Montenegro (update Serbia) possibly on verge of Civil War

[Vapormancer]

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

The claim that it was always going to fall apart is made by just about everybody these days. It does not take a genius to see how Serbs shit the bed and everyone else didn't want to live in the mess they made. It took Tito (a Croat) to sort the Serbs out. No surprise it fell to pieces like the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and was beaten/bombed/invaded like Serbia historically has been by outside forces.

Edit: I should add an anecdote about Tito's cleverness. He had Croatians learning Serbian and Serbians learning Croatian. When the big tough guy Croats showed up to fight, they couldn't understand Latin Letters and their phrases were all wrong. 4D chess stuff.

[Rojava Free State]

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

The claim that it was always going to fall apart is made by just about everybody these days. It does not take a genius to see how Serbs shit the bed and everyone else didn't want to live in the mess they made. It took Tito (a Croat) to sort the Serbs out. No surprise it fell to pieces like the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and was beaten/bombed/invaded like Serbia historically has been by outside forces.

Edit: I should add an anecdote about Tito's cleverness. He had Croatians learning Serbian and Serbians learning Croatian. When the big tough guy Croats showed up to fight, they couldn't understand Latin Letters and their phrases were all wrong. 4D chess stuff.

There seems to be alot of pro Croatian and anti Serb sentiment in this statement.

[Heloin]

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

Yugoslavia probably would exist today if Milošević had never come to power in Serbia. obviously much more complicated then that but I'm only going to speak in broad strokes. Probably would have become more and more federalised with possibly Slovenia breaking away. And if they joined the EU sometime in the mid 2000s they'd probably never break up any further.

[Gravlen]

Seems we need to breakdown the region to see where the problems are happening.

No major political problems, has far has I know, in the former Yugo. Balkan nations.

1. Slovenia
2. Croatia

Those which I know have major political problems.
1. MNE.
2. Serbia (yes things continue to heat up big time in Serbia)

Not sure about
1. Bosnia
2. Kosovo
3. Macedonia
Chances are both Bosnia and Kosovo have political problems but I have no idea to what extent.

Kosovo is just an all around dangerous place. It doesnt have political problems as much as just the problems you would see in an American inner city. It's very poor and there's alot of drugs and crime. But thats what it's like when your country is literally made up of "civil bloodbath survivors."

Kosovo isn't extraordinarily dangerous, but the issues you point out do exist. You'll feel safe walking down a street in Prishtina, as long as you're aware of potential pickpockets.

[Greed and Death]

I don't know what everyone is worked up about. It is not like this area of Europe every started a world war or anything.

[Shofercia]

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

The claim that it was always going to fall apart is made by just about everybody these days. It does not take a genius to see how Serbs shit the bed and everyone else didn't want to live in the mess they made. It took Tito (a Croat) to sort the Serbs out. No surprise it fell to pieces like the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and was beaten/bombed/invaded like Serbia historically has been by outside forces.

Edit: I should add an anecdote about Tito's cleverness. He had Croatians learning Serbian and Serbians learning Croatian. When the big tough guy Croats showed up to fight, they couldn't understand Latin Letters and their phrases were all wrong. 4D chess stuff.

People say that countries will fall apart, and then they don't. Back in the late eighteenth century, lots of people were predicting that US would fall apart. As far as leadership goes, it could come from any ethnicity; there's no magical Croat trait that says that Serbs couldn't produce their own Tito. I think that Yugoslavia wasn't given a chance to thrive.

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

Yugoslavia probably would exist today if Milošević had never come to power in Serbia. obviously much more complicated then that but I'm only going to speak in broad strokes. Probably would have become more and more federalised with possibly Slovenia breaking away. And if they joined the EU sometime in the mid 2000s they'd probably never break up any further.

So there's a timeline where Yugoslavia could exist. How do you envision that?

Kosovo isn't extraordinarily dangerous, but the issues you point out do exist. You'll feel safe walking down a street in Prishtina, as long as you're aware of potential pickpockets.

I also feel rather safe walking in downtown Groznyy, and I don't even have to worry about pickpockets. What about the Kosovo countryside, or even the seedier parts of the capital's surrounding areas?

I don't know what everyone is worked up about. It is not like this area of Europe every started a world war or anything.

Oh you!

Yugoslavia probably would exist today if Milošević had never come to power in Serbia. obviously much more complicated then that but I'm only going to speak in broad strokes. Probably would have become more and more federalised with possibly Slovenia breaking away. And if they joined the EU sometime in the mid 2000s they'd probably never break up any further.

Milošević was given Green light by Americans to try conquer Croatia. The US Ambasador Warren Zimmerman gave him guarantees to "clean the mess". Without that even Croatia would never been recognised and the whole thing would end something like in Catalonia.

Apparently, sometimes it's best not to listen.

[Gravlen]

Kosovo isn't extraordinarily dangerous, but the issues you point out do exist. You'll feel safe walking down a street in Prishtina, as long as you're aware of potential pickpockets.

I also feel rather safe walking in downtown Groznyy, and I don't even have to worry about pickpockets. What about the Kosovo countryside,

It's lovely, besides a bad habit of dumping garbage and not picking up trash, and the countryside is generally safer.

That said, dangerous driving and traffic might be more of a danger than criminality in the countryside.

or even the seedier parts of the capital's surrounding areas?

Which areas would that be?

[Shofercia]

I also feel rather safe walking in downtown Groznyy, and I don't even have to worry about pickpockets. What about the Kosovo countryside,

It's lovely, besides a bad habit of dumping garbage and not picking up trash, and the countryside is generally safer.

That said, dangerous driving and traffic might be more of a danger than criminality in the countryside.

or even the seedier parts of the capital's surrounding areas?

Which areas would that be?

From the Overseas Security Advisory Council website:

There is moderate risk from crime in Pristina. The lack of economic opportunity influences crime rates in Kosovo. Crimes of opportunity are the most prevalent. Street crimes (e.g. theft, purse snatchings) are somewhat common, especially in Pristina... Criminals sometimes target the expatriate community, assuming that members of the community are affluent. Burglars occasionally target expatriate homes, businesses, and vehicles. In 2018, there was an attempted break-in at an official U.S. residence. Criminals often commit crimes with firearms, as weapons are easy to obtain in Kosovo.

Having never been there, and not really planning to go, I don't know exactly where the seedier areas are at, but when I was in Paris, there was a huge difference between how safe I felt in Monmarte, and how unsafe I felt in Pigalle, although I'll admit that said experience was anecdotal.

[Rojava Free State]

Kosovo is just an all around dangerous place. It doesnt have political problems as much as just the problems you would see in an American inner city. It's very poor and there's alot of drugs and crime. But thats what it's like when your country is literally made up of "civil bloodbath survivors."

Kosovo isn't extraordinarily dangerous, but the issues you point out do exist. You'll feel safe walking down a street in Prishtina, as long as you're aware of potential pickpockets.

All I know is that nearby Albania is pretty violent.

[Slavakino]

I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've been preserved, or at the very least had something like the Velvet Divorce. The claim that it was always going to fall apart was made by the same actors who either supported the WMD in Iraq theory, or did nothing to stop it, so I gotta wonder if Yugoslavia could've genuinely been preserved, or could've been Velvet Divorced, or could've had its power decentralized like Switzerland. Because shit just keeps on happening and happening in that region, and it's fucked up.

Yugoslavia probably would exist today if Milošević had never come to power in Serbia. obviously much more complicated then that but I'm only going to speak in broad strokes. Probably would have become more and more federalised with possibly Slovenia breaking away. And if they joined the EU sometime in the mid 2000s they'd probably never break up any further.

If Milošević wasn't an ultranationalist dick perhaps we would have a different line of history. If Tito assigned a successor Yugo would have stayed together, economic problems could be avoided due to mixed economy and in the 1980s rapid PC adoption to the public

[Slavakino]

Kosovo isn't extraordinarily dangerous, but the issues you point out do exist. You'll feel safe walking down a street in Prishtina, as long as you're aware of potential pickpockets.

All I know is that nearby Albania is pretty violent.

Top gear, Albanian mafia

[Heloin]

Yugoslavia probably would exist today if Milošević had never come to power in Serbia. obviously much more complicated then that but I'm only going to speak in broad strokes. Probably would have become more and more federalised with possibly Slovenia breaking away. And if they joined the EU sometime in the mid 2000s they'd probably never break up any further.

So there's a timeline where Yugoslavia could exist. How do you envision that?

It'd have a pretty unstable 90s and either go down one of two broad paths. Electing itself a strongman would stabilise itself but would continue to antagonise the Macedonians, Slovenians, and Albanians and would probably lead to them breaking away. Or it would federalise and join the EU probably.

[J o J]

[Shofercia]

So there's a timeline where Yugoslavia could exist. How do you envision that?

It'd have a pretty unstable 90s and either go down one of two broad paths. Electing itself a strongman would stabilise itself but would continue to antagonise the Macedonians, Slovenians, and Albanians and would probably lead to them breaking away. Or it would federalise and join the EU probably.

So Federalization, based on the Swiss Model, seems to be the answer.