'm not german, but if the flag isn't officially used for anything and is a racist symbol, it just makes sense to prevent its use, like the confederate flag.


The Imperial version of the flag isn’t even inherently connected to racism or anything in the n-no zone. Doesn’t make sense to ban it. Dumb move tbh.
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Postby Tekania » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:38 pm

Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:In any case, I’ve seen plenty of Neo-Nazis use the Imperial Flag (or other imperial symbols) as a stand-in for overtly fascistic symbols.

Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on


I agree.

Indeed banning symbols is a problem. All it does is make the group choose a different symbol. Thus then the thing comes to well ,we have to ban that now.... all banning this will do is make them adopt some other symbol.

Banning symbols doesn't actually do anything.
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:41 pm

Tekania wrote:
Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:Does that mean everything they try to use even tho it is not fascist or Nazist should be banned? Banning the Imperial German Flag will just mean they switch over to another flag that would also need to be banned and so on


I agree.

Indeed banning symbols is a problem. All it does is make the group choose a different symbol. Thus then the thing comes to well ,we have to ban that now.... all banning this will do is make them adopt some other symbol.

Banning symbols doesn't actually do anything.

Soon enough, we’ll run out of symbols to ban! Then what will bored teenagers scribble on the back of clipboards?
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