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The dehumanization of convicted and alleged criminals

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do you believe that felons are dehumanized?

1: Yes
17
74%
2: No
4
17%
3: Maybe/other
2
9%
 
Total votes : 23

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Asardia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

The dehumanization of convicted and alleged criminals

Postby Asardia » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:04 pm

Something that has bothered me for a long time is how we treat those convicted and accused of crimes. I'm not asking anyone to love these people, but many of them are American citizens, and thus they awarded the same constitutional rights as anyone else. I'll see incidents like George Floyd, where people straight up defend his death as "he did horrible things in the past, so why are you protesting/worried about it"?

The 5th amendment says:
...nor shall any person.... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...

The 8th amendment says:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

The 14th amendment says:
...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The Declaration of Independence says:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness


With cases such as George Floyd, people conveniently forget that we have 3 amendments that explicitly prohibit the type of treatment he received. "Oh, he's a criminal, he got what was coming to him". The Founding Fathers would beg to differ. Someone's criminal past does not mean that they aren't entitled to the same protections as any other American citizen.

The same argument gets extended to felons who can't vote. I believe this is morally wrong. I'm not opposed to preventing currently imprisoned people from voting, but once they did their time, they should be allowed a chance to re-enter society. However, felony disenfranchisement keeps people down. The cycle of poverty persists due to societal restrictions placed on people who have been "released" from prison. I would like to make the claim that these people have not been released; rather, they were simply given the illusion of freedom.

With the War on Drugs, a similar idea is applied. Drug addicts are sent to prison for decades. Our prisons don't focus on rehabilitation, but instead, punishment. I believe society treats felons as a burden. A group that is below the law-abiding sector.

Am I wrong in these assumptions? Are there just a few isolated cases that become mainstream news? Personally, I believe we do have a problem with grouping convicted felons into the "less-than" category.
Last edited by Asardia on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:12 pm

If people are defending the way George Floyd was treated, that is messed up. Those cops had plenty of time to put him in the car while he was still conscious and take him down to the station to have his case processed. There was no need to kill him.
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Outer Acharet
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Postby Outer Acharet » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Maybe? I mean, there's some aspect of truth to the statement that punishment isn't meant to be nice and cushy.

But US prisons don't rehabilitate people. And a criminal record is such a black stain in the US that you're fucked if you get one. Say goodbye to working in a job that's not minimum wage service for the rest of your life. Calling prisons rehabilitation facilities is just slapping a fresh coat of paint on them, not fixing the problem. And worse, it lies to the public what they're there for- rehabilitation, rather than punishment. I'd imagine the Founders didn't think felony convictions would extend to as many things as they did, but rather things it made sense to restrict voting rights to, like severe cases of robbery or assault. Not "oh, you smoked a joint, have fun never voting!"
Last edited by Outer Acharet on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:21 pm

USS Monitor wrote:If people are defending the way George Floyd was treated, that is messed up. Those cops had plenty of time to put him in the car while he was still conscious and take him down to the station to have his case processed. There was no need to kill him.


What are you talking about? Of course there was a need!

The wealthy elite needed to remind us filthy poors that only the rich get rights. God forbid any of us lower class people (especially bl*cks) get treated like human beings!

Just think how doubleplus ungood the world would be if the working class had RIGHTS!

/heavy s
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DoLlYsTaNa
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Postby DoLlYsTaNa » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:26 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
What are you talking about? Of course there was a need!

The wealthy elite needed to remind us filthy poors that only the rich get rights. God forbid any of us lower class people (especially bl*cks) get treated like human beings!

Just think how doubleplus ungood the world would be if the working class had RIGHTS!

/heavy s

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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:27 pm

Given how I've heard about it in the US, I would say so.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:What are you talking about? Of course there was a need!

The wealthy elite needed to remind us filthy poors that only the rich get rights. God forbid any of us lower class people (especially bl*cks) get treated like human beings!

Just think how doubleplus ungood the world would be if the working class had RIGHTS!

/heavy s

Nonsense. Rights? There's no such word. How doubleplus ungood of you >:(

/another s
Last edited by Nuroblav on Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mari Banu Simaal
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Postby Mari Banu Simaal » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:30 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:If people are defending the way George Floyd was treated, that is messed up. Those cops had plenty of time to put him in the car while he was still conscious and take him down to the station to have his case processed. There was no need to kill him.


What are you talking about? Of course there was a need!

The wealthy elite needed to remind us filthy poors that only the rich get rights. God forbid any of us lower class people (especially bl*cks) get treated like human beings!

Just think how doubleplus ungood the world would be if the working class had RIGHTS!

/heavy s


This is sadly way too close to the truth. The police have been politicized, and is sicked on "uppity" parts of the people. And yes: those who question the status quo are very quickly slandered, dehumanized, or abused / killed. Conviction is not required: just an allegation may be enough. Remember how that Karen tried to sick the police on a birdwatcher of color who told her to put a leash on her bitch of a dog?

"I am a white woman and a black man is threatening me"

No, Karen, someone (gender and color irrelevant) told you that the rules apply to you too. And if he hadn't filmed the interaction, you may well have killed him with your allegation. Over a f*cking dog leash.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:30 pm

Dollystana wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

StarClan I hope your joking


FYI

"/s" is used to explain a post is sarcastic in tone. I thought that was common knowledge.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:40 pm

If we condemned anyone who broke the law even remotely, a majority of Americans would probably be written off as horrible people.

Yeah George Floyd had a drug problem. Unlike Chauvin and Thao, his drug problem didn't kneel on someone till they perished.
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Asardia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Asardia » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:01 pm

USS Monitor wrote:If people are defending the way George Floyd was treated, that is messed up. Those cops had plenty of time to put him in the car while he was still conscious and take him down to the station to have his case processed. There was no need to kill him.


You'd honestly be surprised at how many people defend it. Especially once the riots started happening. YouTube and Reddit is filled with apologetics. It's sad, honestly.

Outer Acharet wrote:Maybe? I mean, there's some aspect of truth to the statement that punishment isn't meant to be nice and cushy.

But US prisons don't rehabilitate people. And a criminal record is such a black stain in the US that you're fucked if you get one. Say goodbye to working in a job that's not minimum wage service for the rest of your life. Calling prisons rehabilitation facilities is just slapping a fresh coat of paint on them, not fixing the problem. And worse, it lies to the public what they're there for- rehabilitation, rather than punishment. I'd imagine the Founders didn't think felony convictions would extend to as many things as they did, but rather things it made sense to restrict voting rights to, like severe cases of robbery or assault. Not "oh, you smoked a joint, have fun never voting!"


Totally agreed. I hope this changes in the future. With a law, Supreme Court ruling, or even an amendment.
If money is where you find happiness you'll always be poor
Often its not the driver but the passengers that find the right path

North German Realm wrote:Cantello. HE's empire looks like a Persian rug more than a flag, ngl

5pb wrote:"I'm cutting it off," Ayano raised an axe above her head

"Wait wait wai... FUCK!"


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