In “Treacherous Stab”, Bahrain Normalises Tie With Israel

[Celestial Provinces]

To get back on topic, at the beginning of this week, General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan of Sudan met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This is the first time an official and open diplomatic meeting has occurred between representatives of Sudan and Israel since the former achieved independence in 1956, and some have speculated that this could eventually lead to normalization between the two countries. While it has largely been kept under wraps in Sudan and the cabinet asserts that they had minimal knowledge of the meeting before hand, it was largely arranged by the UAE with Saudi and Egyptian tacit approval. Palestinian leadership has responded by calling it "a stab in the back", continuing the rhetorical trend began earlier this month.

Source

Nice

[The Lone Alliance]

A tragedy to be sure, but honestly the Arab monarchies have always been fickle at best. The blindness shown in the face of apartheid is really sad.

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

[Novus America]

A tragedy to be sure, but honestly the Arab monarchies have always been fickle at best. The blindness shown in the face of apartheid is really sad.

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

That and the Palestinian Arab leadership sides with Iran and Turkey, who are much bigger threats to the UAE and Bahrain than Israel is.

They cannot heat Israel, refusing to recognize Israel just makes Israel less likely to care what they think, and the Palestinian Arab leadership is against them, not with them. So it only makes logical sense.
That and they want access to better military technology.

[The Restored Danelaw]

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

That and the Palestinian Arab leadership sides with Iran and Turkey, who are much bigger threats to the UAE and Bahrain than Israel is.

They cannot heat Israel, refusing to recognize Israel just makes Israel less likely to care what they think, and the Palestinian Arab leadership is against them, not with them. So it only makes logical sense.
That and they want access to better military technology.

More importantly they want actual, tangible defense from the IR. Bahrain as a Shia majority and Iran used to have a claim on it, both making a potential attack from the IR more likely, while the UAE is categorically a regional rival that shares with Iran its most important naval trade node. Meanwhile Israel has been making the IR its bitch consistently for the last 3 years. That, and unlike Jordan, Egypt or Syria they don't have to pretend to give a fuck about so-called "Palestinians" to hide the fact they're rivals with Israel solely for territorial purposes.

[-Astoria-]

To get back on topic, at the beginning of this week, General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan of Sudan met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This is the first time an official and open diplomatic meeting has occurred between representatives of Sudan and Israel since the former achieved independence in 1956, and some have speculated that this could eventually lead to normalization between the two countries. While it has largely been kept under wraps in Sudan and the cabinet asserts that they had minimal knowledge of the meeting before hand, it was largely arranged by the UAE with Saudi and Egyptian tacit approval. Palestinian leadership has responded by calling it "a stab in the back", continuing the rhetorical trend began earlier this month.

Source

Undoubtedly good; however, I can't help but feel that it trivialises the condlict at hand.^{Then again, the Palestinian leadership isn't exactly making things better, either...}

[Insaanistan]

To get back on topic, at the beginning of this week, General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan of Sudan met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This is the first time an official and open diplomatic meeting has occurred between representatives of Sudan and Israel since the former achieved independence in 1956, and some have speculated that this could eventually lead to normalization between the two countries. While it has largely been kept under wraps in Sudan and the cabinet asserts that they had minimal knowledge of the meeting before hand, it was largely arranged by the UAE with Saudi and Egyptian tacit approval. Palestinian leadership has responded by calling it "a stab in the back", continuing the rhetorical trend began earlier this month.

Source

I personally find it unlikely that Sudan will recognize Israel soon. Though eventually, they almost certainly will. Why? Yes, the people are anti-Israel, but they don’t really care much about that. The real trouble for Sudan’s government is Sudan is still in crisis, the people are not exactly happy with the way power has been seized, and normalizing relations with Israel would likely be the last straw right now on top of everything else. For now, they’ll have to simply wait for things to cool down for a while.

[Salus Maior]

Frankly, I don't think there should be a normalization of relations with Israel until certain conditions are met. Namely, a normalization of relations between Israel and Palestine, and particularly a solid end of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands and restrictions to Holy sites for Muslims and Christians.

Frankly, there should be far more pressure on Israel to respect a border with Palestine. To do anything less is just going to enable Israel to continue abusing the Palestinians and colonizing the West Bank.

[Insaanistan]

A tragedy to be sure, but honestly the Arab monarchies have always been fickle at best. The blindness shown in the face of apartheid is really sad.

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

There actually the possibility Israel would not exist today. Did you see what happened when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? People from as far as Nigeria funded the Afghans or joined their ranks. However, Israel-Palestine was different. Firstly, much of the Islamic world thought Israel would be easy pickings for the Arabs. When it was apparent the US supported them, well, no one likes being in a war against America. The Islamic world, but more importantly, the Arab world, failed to unite under one banner. It soon got to the point that neither Pan-Islamism nor Pan-Arabism could save the cause. The Arabs had blown their numerous chances to oust the Zionists. The rest of the Muslim world will almost certainly never recognize Israel. Even in the countries that have, the people don’t support it. But the Arab monarchies are different. Long have the rest of the Muslim world taken issue with the Arabs, most important, the House of Saūd, who care more for oil money and tanks and missiles than their brethren. In the entire Middle East, not Jordan with a king who’s wife is Palestinian, not Saudi who claims to be “custodian of the Kaaba”, nor Egypt which hold the Sinai peninsula that until recently was virtually one with Gaza care for the Palestinians. It is Turkey and Iran, the former of which has historically recognized Israel, that even on the government level are active in the Palestinian cause, both of which are Arab minority countries.

[Novus America]

Frankly, I don't think there should be a normalization of relations with Israel until certain conditions are met. Namely, a normalization of relations between Israel and Palestine, and particularly a solid end of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands and restrictions to Holy sites for Muslims and Christians.

Frankly, there should be far more pressure on Israel to respect a border with Palestine.

The problem is (besides the fact Bahrain and UAE care more about other things than the Palestine problem, it is not their priority) that they tried that, and it did not work.

Actually by opening relations with Israel, the UAE got Israel to reduce threats to annex the West Bank.

By not recognizing Israel, they have no leverage over Israel, and give Israel no reason to listen.

The non recognition policy did not work. Demanding Israel meet all demands before recognition is a rather all or nothing approach, that so far got nothing.

[Salus Maior]

Frankly, I don't think there should be a normalization of relations with Israel until certain conditions are met. Namely, a normalization of relations between Israel and Palestine, and particularly a solid end of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands and restrictions to Holy sites for Muslims and Christians.

Frankly, there should be far more pressure on Israel to respect a border with Palestine.

The problem is (besides the fact Bahrain and UAE care more about other things than the Palestine problem, it is not their priority) that they tried that, and it did not work.

Actually by opening relations with Israel, the UAE got Israel to reduce threats to annex the West Bank.

By not recognizing Israel, they have no leverage over Israel, and give Israel no reason to listen.

The non recognition policy did not work. Demanding Israel meet all demands before recognition is a rather all or nothing approach, that so far got nothing.

Yes, my plan would have to require some of the big players to get involved, and admittedly it's a bit late for that. If America issued those kinds of demands and enforced a border, for example, that would probably be more effective than a gulf state simply making the demands.

The thing is, Israel isn't going to annex the West Bank as it is now anyway. That's not stopping them from allowing Israeli settlements to continue growing in the area, nor do they have any plans to reverse the colonization that's already happened.

[Vistulange]

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

There actually the possibility Israel would not exist today. Did you see what happened when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? People from as far as Nigeria funded the Afghans or joined their ranks. However, Israel-Palestine was different. Firstly, much of the Islamic world thought Israel would be easy pickings for the Arabs. When it was apparent the US supported them, well, no one likes being in a war against America. The Islamic world, but more importantly, the Arab world, failed to unite under one banner. It soon got to the point that neither Pan-Islamism nor Pan-Arabism could save the cause. The Arabs had blown their numerous chances to oust the Zionists. The rest of the Muslim world will almost certainly never recognize Israel. Even in the countries that have, the people don’t support it. But the Arab monarchies are different. Long have the rest of the Muslim world taken issue with the Arabs, most important, the House of Saūd, who care more for oil money and tanks and missiles than their brethren. In the entire Middle East, not Jordan with a king who’s wife is Palestinian, not Saudi who claims to be “custodian of the Kaaba”, nor Egypt which hold the Sinai peninsula that until recently was virtually one with Gaza care for the Palestinians. It is Turkey and Iran, the former of which has historically recognized Israel, that even on the government level are active in the Palestinian cause, both of which are Arab minority countries.

One, the US didn't particularly give too many shits about Israel until 1967, viewing it mostly as a small experiment that was doomed to fail.

Two, Turkey's lip service to the "Palestinian cause" has always been that, lip service. Due to a shared religion and so on, as well as the anti-imperialist founding ideology of the Republic, Turkey has always talked the talk about supporting Palestine, but in practice, it was a decent ally of Israel up until 2011, and even now, there's still considerable co-operation with Israel, though the recent unfortunate events in the Eastern Mediterranean are putting that on hold. Which I don't mind: Israel, for all its faults and problems, has a hope of becoming a proper liberal democracy. I don't see a future Palestinian state ever becoming a liberal democracy.

[Insaanistan]

Frankly, I don't think there should be a normalization of relations with Israel until certain conditions are met. Namely, a normalization of relations between Israel and Palestine, and particularly a solid end of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands and restrictions to Holy sites for Muslims and Christians.

Frankly, there should be far more pressure on Israel to respect a border with Palestine.

The problem is (besides the fact Bahrain and UAE care more about other things than the Palestine problem, it is not their priority) that they tried that, and it did not work.

Actually by opening relations with Israel, the UAE got Israel to reduce threats to annex the West Bank.

By not recognizing Israel, they have no leverage over Israel, and give Israel no reason to listen.

The non recognition policy did not work. Demanding Israel meet all demands before recognition is a rather all or nothing approach, that so far got nothing.

Well, reduce threats to annex it. They’re still bulldozing as many Palestinian homes and purposely cutting off as many Arabs from water supplies as ever.

[Novus America]

The problem is (besides the fact Bahrain and UAE care more about other things than the Palestine problem, it is not their priority) that they tried that, and it did not work.

Actually by opening relations with Israel, the UAE got Israel to reduce threats to annex the West Bank.

By not recognizing Israel, they have no leverage over Israel, and give Israel no reason to listen.

The non recognition policy did not work. Demanding Israel meet all demands before recognition is a rather all or nothing approach, that so far got nothing.

Yes, my plan would have to require some of the big players to get involved, and admittedly it's a bit late for that. If America issued those kinds of demands and enforced a border, for example, that would probably be more effective than a gulf state simply making the demands.

The thing is, Israel isn't going to annex the West Bank as it is now anyway. That's not stopping them from allowing Israeli settlements to continue growing in the area, nor do they have any plans to reverse the colonization that's already happened.

Well the problem is the 1967 borders (under which Palestine did not exist) are a non starter.
Any plan will require some border adjustments, such as potentially expanding Gaza at the cost of Palestine conceding some land in the 1967 West Bank.

If the demands are too ambitious, trying to solve the thing in one stroke, they will fail. Some of the issues have to be separated, and Israel given some concessions first.

It probably will be more give them a little to get a little, rather than try to get everything. At least now, by not wanting to lose their new relationships with Bahrain and the UAE, Israel is constrained from going too far.
It does not roll anything back true, but it provides some constraints on them going forward, constraints that did not exist before.

If no Arab country recognized Israel, Israel could and would completely ignore Arab concerns.

Israel has to have something to lose first, before you can get any leverage.

[Novus America]

The problem is (besides the fact Bahrain and UAE care more about other things than the Palestine problem, it is not their priority) that they tried that, and it did not work.

Actually by opening relations with Israel, the UAE got Israel to reduce threats to annex the West Bank.

By not recognizing Israel, they have no leverage over Israel, and give Israel no reason to listen.

The non recognition policy did not work. Demanding Israel meet all demands before recognition is a rather all or nothing approach, that so far got nothing.

Well, reduce threats to annex it. They’re still bulldozing as many Palestinian homes and purposely cutting off as many Arabs from water supplies as ever.

Yes. It did not get everything, but it got something.
The alternative was getting nothing though. Had the UAE stepped in they would not have even gotten that reduction.

When you have a really bad hand, you are stuck playing with bad cards, and when the other side knows you have a bad hand, you cannot even bluff. The Palestinian Arabs have a crap hand and Israel knows it.

So you are not going to get much out of them. You simply do not have the leverage.

[Novus America]

It's not blindness, just acceptance that there is literally nothing they can do about it.

Hamas is never going to win, ever, even if the entire Islamic world declared war on Israel and sent every soldier, tank, and plane they had at Israel it still would not result in a stable Palestinian state forming from the ashes, at best you'll have ashes, at worst you'll have radioactive ashes and Mecca's a smoking hole in the ground.

The Arab world is smelling the coffee and realizing that hating on Israel for 60 years has done nothing to stop them.

There actually the possibility Israel would not exist today. Did you see what happened when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan? People from as far as Nigeria funded the Afghans or joined their ranks. However, Israel-Palestine was different. Firstly, much of the Islamic world thought Israel would be easy pickings for the Arabs. When it was apparent the US supported them, well, no one likes being in a war against America. The Islamic world, but more importantly, the Arab world, failed to unite under one banner. It soon got to the point that neither Pan-Islamism nor Pan-Arabism could save the cause. The Arabs had blown their numerous chances to oust the Zionists. The rest of the Muslim world will almost certainly never recognize Israel. Even in the countries that have, the people don’t support it. But the Arab monarchies are different. Long have the rest of the Muslim world taken issue with the Arabs, most important, the House of Saūd, who care more for oil money and tanks and missiles than their brethren. In the entire Middle East, not Jordan with a king who’s wife is Palestinian, not Saudi who claims to be “custodian of the Kaaba”, nor Egypt which hold the Sinai peninsula that until recently was virtually one with Gaza care for the Palestinians. It is Turkey and Iran, the former of which has historically recognized Israel, that even on the government level are active in the Palestinian cause, both of which are Arab minority countries.

There was absolutely many possibilities it would not exist today (although US support for Israel was relatively limited at first, see the Suez Crisis for example).

But the past is past. Sure the Palestinian Arabs, and other Arab states, made numerous strategic and tactical errors that cost them badly.
But now that is done. When they had good cards, they played them badly, and now no longer have them.

Unfortunately when you lose, the other side will get more out of the resulting negotiations than you get.

[Fahran]

Undoubtedly good; however, I can't help but feel that it trivialises the condlict at hand.^{Then again, the Palestinian leadership isn't exactly making things better, either...}

Best case scenario in my view is that normalization forces the PA to the negotiating table and convinces them to accept a land transfer deal with hefty financial compensation and assurances of autonomy, hopefully with the Arab League and US acting as guarantors that Israel abides by the arrangement. With sufficient investment and a competent government, Palestine could probably develop an economy that surpasses Jordan's within a decade.

[Thermodolia]

Frankly, I don't think there should be a normalization of relations with Israel until certain conditions are met. Namely, a normalization of relations between Israel and Palestine, and particularly a solid end of Israeli encroachment on Palestinian lands and restrictions to Holy sites for Muslims and Christians.

Frankly, there should be far more pressure on Israel to respect a border with Palestine. To do anything less is just going to enable Israel to continue abusing the Palestinians and colonizing the West Bank.

Well one of the conditions was that Israel should stop any attempts to annex the West Bank, which they have done. So steps have been made.

If more nations say they are willing to recognize Israel than Israel will be more willing to open peace without Palestine. Continuing to keep normalization from happening until Israel changes hasn’t proven to work.