Should the death penalty's "appeals process" be scrapped?

[Purpelia]

Honestly I think you should just do what the OP said and make sure you got it right the first time.

I don't know why people don't just decide not to make mistakes.

You really, really, really didn't read my text.

[Ifreann]

I don't know why people don't just decide not to make mistakes.

You really, really, really didn't read my text.

You really, really, really didn't explain how it is that any kind of system could just choose to never get anything wrong.

[Purpelia]

You really, really, really didn't read my text.

You really, really, really didn't explain how it is that any kind of system could just choose to never get anything wrong.

Except I literally did that in the post you originally quoted. I provided an explanation AND two specific examples of it being applied for demonstration purposes. You just literally cut that part out without reading it.
So. again:

Honestly I think you should just do what the OP said and make sure you got it right the first time. That is to say if you want to have a death penalty only ever apply it when there is evidence above and beyond the normal burden of proof for guilt to the point where it is literally proven without any doubt at all that the guy did it. Like say if you have a mass shooter caught on video shooting people and than the police grab him as he fumbles to reload or something. And you have it all on tape complete with the smoking gun in hand. Or like when you capture a child molester in the act complete with a cache of home videos. Stuff like that.

Emphasis mine. One explanation and two practical examples to demonstrate it. And no, those are not hyperbolic in any way, shape or form. They represent the bare minimum I would see as reasonable to even consider the death penalty.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I think it's crueller to coup up a convicted murderer for the rest of his life in harsh and spartan conditions than to hang, gas, electrocute or kill him with a lethal poison. The long wait of years for execution in prison conditions is a misery which the convict's choice to delay the inevitable with appeals inflicts upon him. Therefore, as was the case when capital punishment was used in Britain,there should be one appeal to the head of the Justice Department, and within a fixed time, and its decision final.

Timothy McVeigh directed his lawyers not to appeal the death sentence. He was executed without any appeal.

So much for your claim that years on death row are more miserable than an execution. Any prisoner who feels that way can just opt out of appeals.

[The Twilight Embassy]

Right now the us criminal justice system can be summed up as "ten innocent men suffer while ten guilty men go free."

There's no right way to do the wrong thing.

A trolley is approaching several people tied down to the tracks. They were tied down by an all-knowing Predictor. All but one are innocent people who have been wrongfully accused of a crime. The very last person at the end of the train tracks is guilty of a crime; what crime the person at the end of the track is guilty of will vary depending on what The Predictor predicted you will do. The Predictor cannot predict that you will pull the lever all the way, but the Predictor also will not predict incorrectly.

Not pulling the lever results in all of them being given the Death Penalty. No amount of appeals can save them, and stalling through the appeals process does nothing but subject them to the horrors of American prisons until they finally die. If the Predictor believes you will pick this one, then pulling the lever completely means the criminal will kill a number of people equal to however many would be killed by you not pulling the lever.

Pulling the lever a fifth of the way will sentence everyone tied down to life in prison without parole or appeal. All them will become victims of prison rape and other similar atrocities. They will be held in a private prison where they are expected to perform slave labor due to a loophole in the 13th Amendment of the United States Constitution. If the Predictor believes you will pick this one, then pulling the lever completely means the criminal will get away with operating a human-trafficking ring that victimizes a number of people equal to however many would be imprisoned/enslaved/raped by you pulling the lever one fifth.

Pulling the level two fifths will sentence everyone tied down to life in prison without parole or appeal. All them will become victims of prison rape and other similar atrocities. Either private prisons will be abolished OR the loophole in the 13th Amendment will be plugged up. If the Predictor believes you will pick this one, then pulling the lever completely means the criminal will get away with the rape of number of people equal to however many would be imprisoned/raped by you pulling the lever two fifths.

Pulling the level three fifths will sentence everyone tied down to life in prison without parole or appeal. All them will become victims of prison rape and other similar atrocities. Private prisons will be abolished AND the loophole in the 13th Amendment will be plugged up. If the Predictor believes you will pick this one, then pulling the lever completely means the criminal will get away with sexually assaulting a number of people equal to however many would be imprisoned/raped by you pulling the lever three fifths.

Pulling the level four fifths will release all of them, but because the charge was a felony, they cannot vote, none of them will be employable. Their lives are basically ruined. If the Predictor believes you will pick this one, then pulling the lever completely means the criminal will get away with a corruption scandal that ruined the lives of equally as many people as those whose lives would be ruined by you pulling the lever four fifths.

Pulling the level completely enacts a rehabilitation system that allows all of them to go free without any long-term repercussions for any of them, and the guilty person will commit a crime equal in suffering to whichever option the Predictor believed you would pick.

I vote all crimes be worthy of the death penalty.

ok light yagami

[Salandriagado]

You really, really, really didn't explain how it is that any kind of system could just choose to never get anything wrong.

Except I literally did that in the post you originally quoted. I provided an explanation AND two specific examples of it being applied for demonstration purposes. You just literally cut that part out without reading it.
So. again:

Honestly I think you should just do what the OP said and make sure you got it right the first time. That is to say if you want to have a death penalty only ever apply it when there is evidence above and beyond the normal burden of proof for guilt to the point where it is literally proven without any doubt at all that the guy did it. Like say if you have a mass shooter caught on video shooting people and than the police grab him as he fumbles to reload or something. And you have it all on tape complete with the smoking gun in hand. Or like when you capture a child molester in the act complete with a cache of home videos. Stuff like that.

Emphasis mine. One explanation and two practical examples to demonstrate it. And no, those are not hyperbolic in any way, shape or form. They represent the bare minimum I would see as reasonable to even consider the death penalty.

Either you'll still make mistakes, or this is equivalent to abolishing the death penalty.

[Purpelia]

Either you'll still make mistakes, or this is equivalent to abolishing the death penalty.

Almost equivalent. There are indeed cases where people get caught in the act, caught on video or generally are proven without any doubt. Like for example when you find the strangled corpse of a rape victim with DNA still inside it and fingerprint on her neck. At that point... well it's hard to make a mistake isn't it?

[Ifreann]

You really, really, really didn't explain how it is that any kind of system could just choose to never get anything wrong.

Except I literally did that in the post you originally quoted. I provided an explanation AND two specific examples of it being applied for demonstration purposes. You just literally cut that part out without reading it.
So. again:

Honestly I think you should just do what the OP said and make sure you got it right the first time. That is to say if you want to have a death penalty only ever apply it when there is evidence above and beyond the normal burden of proof for guilt to the point where it is literally proven without any doubt at all that the guy did it. Like say if you have a mass shooter caught on video shooting people and than the police grab him as he fumbles to reload or something. And you have it all on tape complete with the smoking gun in hand. Or like when you capture a child molester in the act complete with a cache of home videos. Stuff like that.

Emphasis mine. One explanation and two practical examples to demonstrate it. And no, those are not hyperbolic in any way, shape or form. They represent the bare minimum I would see as reasonable to even consider the death penalty.

I don't know if you're familiar with recordings of moving images, but it's not always possible to recognise the people in them. Additionally, they can be manipulated and falsified. And in another thread we have a story about one police officer accidentally shooting another police officer, so their competence cannot really be relied on. Saying "Just apply this standard of evidence" doesn't do anything to address how the system can just choose to get everything right the first time, can just choose to not make mistakes.

---

Either you'll still make mistakes, or this is equivalent to abolishing the death penalty.

Almost equivalent. There are indeed cases where people get caught in the act, caught on video or generally are proven without any doubt. Like for example when you find the strangled corpse of a rape victim with DNA still inside it and fingerprint on her neck. At that point... well it's hard to make a mistake isn't it?

Forensics experts can't distinguish between human fingerprints and koala fingerprints.

[Des-Bal]

You have not presented or attempted to present any case that the appeals are unnecessary or unjustified. The percentage of death penalty cases that are successfully overturned is quite high.

[Purpelia]

...

In which case they don't count. Duh. Seriously, how is this difficult for you to understand?
Don't kill people. But if you really, really want to at least make sure you have overwhelming evidence to the point where it's impossible to kill the wrong one.
And yes, this is going to mean that killings will drop. Maybe even to like 1%. But that's not a bug. It's a feature.