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What if England never existed?

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Bakanu
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What if England never existed?

Postby Bakanu » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:38 pm

England, a country that has conquered countless locations until eventually it's colonies were lost and it was reduced to a small island. But in an alternate timeline, what would happen if England never came to be. In the alternate timeline I'll just say that the english tribes never existed. One theory I have is that since no English tribe would exist, the Scots and Celts would take the rest of the land and possibly establish their own colonies. As you probably know, England established the 13 colonies, soon they revolted and became the world superpower that we all know. How do you think this alternate timeline would playout? Type in the reply section to tell me your theory.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:41 pm

Bakanu wrote:How do you think this alternate timeline would playout?

Not very well, partially because I wouldn't be here to post this.
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Bakanu
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Postby Bakanu » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:42 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Bakanu wrote:How do you think this alternate timeline would playout?

Not very well, partially because I wouldn't be here to post this.
We'd probably be speaking another language.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:45 pm

Europe would be far better off, especially with the likely dominance of Spain. It would have been easier to stomp the Protestant Reformation before it got too prevalent also.
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Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:48 pm

Britannia would not rule the waves.
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Bakanu
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Postby Bakanu » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:51 pm

Kowani wrote:Britannia would not rule the waves.

And America wouldn't exist, but someone else would probably rule the seas, maybe Scotland.

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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:53 pm

Like, nothing but Africa and South America would not change.
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Bakanu
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Postby Bakanu » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:59 pm

Tranzoria wrote:Like, nothing but Africa and South America would not change.
Well India and Hong Kong were English colonies too, and England helped unite India, so it's a little more than you think.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:00 pm

The world would be a better place.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:06 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Bakanu wrote:How do you think this alternate timeline would playout?

Not very well, partially because I wouldn't be here to post this.


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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:06 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:The world would be a better place.

I dunno. Their role of mega-colonisers would probably have been taken up by one of the other nations, like the Dutch Republic or Spain. Those were also not very nice to locals.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:07 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:The world would be a better place.

I dunno. Their role of mega-colonisers would probably have been taken up by one of the other nations, like the Dutch Republic or Spain. Those were also not very nice to locals.


Yeah but they weren't English so they were inherently better.
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Bakanu
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Postby Bakanu » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:09 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:The world would be a better place.

I dunno. Their role of mega-colonisers would probably have been taken up by one of the other nations, like the Dutch Republic or Spain. Those were also not very nice to locals.
Not to mention Russians also colonized the Americas so North America would probably be more divided and less united.

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:18 pm

Colonialism would still happen, but it would be led by other countries. Assuming we all still exist in the alternate timeline, I'd probably be a French-speaking Acadian. Maybe Quebecois. (One branch of my family are Quebecois anyway.)
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:35 pm

I am not sure at what point the OP is placing his point of divergence. "The English tribes" would not exist? The British Isles have been inhabited since 12,000 BC. The closest I can think of would be the migrating Angles and Saxons during the 4th-6th Century AD. Maybe the Celts put up a better fight or the Roman Empire was more stable and prevented them from large-scale immigration.

Anyways, Viking raids and conquest from the 8th Century on would still have happened, a France-based monarchy would still have invaded the island at some point because it's simply too close not to, and a distinctive English identity and polity with a naval trade/colonialist foreign policy would still have emerged.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:37 pm

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:43 pm

Baltenstein wrote:I am not sure at what point the OP is placing his point of divergence. "The English tribes" would not exist? The British Isles have been inhabited since 12,000 BC. The closest I can think of would be the migrating Angles and Saxons during the 4-6 Century BC. Maybe the Celts put up a better fight or the Roman Empire was more stable and prevented them from large-scale immigration.

Anyways, Viking raids and conquest from the 8th Century on would still have happened, a France-based monarchy would still have invaded the island at some point because it's simply too close not to, and a distinctive English identity and polity with a naval trade/colonialist foreign policy would still have emerged.


The great Viking empire does have a nice ring to it.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:53 pm

Britain would be a French Island.
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Cordel One
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Postby Cordel One » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:06 pm

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Seriously though, someone else would have taken their place and the world would be a little different.
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NPC Piedmont
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Postby NPC Piedmont » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:10 pm

Bakanu wrote:England, a country that has conquered countless locations until eventually it's colonies were lost and it was reduced to a small island. But in an alternate timeline, what would happen if England never came to be. In the alternate timeline I'll just say that the english tribes never existed. One theory I have is that since no English tribe would exist, the Scots and Celts would take the rest of the land and possibly establish their own colonies. As you probably know, England established the 13 colonies, soon they revolted and became the world superpower that we all know. How do you think this alternate timeline would playout? Type in the reply section to tell me your theory.

Probably the Romans would’ve just colonised Scotland too.
Then it would get independence(they have English territory), and I think the highland lowlands revolution(but without king George of england because he didn’t exist) would make the Highlander’s win and get the territory of the Scotland we know now.

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Ittonia
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Postby Ittonia » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:14 pm

Bakanu wrote:England, a country that has conquered countless locations until eventually it's colonies were lost and it was reduced to a small island. But in an alternate timeline, what would happen if England never came to be. In the alternate timeline I'll just say that the english tribes never existed. One theory I have is that since no English tribe would exist, the Scots and Celts would take the rest of the land and possibly establish their own colonies. As you probably know, England established the 13 colonies, soon they revolted and became the world superpower that we all know. How do you think this alternate timeline would playout? Type in the reply section to tell me your theory.

I personally agree in the possibile formation of a "Scottish Empire" ,yet I think the real "British Empire" in this timeline would be France : It's colonies in the Americas will stay ,It will become even more important in Africa and Oceania.

I would predict that currently,there would be a super-power Lousiana ,a Francofone Australia and Africa,would just be more francofone.

(And we'd be writing in French right know wondering if France never existed)
Last edited by Ittonia on Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The republic ofTexas and northern Mexico
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Postby The republic ofTexas and northern Mexico » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:17 pm

NPC Piedmont wrote:
Bakanu wrote:England, a country that has conquered countless locations until eventually it's colonies were lost and it was reduced to a small island. But in an alternate timeline, what would happen if England never came to be. In the alternate timeline I'll just say that the english tribes never existed. One theory I have is that since no English tribe would exist, the Scots and Celts would take the rest of the land and possibly establish their own colonies. As you probably know, England established the 13 colonies, soon they revolted and became the world superpower that we all know. How do you think this alternate timeline would playout? Type in the reply section to tell me your theory.

Probably the Romans would’ve just colonised Scotland too.
Then it would get independence(they have English territory), and I think the highland lowlands revolution(but without king George of england because he didn’t exist) would make the Highlander’s win and get the territory of the Scotland we know now.

I think that the native Americans would have sailed across the Atlantic and colonized england

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Pilipinas and Malaya
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:19 pm

I'm guessing that if the concept of England never came to be means that England is either underwater or remains a Nordic stronghold. The power balance in Europe would probably be heavily upset, with Frane coming out even stronger as a result of a lack of any form of English opposition. The Americas would be majority French, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch. The Crusades would probably have failed even harder.
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Postby Greater Konkan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:23 pm

I'd be speaking either Marathi, or French. Depends how successful French colonialism would have been. Portugal would most likely have lost its Indian colonies without the English alliance.
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