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Melicorium Issue Draft 1: A Quarrel We Don't Wanna Be At

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Melicorium
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Melicorium Issue Draft 1: A Quarrel We Don't Wanna Be At

Postby Melicorium » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:52 am

Trump wants to ban TikTok, and India has already banned it, so yeah. :P

(A Quarrel We Don't Wanna Be At)
Eligibility: The nation must allow the Internet.

The Issue
Relations between @@NAME@@ and Dàguó have recently hit an all-time low after several dissatisfied Dàguóan infantry units attacked @@A@@ @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ military outpost near its border, killing thirty @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ soldiers. Meanwhile, angry @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are calling to boycott ClikClok, a Dàguóan video sharing social media platform popular with the nation's teenagers, due to rumors that its home country's government is using it for virtual espionage on @@NAME@@.

1. "These foreign mongrels cannot be trusted!" exclaims @@RANDOMNAME@@, a parent of two devoted ClikClokers. "ClikClok is a serious threat to national security. It is stealing our precious children's personal information so their nefarious government can use it for who knows what - which sensible @@DEMONYM@@ wants our cities to be bombed and our Internet to be destroyed? @@LEADER@@, ban this malicious app! Think of our nation!" @@HE@@ proceeds to worriedly text @@HIS@@ children on what they are doing.

Result: Foreign intelligence officers formerly stationed online take to the streets en masse.

2. "You are forgetting the root of this entire problem!" says General @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@ of the Dàguó Liberation Army. "Your military bases are dangerously close to our nation, and we surely know that you are thinking of nothing but to violate our sovereignty! Pull out all @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ troops near our border; or else, they - and possibly your cities and network systems - should face the consequence of a heavy bombardment.

Result: Dàguó almost violates a neighbouring nation's neutrality to attack @DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ bases.

3. "Why can't we all just be friends?" questions teenager @@RANDOMNAME@@ in a video, while avidly dancing to the musical hit "Apex Aims". "What you all need is some happy dancing! Me and millions other @@DEMONYM@@ youth would want to be something greater and go make a legacy on world peace. Just share some of our videos with Dàguó and hopefully you guys can make up and they can stop stalking us. We will not give up on this important part of our culture; it's a little complicated anyway."

Result: Video sharing between nations to maintain friendship stays up on that rise.

4. "You know what? Let's do to them what they did to us," says nationalist and @@DEMONYM@@ Army soldier @@RANDOMNAME@@. "We should hold our ground against the Dàguóans, then launch an invasion of their country and advance until they accept their certain defeat. I also agree that we should ban this ClikClok spyware, but that's not enough: if anyone even does one of those cringey ClikClok dances which looks like @@A@@ @@ANIMAL@@ having a seizure, put them on an electric chair."

Result: @@DEMONYM@@ teens no longer have high hopes for a living.
Last edited by Melicorium on Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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SherpDaWerp
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:51 pm

Melicorium wrote:Dàguese
Dàguóan is the already-in-use demonym for Dàguó, IIRC.

Melicorium wrote:Concerned parents and forlorn ClikClokers alike are voicing out their opposing opinions on this matter of possible foreign espionage via an unlikely article.
As has become standard, this sentence could be removed. It doesn't add anything to the issue; it merely states "there's a problem". We know there's a problem, cause otherwise there wouldn't be an Issue.

Additionally, I think your premise is a bit easy. If ClikClok is stealing data from users, then it's a pretty clear-cut "stop that". I know that's basically what's happened IRL, but it's not a particularly interesting issue. "Should we let a foreign government spy on our citizens?" is a pretty simple question. A more nuanced issue you could create from the IRL case would be focusing on tensions between the two countries and leaving the data-theft somewhat ambiguous. Make it more a question of "can we block another country's app in our country, just because we're having a spat", and then one of the speakers can mention that it "might be used to steal data" or something similar.

Melicorium wrote:"ClikClok is my life, and I won't be happy without it!" says teenager @@RANDOMNAME@@ in a video, while avidly dancing to the musical hit "Apex Aims". "Me and millions other @@DEMONYM@@ youth want to be something greater and go make a legacy on @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture. Without it, we will never have our good feelings again. We will not give up on this important part of our culture; it's a little complicated anyway."
Compounding my above point - the first argument for keeping an app that's explicitly spying on you is "but I'm a kid so screw you".

Melicorium wrote:(Only available to nations with the Capitalism policy)
Not a bad option, but it does raise the point of "why isn't there a socialist version?" You could easily add in a "doppelganger" option advocating that the app be placed under government control.

Melicorium wrote:"You know what? ClikClok is just pure trash," says sleep-deprived Breadit user StonksGuy69 in a post. "Not only is it spyware in disguise, but all its community does is post cringey memes and do weird dances that look like @@A@@ @@ANIMAL@@ having a stroke. I say we not only ban ClikClok, but also yeet people who are caught even doing a ClikClok dance onto an electric chair."
Meme references generally don't make it in-game. This game has been running since 2002 (and hopefully will keep running for quite a while longer). Are memes from 2010 still relevant, amusing, and easily recognisable?

Melicorium wrote:Child predators take to the streets en masse following the ban of a social media app.
A popular social media app stays up on that rise after some controversy.
@@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ say it's uphill for oddities after the nation's youth gets more involved in fervent dancing on social media.
Large technology corporations suck money from social media apps while having control of their users' information.
@@DEMONYM@@ teens no longer have high hopes for a living due to fear of being killed if done so.

Your effect lines could be more amusing and often shorter. Sentence fragments that involve time aren't generally good for inclusion, which would cut all of them down by around half.
Following new legislation in @@NAME@@, child predators take to the streets en masse following the ban of a social media app.
This is one of the few formats effect lines can appear in. Note that the sentence starts with a fragment about time - "Following new legislation in @@NAME@@". This makes your effect lines read a bit weird. Any time you say something like "after x; following y; due to z", you're effectively duplicating the "following new legislation" bit, so it reads a little bit like this:
Following <thing>, <thing> after <thing>
Following <thing>, <thing> due to <thing>
Following <thing>, <thing> following <thing>


Melicorium wrote:child predators have taken to the streets en masse
a popular social media app stays up on that rise
@@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ say it's uphill for oddities
large technology corporations suck money from social media apps
@@DEMONYM@@ teens no longer have high hopes for a living
This is immediately a bit better - I'd almost say that #2, #3 and #5 are ok as-is because of the references; but only if you double down on the High Hopes theme (and probably change the title) to make it more of a motif rather than a duplicated joke. You've actually already doubled up on one reference (High Hopes for a <thing>). In fact, it might be worth broadening the joke to any Panic! at the Disco references, rather than limiting yourself to just one song.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:52 pm

Melicorium wrote:The Dàguese video sharing social media platform ClikClok, which is popular with @@DEMONYM@@ teenagers, has recently come under scrutiny for allegedly stealing its users' personal information for use by the Dàguese government.
What a travesty! Only private corporations should be allowed to steal users' information ;)

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 am

Option 1- forget about data theft. If the site is rife with paedophiles, wouldn't nation ban them for failing to do anything about it?
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Melicorium
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Postby Melicorium » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:55 am

SherpDaWerp wrote:-snip-

Thank you for all this good feedback. I have happily incorporated (almost) all of your suggestions into my draft.

However, I have one objection. IRL, Reddit has generally disliked TikTok ever since its worldwide release in 2018. There have been numerous memes on Reddit with a common theme of "Reddit Good, TikTok Bad". The slang "Yeet" also has been around since at least 2018. "StonksGuy69" is a reference to both Meme Man, who rose in popularity in the "Stonks" meme from 2019 and is still popular to this day, and the number 69, which... uhh... you know, nice.

My point is that the last option is intended to incorporate several memes common within Reddit.
Last edited by Melicorium on Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:04 am

Melicorium wrote:
SherpDaWerp wrote:-snip-

Thank you for all this good feedback. I have happily incorporated (almost) all of your suggestions into my draft.

However, I have one objection. IRL, Reddit has generally disliked TikTok ever since its worldwide release in 2018. There have been numerous memes on Reddit with a common theme of "Reddit Good, TikTok Bad". The slang "Yeet" also has been around since at least 2018. "StonksGuy69" is a reference to both Meme Man, who rose in popularity in the "Stonks" meme from 2019 and is still popular to this day, and the number 69, which... uhh... you know, nice.

My point is that the last option is intended to incorporate several memes common within Reddit.


Sherp's point is that the longevity of memes is not necessarily guaranteed, thus most references to memes aren't necessarily incorporated into the game. Would someone five years from now understand these references to the Reddit vs. Tiktok feud? We may get it now, but it's important to consider whether a reference will be understood some time from now.
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Melicorium
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Postby Melicorium » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:27 am

Westinor wrote:
Melicorium wrote:My point is that the last option is intended to incorporate several memes common within Reddit.


Sherp's point is that the longevity of memes is not necessarily guaranteed, thus most references to memes aren't necessarily incorporated into the game. Would someone five years from now understand these references to the Reddit vs. Tiktok feud? We may get it now, but it's important to consider whether a reference will be understood some time from now.

Thank you, I understood that better. ^-^
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Melicorium
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Postby Melicorium » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:32 am

=snip-
Last edited by Melicorium on Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:26 pm

Melicorium wrote:All suggested revisions have been done. Hopefully it's good now!

EDIT: Any additional feedback posts will be accepted until 10:00 PM CDT. I will be submitting my draft some time after.

I'd strongly advise against that, as submitting it right now would be a mistake. The draft hasn't even been up for more than a day, which is incredibly short. In order to gather enough, solid feedback you should keep it up on the forums for a lot longer. The longer you leave it as a draft on the forums, the better the whole can become.

I'd advise you to not pick a specific deadline for submission. Simply keep it up on the forums for a while and keep drafting when someone presents some feedback or commentary. I get that it's tempting to quickly draft and submit your issue, but if you submit too quickly you might miss crucial feedback that might be the deciding factor between being accepted or rejected.

A single day is way too short for a draft to gather enough feedback. As some have told you in the Writer's Block thread, you should at least wait several weeks before considering submission.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:06 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Melicorium wrote:All suggested revisions have been done. Hopefully it's good now!

EDIT: Any additional feedback posts will be accepted until 10:00 PM CDT. I will be submitting my draft some time after.

I'd strongly advise against that, as submitting it right now would be a mistake. The draft hasn't even been up for more than a day, which is incredibly short. In order to gather enough, solid feedback you should keep it up on the forums for a lot longer. The longer you leave it as a draft on the forums, the better the whole can become.

I'd advise you to not pick a specific deadline for submission. Simply keep it up on the forums for a while and keep drafting when someone presents some feedback or commentary. I get that it's tempting to quickly draft and submit your issue, but if you submit too quickly you might miss crucial feedback that might be the deciding factor between being accepted or rejected.

A single day is way too short for a draft to gather enough feedback. As some have told you in the Writer's Block thread, you should at least wait several weeks before considering submission.


This. You need to give a draft time to develop, and people to give you advice. Rushing an issue submission does you no good.

Melicorium wrote:Relations between @@NAME@@ and Dàguó have recently hit an all-time low after several dissatisfied Dàguóan infantry units attacked @@A@@ @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ military outpost near its border, killing thirty @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ soldiers. Angry @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are calling to boycott all Dàguóan products as a sign of protest - one of them being ClikClok, a video sharing social media platform popular with the nation's teenagers.


The idea of the current premise is fine - banning this app in retaliation towards some action by a foreign government. But an attack on your nation's military outpost? That's an act of war - it calls more for military retribution, not the banning of an app. Taking the irl basis into account, the motion to ban TIkTok was more a result of cyber-intelligence issues already being a problem and China being the most convenient scapegoat in light of recent animosity towards them, among other things - whether TikTok was actually a national security threat is disputed, as far as I know. Incorporating this sort of nuance would be a good move - making the argument that the app is a security threat but implying that it's actually a retaliatory measure would be a good start, but taking it in a different creative direction would be great too, as opposed to just repeating the irl basis as an issue.
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Electrum
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Postby Electrum » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:20 pm

I'm going to have to agree with Westinor here. To me, the premise seems a bit like a bait and switch.

You start the issue with "Dàguóan infantry units" killing thirty of my soldiers, and then all the other options are based on whether or not a Dàguó app should be banned. I suggest getting rid of that part of the premise and think about why the US/India is intent on banning TikTok, and working that into your premise instead of inventing an act of war.

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Melicorium
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Postby Melicorium » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:45 pm

Alright, Darwyrth and Westinor, I'll keep it up for a little longer. :)
Also, thanks for some more feedback! My draft has been updated accordingly.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:57 pm

Ignore the RL basis for a moment. If NS is still around 20 years from now, and people are reading this, a lot of them won't remember the RL story all that well. The issue needs to stand on its own even if people don't remember the RL incident that inspired it.

Right now, it does not have a clear central focus. It's trying to do too many things at once. You've still got a military conflict and a cybersecurity debate dumped together in one issue.
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Minskiev
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Postby Minskiev » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:01 pm

Kind of what the Monitor said. It? She? Weird. Anyways...

The meanwhile in the description is almost telling me that this issue has too much going on. There’s no need for the military conflict. You can just say that you don’t have good relations with Dàguó, because I’m 95% sure in the @@NAME@@-Dàguó lore, you’re roughly enemies.

Basically, it’s just got too much going on. Simplify it.




Popping in after a second check. Option one seems like the parent’s reading off of a script. “It is”? You need to add more emotion to it. Also, effect lines, or as you put them, results, don’t start with an uppercase letter.

Option two also seems monotone. Also, a Chinese media company has nothing to do with military conflict. There’s no root. The effect line is also...ehh. There’s no joke. I’m sorry if I’m being a little harsh, and I understand that this is your first time? in this ‘field’, but you should wait to submit.

One quick fix: If you’re describing something as, in my case, Minskievian, it’s @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@, because some nations have different adjective demonyms than noun demonyms. Example: @@DEMONYM@@ youth —> @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ youth

Option four: dances which looks? It’d be dance which look. Small nitpick, but :shrug:
Last edited by Minskiev on Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:30 am

I concur with my fellow editors. Get rid of the whole military provocation, and instead just centre it on the alleged security concerns around TikTok.
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