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My nation is weird as heck

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Dolgo
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Founded: May 05, 2020
Father Knows Best State

My nation is weird as heck

Postby Dolgo » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:10 am

Note: Please ignore my nation's factbook, this is purely about how the game sees my nation.

So, my nation has been classified as a psychotic dictatorship, a corrupt dictatorship, and now "Iron Fist Consumerists." Despite this, check out the nation's stats... Ranks highly in inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism... There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia... Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.

Meanwhile, it ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.

From what I've read elsewhere, my nation should most likely be a Nazi-esque hellhole... Instead, it's like a mix of Scandinavia and Singapore.

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Guini
Bureaucrat
 
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Founded: Dec 06, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Guini » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 am

so

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La xinga
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Posts: 2449
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:15 am

Low crime? When your nation has low freedoms, like you have, you go to those classifications. You could have 0 crime and be Iron Fist Consumerists, and there's nothing wrong with that. Go on Conservative mode and see what happens to your nation's "Iron Fist Consumerists"
Last edited by La xinga on Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dolgo
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Founded: May 05, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:16 am

Guini wrote:so


Your nation seems similar, but with low compassion and higher corruption.

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Deltia-
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Founded: Jul 13, 2019
Capitalizt

Postby Deltia- » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:17 am

Dolgo wrote:Note: Please ignore my nation's factbook, this is purely about how the game sees my nation.

So, my nation has been classified as a psychotic dictatorship, a corrupt dictatorship, and now "Iron Fist Consumerists." Despite this, check out the nation's stats... Ranks highly in inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism... There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia... Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.

Meanwhile, it ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.

From what I've read elsewhere, my nation should most likely be a Nazi-esque hellhole... Instead, it's like a mix of Scandinavia and Singapore.



inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism...


These have little effect on your classification, minus welfare.

There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia...Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.


Umm, yeah bro, the latter part isn't exactly what you call a nice state.

It ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.


Well, the first two don't matter, the others tend to mean your nation is pretty dictatorial.
Federal Kingdom of Deltia | Bundskongsriik Avontiken
A PMT de facto minarchist mafia state in OTL Poland that's Anglo-German and under a nominal constitutional monarchy.
Overview | Monarch | Riikskanzler | Parties
Current National Focus:Private Industry Partnerships [+3 civ factories]
(06/30/2032)Der Weld:BREAKING: WEISS NEARLY GETS ASSASSINATED BY GUNMAN| Now Playing:Juice WRLD, Marshmello - Come and Go 
Stonks: ADV 35 - +0.2%|CAC- -0.1%|FTSE- +0.4%|DAX- +0.3%
A 13.4 civilization, according to this index.(Tier: 7|Level: 2|Type: 5)
Each good reply, Alisa will gain 1% sanity. Counting: -20
YL/AL thing for me
Vanquish the summerposters!
Dibs on the next sig and best flag threads.

No NS stats
ADV 35=Deltian stock index

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La xinga
Minister
 
Posts: 2449
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:21 am

Dolgo wrote:
Guini wrote:so


Your nation seems similar, but with low compassion and higher corruption.

Check mine.

It seems the game thinks this:

AuthLeft-Socialists
AuthRight-Bad Dictatorships
LibLeft-Love fests
LibRight-Police State
Deltia- wrote:
Dolgo wrote:Note: Please ignore my nation's factbook, this is purely about how the game sees my nation.

So, my nation has been classified as a psychotic dictatorship, a corrupt dictatorship, and now "Iron Fist Consumerists." Despite this, check out the nation's stats... Ranks highly in inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism... There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia... Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.

Meanwhile, it ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.

From what I've read elsewhere, my nation should most likely be a Nazi-esque hellhole... Instead, it's like a mix of Scandinavia and Singapore.



inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism...


These have little effect on your classification, minus welfare.

There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia...Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.


Umm, yeah bro, the latter part isn't exactly what you call a nice state.

It ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.


Well, the first two don't matter, the others tend to mean your nation is pretty dictatorial.

My nation is far right religious straight pro-life authoritarians, and they are high in compassion and niceness and low in weponization.

Authoritarianism isn't bad.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Creationist, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

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Dolgo
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Posts: 73
Founded: May 05, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:21 am

Deltia- wrote:
Dolgo wrote:Note: Please ignore my nation's factbook, this is purely about how the game sees my nation.

So, my nation has been classified as a psychotic dictatorship, a corrupt dictatorship, and now "Iron Fist Consumerists." Despite this, check out the nation's stats... Ranks highly in inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism... There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia... Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.

Meanwhile, it ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.

From what I've read elsewhere, my nation should most likely be a Nazi-esque hellhole... Instead, it's like a mix of Scandinavia and Singapore.



inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism...


These have little effect on your classification, minus welfare.

There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia...Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.


Umm, yeah bro, the latter part isn't exactly what you call a nice state.

It ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.


Well, the first two don't matter, the others tend to mean your nation is pretty dictatorial.


Is my nation dictatorial though? It uses sortition, which effectively means the government is chosen by random.

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Dolgo
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Founded: May 05, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:33 am

What I mean more to say is that the NS classification doesn't do a good job of describing my nation: Dolgo are kept under strict control by the oppressive government, which measures its success by the nation's GDP and refers to individual citizens as "human resources."

That description doesn't match a society graded to be highly inclusive, compassionate, with gay marriage, and high living standards...

The oppressive part seems to match the nation's extreme intolerance towards crime, ubiquitous surveillance, and nanny-state government regulations.

It's almost like adding another dimension to the classification would be better... As in, a nation that is nominally oppressive, but uses government control to help people (high social spending, good health, etc.) rather than say use them as human resources to ruthlessly expand the economy, or keep a certain social class in power.

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Deltia-
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Posts: 92
Founded: Jul 13, 2019
Capitalizt

Postby Deltia- » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:34 am

Dolgo wrote:
Deltia- wrote:

inclusiveness, health, lifespan, foreign aid, welfare, compassion, and tourism...


These have little effect on your classification, minus welfare.

There's marriage equality, sex education, capitalism, and euthanasia...Along with the death penalty, parental licensing, corporal punishment, prudism, and conscription.


Umm, yeah bro, the latter part isn't exactly what you call a nice state.

It ranks extremely low in ignorance, political apathy, weaponization, crime, political freedom, and civil rights... With a very high amount of authoritarianism, and with just over 50% of the population considering themselves unhappy.


Well, the first two don't matter, the others tend to mean your nation is pretty dictatorial.


Is my nation dictatorial though? It uses sortition, which effectively means the government is chosen by random.


Well, I guess not, but NS isn't exactly what you can call considerate.
Federal Kingdom of Deltia | Bundskongsriik Avontiken
A PMT de facto minarchist mafia state in OTL Poland that's Anglo-German and under a nominal constitutional monarchy.
Overview | Monarch | Riikskanzler | Parties
Current National Focus:Private Industry Partnerships [+3 civ factories]
(06/30/2032)Der Weld:BREAKING: WEISS NEARLY GETS ASSASSINATED BY GUNMAN| Now Playing:Juice WRLD, Marshmello - Come and Go 
Stonks: ADV 35 - +0.2%|CAC- -0.1%|FTSE- +0.4%|DAX- +0.3%
A 13.4 civilization, according to this index.(Tier: 7|Level: 2|Type: 5)
Each good reply, Alisa will gain 1% sanity. Counting: -20
YL/AL thing for me
Vanquish the summerposters!
Dibs on the next sig and best flag threads.

No NS stats
ADV 35=Deltian stock index

User avatar
La xinga
Minister
 
Posts: 2449
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:01 pm

Dolgo wrote:What I mean more to say is that the NS classification doesn't do a good job of describing my nation: Dolgo are kept under strict control by the oppressive government, which measures its success by the nation's GDP and refers to individual citizens as "human resources."

That description doesn't match a society graded to be highly inclusive, compassionate, with gay marriage, and high living standards...

The oppressive part seems to match the nation's extreme intolerance towards crime, ubiquitous surveillance, and nanny-state government regulations.

It's almost like adding another dimension to the classification would be better... As in, a nation that is nominally oppressive, but uses government control to help people (high social spending, good health, etc.) rather than say use them as human resources to ruthlessly expand the economy, or keep a certain social class in power.

I mean, it seems it seems you think not allowing gay marriage is oppressive, but the game rates these stuff based on your civil rights, economic freedom, and political freedom.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Creationist, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

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Valentine Z
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7916
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:09 pm

So it is completely possible for a nation with rather bad civil rights (among other rights being suppressed) to have inclusiveness, a degree of compassion, here and there. So the thing is, from what I can see with your stats, your Authoritarianism is not high enough to be a Dictatorship that treats people badly, at least looking at it right now. I see that it used to be higher, or perhaps even one of the top few.

Psychotic Dictatorships with nice stats take a bit of working with. Compassion and Niceness, as far as I am concerned, will absolutely tank as you go on and on. Since your nation is relatively new, and perhaps due to the choices you have made, it might perhaps explain why you have the good stats.

Here's a chart detailing Authoritarianism >= 4000 with other stats put in. Softness Index is my own one - it normalises and adds [Compassion, Niceness, Inclusiveness, Cheerfulness] together in an attempt to show nations that are rather nice to live in, if not for the constant surveillance.
Image


Still, it's absolutely normal for a Psychotic Dictatorship to have really good Inclusiveness. Such is the case with my puppet nation, Samantha-Higgs, which has some "soft" stats here and there being in Top 1%. The idea is that while you might suppress people, everyone is treated equally in a morbid way - since your nation treats people as playthings or resources, it does not matter who the people are as long as they can work for the betterment of your nation. And thus where the inclusiveness came from.

Compassion vs Auth. Note that there are exceptions here and there.
Image


Niceness vs Auth. Nearly same as above.
Image


HDI vs Auth. For this, however, it was thanks to a large number of dictatorship nations not answering an issue and thus never bringing up their HDI. So it's not that it defaults down to ~ 40.00 HDI for really, really authoritarian nations; this was a meta cause. It still shows that it's possible for dictatorships to have good HDIs.
Image


Dictatorships can still yield nice and compassionate people if they started off as some other nation classification in the first place. Think of a nation that has recently underwent a regime change and the nice and compassionate people are now ruled by a despot. Maybe they didn't lose hope and they are still soft (as per the Softness Index), but over time, that hope could drift away and people become less and less optimistic or happy about their futures. A dictatorship also does not necessarily mean that these soft stats, or Health / HDI, has to be really, really awful. The government might treat its people as mere resources, but even they can and will know that a healthy citizen is an efficient citizen.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Noahs Second Country
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Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:10 pm

From my understanding the game's 27 classifications are purely based on the 3 freedom scores (Civil Rights, Political Freedom, Economic Freedom)

Low political freedoms + civil rights combined with midrange economic freedom falls within the parameters for "Iron Fist Consumerists"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Updated_NS_Graph.png
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Dolgo
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:05 am

Valentine Z wrote:So it is completely possible for a nation with rather bad civil rights (among other rights being suppressed) to have inclusiveness, a degree of compassion, here and there. So the thing is, from what I can see with your stats, your Authoritarianism is not high enough to be a Dictatorship that treats people badly, at least looking at it right now. I see that it used to be higher, or perhaps even one of the top few.

Psychotic Dictatorships with nice stats take a bit of working with. Compassion and Niceness, as far as I am concerned, will absolutely tank as you go on and on. Since your nation is relatively new, and perhaps due to the choices you have made, it might perhaps explain why you have the good stats.

Here's a chart detailing Authoritarianism >= 4000 with other stats put in. Softness Index is my own one - it normalises and adds [Compassion, Niceness, Inclusiveness, Cheerfulness] together in an attempt to show nations that are rather nice to live in, if not for the constant surveillance.


Still, it's absolutely normal for a Psychotic Dictatorship to have really good Inclusiveness. Such is the case with my puppet nation, Samantha-Higgs, which has some "soft" stats here and there being in Top 1%. The idea is that while you might suppress people, everyone is treated equally in a morbid way - since your nation treats people as playthings or resources, it does not matter who the people are as long as they can work for the betterment of your nation. And thus where the inclusiveness came from.

Compassion vs Auth. Note that there are exceptions here and there.


Niceness vs Auth. Nearly same as above.


HDI vs Auth. For this, however, it was thanks to a large number of dictatorship nations not answering an issue and thus never bringing up their HDI. So it's not that it defaults down to ~ 40.00 HDI for really, really authoritarian nations; this was a meta cause. It still shows that it's possible for dictatorships to have good HDIs.


Dictatorships can still yield nice and compassionate people if they started off as some other nation classification in the first place. Think of a nation that has recently underwent a regime change and the nice and compassionate people are now ruled by a despot. Maybe they didn't lose hope and they are still soft (as per the Softness Index), but over time, that hope could drift away and people become less and less optimistic or happy about their futures. A dictatorship also does not necessarily mean that these soft stats, or Health / HDI, has to be really, really awful. The government might treat its people as mere resources, but even they can and will know that a healthy citizen is an efficient citizen.


Damn, this is a beautiful post. Love the data presentation you provide. Assuming this data is not collected manually (as doing so would be like a full-time job), do you use a script to collect/compile it?

Thanks again for sharing!

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La xinga
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Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:30 am

And who ever said dictatorships need to be awful? :eyebrow:
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Creationist, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

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Hobbes Dystopia
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Founded: Mar 30, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Hobbes Dystopia » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:38 am

La xinga wrote:And who ever said dictatorships need to be awful? :eyebrow:

99.99999% of the times dictatorships are awful. As for the topic, I had the same idea as Noahs Second Country, that only the three freedoms count for the classification.
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La xinga
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Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:42 am

Hobbes Dystopia wrote:
La xinga wrote:And who ever said dictatorships need to be awful? :eyebrow:

99.99999% of the times dictatorships are awful. As for the topic, I had the same idea as Noahs Second Country, that only the three freedoms count for the classification.

Imma dictatorship, and my nation's good!
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Creationist, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

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Hobbes Dystopia
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Hobbes Dystopia » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:46 am

For your standarts, for mine it is awful. If you want to continue this, let's take it to TGs as it isn't the purpose of this thread.
Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Big Brother "the Wise"?
I thought not. It’s not a story the Democrats would tell you. It’s a Dystopian legend.

Long live to science! Long live reason!

Pro: Science, Reason, Environmentalism, Social Democracy, New Atheism, Progressivism, Internationalism, Youth politics, EU;
Anti: Organised Religion, Traditionalists, Conspiracy theorists, Fascism, Stalinism, Science Denial, Young Earth Creationists, Anti-vaxxers, Flat earthers.

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Valentine Z
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Posts: 7916
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:09 pm

Dolgo wrote:Damn, this is a beautiful post. Love the data presentation you provide. Assuming this data is not collected manually (as doing so would be like a full-time job), do you use a script to collect/compile it?

Thanks again for sharing!

Thank you! ^^ Ahh, yeah, it's done using Python and NS' API calls. Python and Matplotlib is a beautiful thing. I used to use Excel, but I only use it now to clean up the .csv a little bit.

As additional help and to supplement Noah's comment, here's a chart of average rights for each of the categories. All the data I have obtained are accurate as of 8-11th of June (it's been a while, and even when automated, it takes a while to get all of the nations' data). ^^

Image

I know most RPing nations don't use NS Stats that often as they aren't canonical, but hey, it's good to see someone that wants to make the stats in-line with their nation's canon. All the best with moving forward! :D
Last edited by Valentine Z on Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Dolgo
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:24 pm

Valentine Z wrote:
Dolgo wrote:Damn, this is a beautiful post. Love the data presentation you provide. Assuming this data is not collected manually (as doing so would be like a full-time job), do you use a script to collect/compile it?

Thanks again for sharing!

Thank you! ^^ Ahh, yeah, it's done using Python and NS' API calls. Python and Matplotlib is a beautiful thing. I used to use Excel, but I only use it now to clean up the .csv a little bit.

As additional help and to supplement Noah's comment, here's a chart of average rights for each of the categories. All the data I have obtained are accurate as of 8-11th of June (it's been a while, and even when automated, it takes a while to get all of the nations' data). ^^

Image

I know most RPing nations don't use NS Stats that often as they aren't canonical, but hey, it's good to see someone that wants to make the stats in-line with their nation's canon. All the best with moving forward! :D


My interest indeed in NationStates is because it uses so many statistics, combining that with answerable issues. It has limitations for sure, but even with other simulators like the Democracy series, I don't think anything really comes close to the depth of NationStates. I think it does an overall good job in giving you an idea at least what the nation would be like "in practice." With the fictional context and technical limitations in mind of course.

Would you by any chance be willing to share the script(s) you use? If not, it's no worries! I just think I and some others here may find them useful. Sharing them on GitHub for example may even allow others to expand upon them and share those as well.

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Valentine Z
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Posts: 7916
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Valentine Z » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:25 pm

Dolgo wrote:Would you by any chance be willing to share the script(s) you use? If not, it's no worries! I just think I and some others here may find them useful. Sharing them on GitHub for example may even allow others to expand upon them and share those as well.

I am planning on doing a Git repo somewhere in the future, but I will most very likely need to clean up my code first. ^^ It's a little messy but it works for me. Now I want to make sure it works for everyone.



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If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z !
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Dolgo
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Posts: 73
Founded: May 05, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dolgo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:40 pm

Valentine Z wrote:
Dolgo wrote:Would you by any chance be willing to share the script(s) you use? If not, it's no worries! I just think I and some others here may find them useful. Sharing them on GitHub for example may even allow others to expand upon them and share those as well.

I am planning on doing a Git repo somewhere in the future, but I will most very likely need to clean up my code first. ^^ It's a little messy but it works for me. Now I want to make sure it works for everyone.


Sounds good, I look forward to it!


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