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What should Silesia do?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What should Silesia/Silesians do?

Remain in Poland (status quo)
19
23%
Demand more autonomy in Poland
27
33%
Secede and become sovereign
12
14%
Leave Poland and join Czechia
11
13%
Leave Poland and join Germany
13
16%
None of the above
1
1%
 
Total votes : 83

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Katovice
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What should Silesia do?

Postby Katovice » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:15 am

For those who didn’t know, there is a well-developed Silesian autonomy movement. Generally, we Silesians are unhappy with our situation in Poland. Since the last round of Polish presidential elections took place yesterday, I have created a poll to further discussion what should happen next in Silesia.

My opinion: Silesia should leave the Polish dumpster fire (via referendum) and join Czechia (Czech Silesia, specifically).

What do you think Silesia/Silesians should do with regard to Poland?
Last edited by Katovice on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Okres Katovíce (Katovice district) is a protectorate within the newly formed Upper Silesian Region (Hornoslezský kraj).
The Upper Silesian Region (formerly Silesian voivodeship) was transferred from Poland to the Czech Republic after 2020 Polish presidential election (12.07.2020).


All pro-Czech/pro-Silesian views are my RL political views. Like many Silesians, I feel that Poland treats us terribly. There are many Silesians, me included, who think that we would do much better as part of Czechia and that being part of Poland is/was a terrible mistake.

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Anurial
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Postby Anurial » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:21 am

I looked for some data and it doesn't appear that any party in the regional assembly advocates for Silesian independence. I couldn't find opinion polling on the issue and if you have legitimate polls that show there's a sizeable majority that wants independence, then sure.

Otherwise, I see no reason for a region to be independent if the majority don't want to be.

EDIT: I echo the sentiment of the post below. More autonomy for all individuals and regions is always important, regardless of independence movements or lack thereof
Last edited by Anurial on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Twicetagram and JYPe
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Postby Twicetagram and JYPe » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:22 am

If you want to leave Poland, go ahead, and hope that the Silesians also have the same view as you, or Poland and Czechia decides to give you the green light.

My race/people(Karen people, search that up) were horribly treated(genocide, war) by the Burmese during the 1940s-80s. We created a liberation army. Our first goal was to gain independence, or join Thailand. We realised that that was too unrealistic, because you know the Burmese. So, we changed our goal to gaining autonomy, or world recognition.

It may or may not have worked, but hey, we tried. If your dreams of independence are too far fetched, aim for autonomy.
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Katovice
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Postby Katovice » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:32 am

The real problem for Silesian autonomy movements is their prior association with Germany/German organisations. Even among Silesians resentful toward Poland, Germany is never considered as an option. That past needs to be properly repudiated. Only then can any formal/organised movement gain traction.

Here’s the current situation. Poland due to the polarisation seen in this last election is getting weaker/more divided (good). A weaker Poland will make it easier to re-gather a new Silesian movement whose aims are either secession or joining another state (the only other viable state for Silesia is Czechia). Keep in mind that Warsaw has effectively led a continuous campaign of occupation/destruction of Silesia since 1945. It’s hardly surprising then that the “local” political leadership doesn’t reflect local interests.

And by the way, autonomy within Poland is impossible, it really is. Poles would rather face German tanks or Soviet/Russian commissars than give us Silesians even 1 cm of autonomy.
Okres Katovíce (Katovice district) is a protectorate within the newly formed Upper Silesian Region (Hornoslezský kraj).
The Upper Silesian Region (formerly Silesian voivodeship) was transferred from Poland to the Czech Republic after 2020 Polish presidential election (12.07.2020).


All pro-Czech/pro-Silesian views are my RL political views. Like many Silesians, I feel that Poland treats us terribly. There are many Silesians, me included, who think that we would do much better as part of Czechia and that being part of Poland is/was a terrible mistake.

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Hellslayer
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Postby Hellslayer » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:37 am

Leave. Now. My advice to all Polish. The elections have damned you all to years of hell.
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Definitely Not Trumptonium
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Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:47 am

Katovice wrote:For those who didn’t know, there is a well-developed Silesian autonomy movement.


Consisting of about 0.08% of the Silesian population - 211 people - as at the last election.
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Latvijas Otra Republika
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:51 am

Hellslayer wrote:Leave. Now. My advice to all Polish. The elections have damned you all to years of hell.

lmao
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:06 am

I'm unconvinced this is going to be a thing but I sort of want it to be just to see the EU sweating over whether they hate populist governments more than independence movements within member states.
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Katovice
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Postby Katovice » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:07 am

Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
Katovice wrote:For those who didn’t know, there is a well-developed Silesian autonomy movement.


Consisting of about 0.08% of the Silesian population - 211 people - as at the last election.


And I suppose your defintion of Silesia is the 1999 administrative division which includes Zagłębie Dąbrowskiego (Sosnowiec, Będzin, etc.), Częstochowa, and several other non-Silesian areas?

The whole post-1999 voivodeship demonstrates the Polish action of dividing and mixing disparate areas. Now, if we’re talking about historical UPPER SILESIA, then the matter may be different.

Regardless, Poland is getting weaker because of its own incompetence and mess. These elections revealed this increasing social division (if you can even call Poland a society). With that in mind, now is the perfect time for us Silesians to mobilise and to take action against our Polish occupier.
Okres Katovíce (Katovice district) is a protectorate within the newly formed Upper Silesian Region (Hornoslezský kraj).
The Upper Silesian Region (formerly Silesian voivodeship) was transferred from Poland to the Czech Republic after 2020 Polish presidential election (12.07.2020).


All pro-Czech/pro-Silesian views are my RL political views. Like many Silesians, I feel that Poland treats us terribly. There are many Silesians, me included, who think that we would do much better as part of Czechia and that being part of Poland is/was a terrible mistake.

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Katovice
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Postby Katovice » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:08 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I'm unconvinced this is going to be a thing but I sort of want it to be just to see the EU sweating over whether they hate populist governments more than independence movements within member states.

I actually wonder how the EU would react if a pro-Czech movement gained momentum in Silesia. In other words, would the EU allow for the transfer of a territory from 1 EU member state to another.
Okres Katovíce (Katovice district) is a protectorate within the newly formed Upper Silesian Region (Hornoslezský kraj).
The Upper Silesian Region (formerly Silesian voivodeship) was transferred from Poland to the Czech Republic after 2020 Polish presidential election (12.07.2020).


All pro-Czech/pro-Silesian views are my RL political views. Like many Silesians, I feel that Poland treats us terribly. There are many Silesians, me included, who think that we would do much better as part of Czechia and that being part of Poland is/was a terrible mistake.

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Anurial
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Postby Anurial » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:08 am

Katovice wrote:
The real problem for Silesian autonomy movements is their prior association with Germany/German organisations. Even among Silesians resentful toward Poland, Germany is never considered as an option. That past needs to be properly repudiated. Only then can any formal/organised movement gain traction.

Here’s the current situation. Poland due to the polarisation seen in this last election is getting weaker/more divided (good). A weaker Poland will make it easier to re-gather a new Silesian movement whose aims are either secession or joining another state (the only other viable state for Silesia is Czechia). Keep in mind that Warsaw has effectively led a continuous campaign of occupation/destruction of Silesia since 1945. It’s hardly surprising then that the “local” political leadership doesn’t reflect local interests.

And by the way, autonomy within Poland is impossible, it really is. Poles would rather face German tanks or Soviet/Russian commissars than give us Silesians even 1 cm of autonomy.


The only thing I could find on a "destruction" of Silesia was the Soviets deporting a bunch of people in 1945. Nothing about Warsaw, especially something that they're under threat from right now.

I found that about 847,000 people actually declared themselves as having Silesian nationality in the last census. Just under 400,000 of those people declared Silesian as their only nationality. This is out of 2 million and even assuming that every single person that declared themselves as having Silesian nationality desired Silesian independence, that wouldn't be enough. It's also pretty unlikely again given that no independence party holds seats in the regional assembly anymore (though they did in the last assembly).

As for autonomy, there is an issue with Poland being a unitary republic, though it's still possible to advocate for that. I can definitely see the argument for the PiS not granting autonomy since conservatives tend not to institute constitutional reform; it's just natural to how conservatism functions. Parliamentary elections are in 2023 so it's important to get liberal and left-wing politicians to get on board with the prospect of raising autonomy for regions.
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Postby Page » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:08 am

I'll admit to knowing nothing about this, but as a general rule I think anyone who wants independence should have it, and as Poland is becoming increasingly illiberal, I can definitely sympathize with Silesia if they want something better.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:59 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I'm unconvinced this is going to be a thing but I sort of want it to be just to see the EU sweating over whether they hate populist governments more than independence movements within member states.


We already had a country with that.

It was the UK :p
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Postby Sundiata » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:00 am

I completely oppose independence.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:05 am

Katovice wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:I'm unconvinced this is going to be a thing but I sort of want it to be just to see the EU sweating over whether they hate populist governments more than independence movements within member states.

I actually wonder how the EU would react if a pro-Czech movement gained momentum in Silesia. In other words, would the EU allow for the transfer of a territory from 1 EU member state to another.


That already happened.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgisch- ... 011_-_2017 Belgium and Netherlands exchanged a bit of territory a few years ago.

Granted, not as big as Silesia is, but still. If both countries agree to it, I am sure the EU will be okay with it.
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:41 am

Katovice wrote:For those who didn’t know, there is a well-developed Silesian autonomy movement. Generally, we Silesians are unhappy with our situation in Poland. Since the last round of Polish presidential elections took place yesterday, I have created a poll to further discussion what should happen next in Silesia.

My opinion: Silesia should leave the Polish dumpster fire (via referendum) and join Czechia (Czech Silesia, specifically).

What do you think Silesia/Silesians should do with regard to Poland?

I think you should provide some sources. How do we know you aren't the entire Silesian autonomy movement?
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:10 am

What happened in Poland?
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:14 am

Rojava Free State wrote:What happened in Poland?

Inconsequential election, that’s about it
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:19 am

Will the movement be under the leadership of the Silesian People's Front or the People's Front of Silesia?
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Postby Anatoliyanskiy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:24 am

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... yozv5rIa3t

This is a link for the Silesian Autonomy Movement. They are a political party that operates in Silesia that supports greater autonomy for the region/voivodeship/whatever you wanna call it. They currently have no seats in the Silesian Regional Assembly, but they do exist, which at least gives some support for the region's autonomy.

My views on them are that they should be allowed greater autonomy from Poland.
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Postby New Bremerton » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:24 am

Twicetagram and JYPE wrote:If you want to leave Poland, go ahead, and hope that the Silesians also have the same view as you, or Poland and Czechia decides to give you the green light.

My race/people(Karen people, search that up) were horribly treated(genocide, war) by the Burmese during the 1940s-80s. We created a liberation army. Our first goal was to gain independence, or join Thailand. We realised that that was too unrealistic, because you know the Burmese. So, we changed our goal to gaining autonomy, or world recognition.

It may or may not have worked, but hey, we tried. If your dreams of independence are too far fetched, aim for autonomy.


I assumed from your sig that you meant Karen as in the meme and your Discord name sounds Korean. My bad. Your people could try rocking the political boat in Myanmar by demanding a Myanmar for all ethnicities to the point where Yangon decides to expel your homeland like what happened to Singapore in 1965 when UMNO grew tired of the PAP's rabble-rousing.

To the OP, I say it's entirely up to you. Your people's right to self-determination is absolute and sacrosanct. Don't ever let anyone else tell you otherwise. I did not answer the poll because it's not for me to say as I don't have a personal beef in this fight as I do with HK, Taiwan, and Sarawak.

Generally speaking, the more persecuted the inhabitants of a region are, the stronger their case for independence is.
Last edited by New Bremerton on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:37 am

Form a union with Northumbria.
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Postby Heloin » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:40 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Will the movement be under the leadership of the Silesian People's Front or the People's Front of Silesia?

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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:41 am

Heloin wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Will the movement be under the leadership of the Silesian People's Front or the People's Front of Silesia?

Campaign for Free Opole.

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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:50 am

They could choose a name that sounds less like an expectorant cough medicine.
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