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Conflict between Greece and Turkey?

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Ansarre
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Conflict between Greece and Turkey?

Postby Ansarre » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:36 pm

Didn't see a thread on this on the last six or seven pages so I thought I'd make one. TL;DR - Greece and Turkey are being hostile towards each other, and things seem to be awfully tense. Main point of discourse is natural gas rights, refugee handling and border control are playing into this as well. Excerpts from Al Jazeera and New York Times respectively.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip accused European nations of using Greece as "bait" in the Mediterranean Sea confrontation while belittling Athens' military might on Tuesday.

Erdogan, who has threatened Greece with military action, described Turkey's activities in the eastern Mediterranean as the "pursuit of [its] rights and justice" and denounced what he said were Greek efforts to "imprison" Turkey to a small region surrounding its coast.

"Efforts to descend on the riches of the Mediterranean, which are the rights of every country around it, is an example of modern-day colonialism," Erdogan said.

In recent weeks, Turkish and Greek leaders have been engaged in tense rhetoric while their warships have been shadowing each other in the eastern Mediterranean.

Both countries' forces have been conducting a series of military exercises in the seas between Cyprus and the Greek island of Crete. The standoff was sparked when Turkey sent its research vessel, Oruc Reis, accompanied by warships to search for gas and oil reserves.

Greece, a member of the European Union, claims the waters are part of its continental shelf and has enlisted the support of the 27-nation bloc, which has condemned Turkey's "illegal activities" and plans to blacklist Turkish officials linked to energy exploration.


French President Emmanuel Macron said on Friday that he had taken a tough stance over the summer with regard to Turkey's actions in the eastern Mediterranean, setting red lines because Ankara respects actions not words.

"When it comes to Mediterranean sovereignty, I have to be consistent in deeds and words," Macron told reporters at a news conference.

"I can tell you that the Turks only consider and respect that. If you say words that are not followed by acts...What France did this summer was important: it's a red line policy. I did it in Syria," he said referring to French air strikes against suspected chemical weapons sites in Syria.

Macron has repeatedly demanded further EU sanctions against Turkey and the two NATO allies almost came to blows in June after a French warship attempted to inspect a Turkish vessel as part of a U.N. arms embargo for Libya.

"Germany and other partners are beginning to agree with us that Turkey's agenda is problematic today," Macron said. "When six months ago people were saying France is the only one blaming Turkey for things, everyone now sees that there is a problem."


Anyone else think that there is a possibility for this to get bad? The Erdogan regime has been acting up over the last few years, and like all authoritarian populist strongmen he needs a bunch of enemies for political advantage. Bullying the European Union? Perfect for Erdogan! However, he must have forgot to calculate the fact that Europe has a new generation of young leaders that are fiercely pro-Europe, and won't stand for Turkish aggression. President Macron has stood up to defend Greece, sending the French Navy in to try and intimidate the Turks. Hopefully there will be no need for any conflict, but I think it a stronger show of force is necessary to deal with the Turks. An integrated European military would have been very useful to deal with this situation...
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Postby Kiu Ghesik » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:38 pm

Not gonna happen as long as Greece has the EU backing it and Turkey's in NATO.
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Postby Heloin » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:43 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:Not gonna happen as long as Greece has the EU backing it and Turkey's in NATO.

They're both in NATO. It's not going to happen because for any sabre rattling either side does in this current increase of tensions neither side wants war.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:45 pm

Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks

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Great Mann
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Postby Great Mann » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:45 pm

The issues with Turkey are many and I do not find it within myself to be in anyway supportive of their geopolitical interests. Their investments in Libya and other civilly unstable nations is at the least concerning and worthy of opposition, while energy and economic matters less so - were I not a strong believer in the need to corner and maintain NATO grasp over Ankara and to ‘encourage’ Turkey to act in manners that more benefit NATO, the European nations and Israel. Turkey’s positioning with Moscow and departure from NATO interests is something of great concern that needs to be rectified.

On more topical matters, I agree with President Macron and support Greek interests in these issues. Should Ankara continue to threaten Athens, I will hold no sympathy once it bites the Turks in the arse.
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Kiu Ghesik
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Postby Kiu Ghesik » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:46 pm

Heloin wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:Not gonna happen as long as Greece has the EU backing it and Turkey's in NATO.

They're both in NATO. It's not going to happen because for any sabre rattling either side does in this current increase of tensions neither side wants war.

War! What is it good for?
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Great Mann
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Postby Great Mann » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:47 pm

Heloin wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:Not gonna happen as long as Greece has the EU backing it and Turkey's in NATO.

They're both in NATO. It's not going to happen because for any sabre rattling either side does in this current increase of tensions neither side wants war.


Essentially. However Ankara has drifted considerably from NATO if memory serves me correctly, but they’re still within the organisation. So yeah, agreed.
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Postby Heloin » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:53 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks


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Ansarre
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Postby Ansarre » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:00 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks


Turkey illegally invaded and occupied northern Cyprus. Your country has no right to accuse others of violating international agreements.
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Great Mann
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Postby Great Mann » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:06 pm

Ansarre wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks


Turkey illegally invaded and occupied northern Cyprus. Your country has no right to accuse others of violating international agreements.


As much as I hate being the devil’s advocate for Turkey of all countries, I must say that if we’re going by that logic then really none of the world has the right to accuse others of violating international agreements.

That is, if we cared about consistency. Which I don’t. So yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Postby Kowani » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:08 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Heloin wrote:They're both in NATO. It's not going to happen because for any sabre rattling either side does in this current increase of tensions neither side wants war.

War! What is it good for?

Explosions.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks


Image
A non-peaceful map that hinders Turkish trade. Leave these crusader games. You should not trust the imperialists, they will fail you again, we Turks are the true brothers of the Greeks.
Image

Ansarre wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Greece lands troops on the island of Meise, violates Lausanne and Paris Peace Treaties.We will protect the Mavi Vatan until the last drop of our blood, nobody can ignore the Turks


Turkey illegally invaded and occupied northern Cyprus. Your country has no right to accuse others of violating international agreements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:
A non-peaceful map that hinders Turkish trade. Leave these crusader games.
Image

So you think outright Tukrish hostility and the invasion of Kastellorizo is the best way for Turkey to keep in line with the Paris Peace Treaties, by utterly breaking them and being the aggressor in Greek and Cypriot territorial waters?

You should not trust the imperialists, they will fail you again, we Turks are the true brothers of the Greeks.

That'd be true if your reaction to Turkey breaking it's treaties wasn't ultranationalism and calls for war.
Last edited by Heloin on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Great Mann
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Postby Great Mann » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:30 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Heloin wrote:
A non-peaceful map that hinders Turkish trade. Leave these crusader games. You should not trust the imperialists, they will fail you again, we Turks are the true brothers of the Greeks.
Image

Ansarre wrote:Turkey illegally invaded and occupied northern Cyprus. Your country has no right to accuse others of violating international agreements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)


Turkish genocide of the Anatolian Greeks and the erasure of Greek culture by Turks says otherwise.

Edit: but to stay on topic, Turkey is absolutely not Greece’s friend. It can’t be trusted and I’d side sooner with Athens than Ankara, especially on these issues of trade and whatnot.
Last edited by Great Mann on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Aureumterra » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:34 pm

Turkey needs to be roped back into NATO, they’re behaving badly lately :p
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Postby Great Mann » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:41 pm

Aureumterra wrote:Turkey needs to be roped back into NATO, they’re behaving badly lately :p


Only if they’re getting the paddle. I don’t think just a rope would do unless we break a few child abuse laws.
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Postby Barlyy » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:44 pm

Turkish person speaking here, I support Greece in this conflict. The authoritarian Turkish regime isn't listening to any outside media and calling pretty much every single news that critize the government "lies" and "being scared of the Turks". They keep getting involved in Iraq, Syria, and many others, while there are much bigger problems inside the country. The AKP has turned away from the secular and science-based policies that the nation was founded on and instead turned the nation into an Islamist nation that focuses the very little scientific development in the nation into eveloping better weapons and not improving the quality of life with technology (excluding a small bit).
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:46 pm

Heloin wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A non-peaceful map that hinders Turkish trade. Leave these crusader games.

So you think outright Tukrish hostility and the invasion of Kastellorizo is the best way for Turkey to keep in line with the Paris Peace Treaties, by utterly breaking them and being the aggressor in Greek and Cypriot territorial waters?
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Image


Barlyy wrote:Turkish person speaking here, I support Greece in this conflict. The authoritarian Turkish regime isn't listening to any outside media and calling pretty much every single news that critize the government "lies" and "being scared of the Turks". They keep getting involved in Iraq, Syria, and many others, while there are much bigger problems inside the country. The AKP has turned away from the secular and science-based policies that the nation was founded on and instead turned the nation into an Islamist nation that focuses the very little scientific development in the nation into eveloping better weapons and not improving the quality of life with technology (excluding a small bit).
Wait for 2023 :)
Image
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:34 pm

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Postby US-SSR » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:37 pm

Take me back to Constantinople...
8:46

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It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

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Postby Insaanistan » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:41 pm

US-SSR wrote:Take me back to Constantinople...


You mean Islambol?

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Postby Whitemore » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:45 pm

Insaanistan wrote:
US-SSR wrote:Take me back to Constantinople...


You mean Islambol?

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Postby US-SSR » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:45 pm

Insaanistan wrote:
US-SSR wrote:Take me back to Constantinople...


You mean Islambol?

*Begins singing Ey Sanli Ordu*


All the girls in Constantinople are in Istanbul not Constantinople, if you have a date in Constantinople she'll be waiting for you in Istanbul.
8:46

No, I don't take responsibility at all! Person, woman, man, camera, TV!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Postby Insaanistan » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:46 pm

I think we can all agree this is pretty much Greece’s fault.
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