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[R] Flaming and threadjacking

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Glorious Hong Kong
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Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

[R] Flaming and threadjacking

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:47 am

Shofercia wrote:
New haven america wrote:1. Yeah, no, that's 100% just happening. In fact, 1/2 of the former Soviet states are dealing with a population that's rife with learned helplessness. You can tell which ones they are cause they're the ones that are dictatorships.
2. All of which became dictatorial states before it was too late to do anything, as I already said.
3. Why is Reagan celebrated as a national hero despite the fact that he did nothing but set in motion the economic system that would kill the middle class, took credit for the economic boom of the 80's despite having nothing to do with it (Computers were the cause), and turned the Republican Party Authoritarian?

Just because someone does something wrong or stupid doesn't magically make the incorrect behaviors of those they get replaced by disappear.

4. No, they'll do it because of learned helplessness. Former USSR states like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kyrgyzstan, etc... don't have that issue and are much freer, economically successful, and socially safe than those that are dealing with learned helplessness.
5. Yeah, sure, you'll just downplay it as much as possible and run into any thread where his name is mentioned to sing his praises. :roll:
6. Russia used to be the #1 economy in the entire world. Going by the standard you've presented thus far, I'd argue Putin's doing an even shittier job than I originally believed. After all, Russia used to be #1 but now it's only #6 if we're being generous.

That Shof is a faulty argument, you should know this because you've been using it quite a bit.


1. Ah yes, the theory of learned helplessness, which totally explains Russia's Revolution of 1917, which followed the 1905 Revolt. Like it totez does, all you have to do is ignore the facts, and the explanation will like totez work, pwomise!

Both were spawned by lack of proper infrastructure, military defeats, and repressive regimes, but hey, aren't people who were ruled by the House of Romanov since 1613 not supposed to revolt, ya know, learned helplessness and all? They've been learning since 1613! Joking and sarcasm aside, the theory was initially tested on dogs, and talks about individual behavior, rather than societal behavior. Furthermore, if the Russians have this "Learned Helplessness" why remove the unpopular Governor of Kaliningrad out of office? Why remove former defense minister Serdyokov, or Moscow's Mayor - Luzhkov? Why protest against the corrupt Yeltsin administration?

Furthermore, claiming that only half of the post-Soviet countries have Learned Helplessness is racist, since all of them were under the Russian Empire, had brief independence, and fell under the USSR. But only half have Learned Helplessness? Who theorized that one, Professor Bullshitter McCrap?

2. I don't view a state that has democratic presidential elections, where the president gets roughly his approval rating as a vote tally, as dictatorial. Furthermore, there were protests in Russia after a disputed Parliamentary Election, and, most recently, protests in Belarus after an allegedly rigged election. Remind me the last time that happened in Saudi Arabia or Zimbabwe...

3. While you're welcome to blame the Bush-Clinton created bullshit system of economics on Ronald Reagan, it's not factual, but neither is chanting "Learned Helplessness" in response to facts you dislike.

Putin's Demographic Reforms, the Crimean Reclamation, the Victory in the Ossetian War, Victories in Dagestan and Chechnya, stabilization of Russia, promotion of education, internet proliferation, economic boom, massive increase in the Standard of Living, etc, etc, etc - have all been good things.

4. The Baltics are currently moving to ban RT - an example of McFreedom no doubt: https://www.pri.org/file/2020-07-28/bal ... dcaster-rt Nothing says freedom of speech like suppressing it. Furthermore, smaller countries are going to be safer, that's just the nature of the beast - shall I compare the safety of Lichtenstein to France or the UK? Kind of desperate to throw an issue based on country-size, don't ya think? As for economic indicators, "dictatorial" Belarus is doing twice better than "democratic" Ukraine in terms of GDP-PPP-per capita, so you'd expect the Baltics to do twice as good as Russia, right?

Except, much like the rest of your post, that's also bullshit. According to the IMG, Russia's at $30,820 and Latvia's at $32,987. Much better? Did you even look at the facts before you made that disaster of a post?

5. I'll go into threads where someone's arguing against the facts, and point that out, if I have the time, but you do you.

6. I'm talking about Putin's tenure, and Russia wasn't the number one economy when he took over. If I was praising Gorbachev or Yeltsin, you'd have a point, but I've admitted, repeatedly, that both were total and utter disasters, even greater than the post that I'm responding to. Right now Russia's number five, ahead of Germany, according to the IMF, and the reason that I'm using the IMF, is because they have 2020 numbers whereas World Bank has 2019 numbers. Fairly soon Russia will surpass Japan, and be number four.

Who's ahead of Russia? The US - an economic superpower, as well as China & India - countries with over one billion people. Being in the top five ain't bad when that's the company you're in. That all ya got? Figures.


Flaming. Emphasis mine. Also threadjacking.

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The Archregimancy
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Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:06 am

Warning issued:

viewtopic.php?p=37693242#p37693242

A certain amount of thread digression isn't the end of the world, so I'm not going to act on that; but since it wasn't clear enough who that 'Professor Bullshitter McCrap' comment was targeted towards, a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target.

Shofercia should know better than to use that type of inflammatory language; I doubt Alexander Bortnikov would approve.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Glorious Hong Kong
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Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:37 am

Thanks Arch! *Leaves election cookies*

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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:Warning issued:

viewtopic.php?p=37693242#p37693242

A certain amount of thread digression isn't the end of the world, so I'm not going to act on that; but since it wasn't clear enough who that 'Professor Bullshitter McCrap' comment was targeted towards, a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target.

Shofercia should know better than to use that type of inflammatory language; I doubt Alexander Bortnikov would approve.


So now we're giving out warnings because something might be insulting?

In past instances, when it was unclear who was the target, the poster would be asked who the intended target was. Now a mod can just assume the worst case scenario and hand out a warning. That's a switch, it deserves an appeal, and I'm appealing. Posters should be informed of switches in moderation, rather than just having these switches happen through magic.

And I'm not even going to entertain an off topic discussion about Bortnikov, especially considering that off topic was part of the initial report.
What's more offensive to you: teacher being beheaded for free speech or rich guy not paying taxes? Oh yeah, rich guy's name's Trump - still think you don't have TDS?
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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:07 pm

Sorry about bugging y'all, but can I please get a second opinion here?

The moderator issuing the warning, admits:

...since it wasn't clear enough who that 'Professor Bullshitter McCrap' comment was targeted towards, a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target.


On the one hand, we have the allegedly baity language of the post. On the other hand, we have the fact that I haven't called any NSGer names in over a year. The mod admits that even with the baity language, it was unclear whom the comment was directed towards. In the thread, I later clarified that it was Martin Seligman, who doesn't have an NSG profile rather than the poster to whom I was responding.

Considering that:

1. The mod admitted it was unclear
2. I haven't name-called a poster on NSG in over a year, and I am not going to start now
3. I later clarified whom the target was, and it wasn't the poster
4. Moderators typically do not issue warnings when the situation is unclear

I believe that a second opinion is warranted, hence my request
What's more offensive to you: teacher being beheaded for free speech or rich guy not paying taxes? Oh yeah, rich guy's name's Trump - still think you don't have TDS?
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Stand with NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:17 pm

Shofercia wrote:Sorry about bugging y'all, but can I please get a second opinion here?

The moderator issuing the warning, admits:

...since it wasn't clear enough who that 'Professor Bullshitter McCrap' comment was targeted towards, a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target.


On the one hand, we have the allegedly baity language of the post. On the other hand, we have the fact that I haven't called any NSGer names in over a year. The mod admits that even with the baity language, it was unclear whom the comment was directed towards. In the thread, I later clarified that it was Martin Seligman, who doesn't have an NSG profile rather than the poster to whom I was responding.

Considering that:

1. The mod admitted it was unclear
2. I haven't name-called a poster on NSG in over a year, and I am not going to start now
3. I later clarified whom the target was, and it wasn't the poster
4. Moderators typically do not issue warnings when the situation is unclear

I believe that a second opinion is warranted, hence my request

The Mod who issued the warning stated "... a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target." Consider it a warning for baiting instead of flaming. The warning is upheld.
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Shofercia
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Posts: 30090
Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:21 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Shofercia wrote:Sorry about bugging y'all, but can I please get a second opinion here?

The moderator issuing the warning, admits:



On the one hand, we have the allegedly baity language of the post. On the other hand, we have the fact that I haven't called any NSGer names in over a year. The mod admits that even with the baity language, it was unclear whom the comment was directed towards. In the thread, I later clarified that it was Martin Seligman, who doesn't have an NSG profile rather than the poster to whom I was responding.

Considering that:

1. The mod admitted it was unclear
2. I haven't name-called a poster on NSG in over a year, and I am not going to start now
3. I later clarified whom the target was, and it wasn't the poster
4. Moderators typically do not issue warnings when the situation is unclear

I believe that a second opinion is warranted, hence my request

The Mod who issued the warning stated "... a warning is warranted - especially since the language is baity even without the clarity over the target." Consider it a warning for baiting instead of flaming. The warning is upheld.


In that case I'd like to ask what the baity language was, so that I don't do it again. Here's the quote, as quoted by moderator, in full:

Furthermore, claiming that only half of the post-Soviet countries have Learned Helplessness is racist, since all of them were under the Russian Empire, had brief independence, and fell under the USSR. But only half have Learned Helplessness? Who theorized that one, Professor Bullshitter McCrap?
What's more offensive to you: teacher being beheaded for free speech or rich guy not paying taxes? Oh yeah, rich guy's name's Trump - still think you don't have TDS?
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Stand with NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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Luna Amore
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Posts: 12330
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:35 pm

The confusion comes with how you punctuated it.

"Who theorized that one, Professor Bullshitter McCrap?"
The comma implies you are directly referring to the poster as Professor Bullshitter McCrap.

If you are going to use colorful nicknames like that, make it expressly clear it isn't directed at a poster or political nicknaming. It was not clear in your sentence, hence the warning.

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Shofercia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30090
Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:46 pm

Thank you for the explanation!
What's more offensive to you: teacher being beheaded for free speech or rich guy not paying taxes? Oh yeah, rich guy's name's Trump - still think you don't have TDS?
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Stand with NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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The Archregimancy
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 25157
Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:23 am

Luna Amore wrote:The confusion comes with how you punctuated it.

"Who theorized that one, Professor Bullshitter McCrap?"
The comma implies you are directly referring to the poster as Professor Bullshitter McCrap.

If you are going to use colorful nicknames like that, make it expressly clear it isn't directed at a poster or political nicknaming. It was not clear in your sentence, hence the warning.


Precisely.

Had the sentence in question read "Who theorized that one? Professor Bullshitter McCrap?" there would have been no ambiguity and no warning.

As written, reasonable people could read the sentence as flaming and/or baiting - as indeed happened even before moderator intervention. There is nothing new in the moderation team deciding that a reasonable interpretation of a post can take precedence over the intent of the poster; this is particularly true when the intent of the poster is unclear, as it was here.

I fully appreciate that this can potentially disadvantage posters writing in a second or third language, however well they speak that language, but the basic lesson I would hope would come out of this is to take greater care about this sort of thing when using potentially inflammatory language. Even a simple "that theory's total bullshit" would have worked better here (and wouldn't have been remotely actionable).


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