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Lebanon's Burning: The Lebanese Finanicial/Economic Crisis

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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Lebanon's Burning: The Lebanese Finanicial/Economic Crisis

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:40 am

The Covid-19 virus couldn’t have come at a worse time,” Antoine Khoury, a lighting contractor in Beirut, told me. “Look what it’s doing to the rest of the world, and in Lebanon it came to a country that was already collapsing under its own much deadlier virus.”

Like Covid-19, Lebanon’s other virus is invisible to the naked eye. But as the Lebanese emerge from its coronavirus lockdown, which the government first enforced in March, the symptoms of the other virus are there for all to see.

I don’t need to look more than ten yards from my window in Beirut, where the bistro that opened eight years ago has now closed, just like many other restaurants, cafes, shops and businesses all over town. My local bank is now hidden behind a brutalist cladding of thick steel. Many banks had their façades smashed before the lockdown, when in October 2019 angry protesters attacked them in retribution for the financial meltdown that has brought the country to its knees.

Across in Mar Mikhael, in east Beirut, the big building that houses the state electricity company, Electricité du Liban, bristles with new spiky defences. Power cuts have become increasingly frequent, and there are rumours that these might last as long as 24 hours a day, leaving supply in the hands of the private generator and fuel mafias. The corrupt diversion of billions of dollars from the electricity sector is one of the enduring scandals of the current crisis.

Nobody knows how many thousands more will be joining the already swollen ranks of the unemployed as the Covid-19 lockdown eases. But Khoury, who belongs to a business group which supports the protest movement that broke out last October, believes an estimate of 50 per cent unemployment is optimistic; some expect 70 per cent in the coming months.

“The private sector is dead,” he said. “If it goes on like this, how are they [the government] going to build their GDP if the private sector is not working properly? Where’s the revenue going to come from? Everything will collapse.”

With Lebanon’s Prime Minister Hassan Diab warning that many people may soon not even be able to afford bread, there are real fears of nationwide violence, whether as a continuation of the “revolution” that occurred on 17 October last year or as spontaneous explosions of rage.

There may also be a crime wave. It is no secret that there is between $5bn and $6bn in cash hidden in people’s homes, given the public’s widespread distrust in the banks. The first four months of 2020 has already seen a sharp increase in murder, car theft and burglary.

The cash-strapped, debt-laden Lebanese government has only been able to give about $100 (£80) each to the very poorest members of society. Alarmed about the potential for social unrest in Lebanon, the World Bank is preparing a $500m, two-year “social safety-net” programme aimed initially at the poorest 100,000 families.

“It is worsening day by day, and the needs are much more,” the Bank’s regional director for the Middle East, Saroj Kumar Jha, said. “With 100,000 households, you’re looking at people who are in extreme poverty. The actual number of poor people is much larger.”

Even this temporary fix, which amounts to little more than an emergency bandage, has been slow in coming. Delivery was expected to begin in early August, but has now been pushed back to September.

For something closer to an economic vaccine, Lebanon is looking to the IMF as the primary source of the $20bn that it desperately needs to keep the nation afloat. But that will not come easily or quickly. Lebanon has to demonstrate that it is putting its profligate and unruly house in order. To that end, it finally conceived an economic reform programme which is the basis of negotiations with the IMF that began in May and will last for many months.

There is no guarantee that the government will succeed. Lebanon’s position is drastically weakened by its first hard default in March on a $1.2bn Eurobond debt, which shattered any remaining confidence in the Lebanese banking system.

No results are expected from the IMF negotiations before October at the earliest. The Lebanese negotiating team is divided over the precise figures for the country’s enormous debts and losses, and two of its members have resigned.

Even if an agreement is reached with the IMF, there are other visible pitfalls. The US is currently resisting Iran’s application to the IMF for a $5bn Covid-19 emergency loan. There is no guarantee that Washington won’t likewise prevent a bailout for the Lebanese government, which it believes is dominated by Iran’s Hezbollah allies.

In an interview with a Saudi TV station on 26 June, the US ambassador to Lebanon, Dorothy Shea, openly blamed Hezbollah for the Lebanese government’s failure to tackle the economic crisis. Hezbollah has accused the US of starving Lebanon of dollars, and a sympathetic judge in the southern town of Tyre issued a ruling banning the local media from carrying statements from the ambassador.

The government’s reform programme has been denounced by virtually all of Lebanon’s factional leaders, although the cabinet is supposedly made up of independent technocrats. The main objection is to the thinly disguised haircut – taking a large chunk from the biggest accounts in exchange for shares in the bank – that would hit the top 5 per cent of bank deposits, seen as another devastating blow to investor confidence.

How did Lebanon, once hailed as the Switzerland of the Middle East, reach such desperate straits?

It probably started with independence back in 1943. The country has 18 officially recognised religious sects but the basic divide back then was between Christians and Muslims. In those days, the saying was that Lebanon was like a bird that needed its two wings to fly. Top jobs were divvied up on a sectarian basis. Nothing could happen without consensus.

One major problem now is that since the 1980s, there is a third divide, between Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is no such thing as a bird with three wings. If there were, it couldn’t fly. That is Lebanon today.

The 1975-1990 civil war entrenched the role of sectarian warlords who have dominated politics – and money – ever since. “This confessional regime is very solid, very entrenched,” argues Walid Jumblatt, the self-identified warlord of the Druze minority. “This political class, myself included, is part of this confessional system. The collusion between the leaders on corruption means they can never reform.”

Whoever is in governmental office, the real power lies with a handful of sectarian factional leaders who call the shots. On the Shia side, there are Hezbollah’s chief Hassan Nasrallah and his ally, Nabih Berri, speaker of parliament and leader of the Amal movement. For the Sunnis, Saad al-Hariri, former prime minister and son of the assassinated ex-PM Rafic al-Hariri, is the main figure. The Druze have Jumblatt, while the Maronite Christians are divided between President Michel Aoun with his Free Patriotic Movement, which is allied to Hezbollah, and the Phalangists (Samy Gemayel) and Lebanese Forces (Samir Geagea), who are in opposition.

Together, the sectarian factional leaders have milked the country dry. In the post-civil war reconstruction years of the 1990s, money gushed into Lebanon from donors, from Lebanese expatriates remitting to their families or stashing it in high-yielding banks, and from the regional patrons of the political barons. The banks lent the money to the Central Bank, which lent it to successive governments, which went on spending-sprees as the leaders jostled for their share of the proceeds and stuffed the bureaucracy with loyal followers.

It was a bubble. Nobody was producing anything. But the public spending bonanza went on. By 2019 the country was saddled with an eye-watering debt ratio of 176 per cent of GDP, and a huge balance of payments and fiscal deficits. Corruption was rampant. An estimated $47bn was invested in electricity infrastructure, but the power cuts continued.

Corruption is tolerable when times are good. But not when the cold winds are blowing. In October 2019, when the bankrupt government of Saad al-Hariri tried to impose a tax on free social media platforms, the nation erupted. Across class, sect and regional barriers, unprecedented demonstrations in Beirut, Tripoli and elsewhere, denounced all Lebanon’s political leaders as never before. Hariri and his government resigned, and was replaced by the Diab administration, whose ministers were appointed only by the Hezbollah-led alliance.

The political barons were taken aback by this “revolution”. But they were saved by the coronavirus lockdown, which allowed them to reassert themselves as the patrons of aid and services in their own regions, while the government took advantage of the curfew to break up protest camps in the centres of Beirut and Tripoli.

In Martyrs’ Square, the epicentre of the revolution in downtown Beirut, all that is left of those heady days is a huge clenched fist with “Revolution” written on it, and a scrawled slogan on the statue of the eponymous martyrs, which reads: “Despite Corona, the Revolution remains”.

And so it does, in the shape of dozens of disparate groups which have kept in touch by social media but have failed to produce any structures or leaders. Many of its early enthusiasts had dropped out even before the lockdown. Attempts to stage a big demonstration on 6 June failed disastrously, with only a few thousand turning up and the affair dissolving into violence as protestors were attacked by Shia militants and rock-throwing hooligans clashed with riot police. This had sinister sectarian overtones raising alarming echoes of the civil war.

“We’re way beyond demonstrations,” said a teacher friend and erstwhile “revolution” supporter. “My salary used to be good, now it’s peanuts. Prices have tripled. The banks are holding our life savings hostage. As soon as we can leave the country, we will.” That disillusion is widely shared.

The Lebanese pound is now in free fall against the US dollar, slashing the value of people’s labour, salaries and savings as prices head in the opposite direction. If this were the UK, the pound in your pocket would suddenly have become worth 18p. Bankers say there is no limit to how far the currency could fall. Many are predicting a lost decade, or longer, and nobody knows what will emerge after that.

“Yes, it is existential,” says veteran banker Maurice Sehnaoui, who is advising the government and who is more worried now than during all the earlier wars and invasions.

“The state is sick, the economy is sick, and the banks are in very, very deep shit. Yes, the system could collapse. I am tense all the time. It’s not a question of bombs like we had before. I’m afraid of what will happen after the chaos. This time, I don’t know what is the future. Nobody does. But for sure it will not be the Lebanon you know.”


Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Greed and Death
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Posts: 51914
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:54 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
The Covid-19 virus couldn’t have come at a worse time,” Antoine Khoury, a lighting contractor in Beirut, told me. “Look what it’s doing to the rest of the world, and in Lebanon it came to a country that was already collapsing under its own much deadlier virus.”

Like Covid-19, Lebanon’s other virus is invisible to the naked eye. But as the Lebanese emerge from its coronavirus lockdown, which the government first enforced in March, the symptoms of the other virus are there for all to see.

I don’t need to look more than ten yards from my window in Beirut, where the bistro that opened eight years ago has now closed, just like many other restaurants, cafes, shops and businesses all over town. My local bank is now hidden behind a brutalist cladding of thick steel. Many banks had their façades smashed before the lockdown, when in October 2019 angry protesters attacked them in retribution for the financial meltdown that has brought the country to its knees.

Across in Mar Mikhael, in east Beirut, the big building that houses the state electricity company, Electricité du Liban, bristles with new spiky defences. Power cuts have become increasingly frequent, and there are rumours that these might last as long as 24 hours a day, leaving supply in the hands of the private generator and fuel mafias. The corrupt diversion of billions of dollars from the electricity sector is one of the enduring scandals of the current crisis.

Nobody knows how many thousands more will be joining the already swollen ranks of the unemployed as the Covid-19 lockdown eases. But Khoury, who belongs to a business group which supports the protest movement that broke out last October, believes an estimate of 50 per cent unemployment is optimistic; some expect 70 per cent in the coming months.

“The private sector is dead,” he said. “If it goes on like this, how are they [the government] going to build their GDP if the private sector is not working properly? Where’s the revenue going to come from? Everything will collapse.”

With Lebanon’s Prime Minister Hassan Diab warning that many people may soon not even be able to afford bread, there are real fears of nationwide violence, whether as a continuation of the “revolution” that occurred on 17 October last year or as spontaneous explosions of rage.

There may also be a crime wave. It is no secret that there is between $5bn and $6bn in cash hidden in people’s homes, given the public’s widespread distrust in the banks. The first four months of 2020 has already seen a sharp increase in murder, car theft and burglary.

The cash-strapped, debt-laden Lebanese government has only been able to give about $100 (£80) each to the very poorest members of society. Alarmed about the potential for social unrest in Lebanon, the World Bank is preparing a $500m, two-year “social safety-net” programme aimed initially at the poorest 100,000 families.

“It is worsening day by day, and the needs are much more,” the Bank’s regional director for the Middle East, Saroj Kumar Jha, said. “With 100,000 households, you’re looking at people who are in extreme poverty. The actual number of poor people is much larger.”

Even this temporary fix, which amounts to little more than an emergency bandage, has been slow in coming. Delivery was expected to begin in early August, but has now been pushed back to September.

For something closer to an economic vaccine, Lebanon is looking to the IMF as the primary source of the $20bn that it desperately needs to keep the nation afloat. But that will not come easily or quickly. Lebanon has to demonstrate that it is putting its profligate and unruly house in order. To that end, it finally conceived an economic reform programme which is the basis of negotiations with the IMF that began in May and will last for many months.

There is no guarantee that the government will succeed. Lebanon’s position is drastically weakened by its first hard default in March on a $1.2bn Eurobond debt, which shattered any remaining confidence in the Lebanese banking system.

No results are expected from the IMF negotiations before October at the earliest. The Lebanese negotiating team is divided over the precise figures for the country’s enormous debts and losses, and two of its members have resigned.

Even if an agreement is reached with the IMF, there are other visible pitfalls. The US is currently resisting Iran’s application to the IMF for a $5bn Covid-19 emergency loan. There is no guarantee that Washington won’t likewise prevent a bailout for the Lebanese government, which it believes is dominated by Iran’s Hezbollah allies.

In an interview with a Saudi TV station on 26 June, the US ambassador to Lebanon, Dorothy Shea, openly blamed Hezbollah for the Lebanese government’s failure to tackle the economic crisis. Hezbollah has accused the US of starving Lebanon of dollars, and a sympathetic judge in the southern town of Tyre issued a ruling banning the local media from carrying statements from the ambassador.

The government’s reform programme has been denounced by virtually all of Lebanon’s factional leaders, although the cabinet is supposedly made up of independent technocrats. The main objection is to the thinly disguised haircut – taking a large chunk from the biggest accounts in exchange for shares in the bank – that would hit the top 5 per cent of bank deposits, seen as another devastating blow to investor confidence.

How did Lebanon, once hailed as the Switzerland of the Middle East, reach such desperate straits?

It probably started with independence back in 1943. The country has 18 officially recognised religious sects but the basic divide back then was between Christians and Muslims. In those days, the saying was that Lebanon was like a bird that needed its two wings to fly. Top jobs were divvied up on a sectarian basis. Nothing could happen without consensus.

One major problem now is that since the 1980s, there is a third divide, between Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is no such thing as a bird with three wings. If there were, it couldn’t fly. That is Lebanon today.

The 1975-1990 civil war entrenched the role of sectarian warlords who have dominated politics – and money – ever since. “This confessional regime is very solid, very entrenched,” argues Walid Jumblatt, the self-identified warlord of the Druze minority. “This political class, myself included, is part of this confessional system. The collusion between the leaders on corruption means they can never reform.”

Whoever is in governmental office, the real power lies with a handful of sectarian factional leaders who call the shots. On the Shia side, there are Hezbollah’s chief Hassan Nasrallah and his ally, Nabih Berri, speaker of parliament and leader of the Amal movement. For the Sunnis, Saad al-Hariri, former prime minister and son of the assassinated ex-PM Rafic al-Hariri, is the main figure. The Druze have Jumblatt, while the Maronite Christians are divided between President Michel Aoun with his Free Patriotic Movement, which is allied to Hezbollah, and the Phalangists (Samy Gemayel) and Lebanese Forces (Samir Geagea), who are in opposition.

Together, the sectarian factional leaders have milked the country dry. In the post-civil war reconstruction years of the 1990s, money gushed into Lebanon from donors, from Lebanese expatriates remitting to their families or stashing it in high-yielding banks, and from the regional patrons of the political barons. The banks lent the money to the Central Bank, which lent it to successive governments, which went on spending-sprees as the leaders jostled for their share of the proceeds and stuffed the bureaucracy with loyal followers.

It was a bubble. Nobody was producing anything. But the public spending bonanza went on. By 2019 the country was saddled with an eye-watering debt ratio of 176 per cent of GDP, and a huge balance of payments and fiscal deficits. Corruption was rampant. An estimated $47bn was invested in electricity infrastructure, but the power cuts continued.

Corruption is tolerable when times are good. But not when the cold winds are blowing. In October 2019, when the bankrupt government of Saad al-Hariri tried to impose a tax on free social media platforms, the nation erupted. Across class, sect and regional barriers, unprecedented demonstrations in Beirut, Tripoli and elsewhere, denounced all Lebanon’s political leaders as never before. Hariri and his government resigned, and was replaced by the Diab administration, whose ministers were appointed only by the Hezbollah-led alliance.

The political barons were taken aback by this “revolution”. But they were saved by the coronavirus lockdown, which allowed them to reassert themselves as the patrons of aid and services in their own regions, while the government took advantage of the curfew to break up protest camps in the centres of Beirut and Tripoli.

In Martyrs’ Square, the epicentre of the revolution in downtown Beirut, all that is left of those heady days is a huge clenched fist with “Revolution” written on it, and a scrawled slogan on the statue of the eponymous martyrs, which reads: “Despite Corona, the Revolution remains”.

And so it does, in the shape of dozens of disparate groups which have kept in touch by social media but have failed to produce any structures or leaders. Many of its early enthusiasts had dropped out even before the lockdown. Attempts to stage a big demonstration on 6 June failed disastrously, with only a few thousand turning up and the affair dissolving into violence as protestors were attacked by Shia militants and rock-throwing hooligans clashed with riot police. This had sinister sectarian overtones raising alarming echoes of the civil war.

“We’re way beyond demonstrations,” said a teacher friend and erstwhile “revolution” supporter. “My salary used to be good, now it’s peanuts. Prices have tripled. The banks are holding our life savings hostage. As soon as we can leave the country, we will.” That disillusion is widely shared.

The Lebanese pound is now in free fall against the US dollar, slashing the value of people’s labour, salaries and savings as prices head in the opposite direction. If this were the UK, the pound in your pocket would suddenly have become worth 18p. Bankers say there is no limit to how far the currency could fall. Many are predicting a lost decade, or longer, and nobody knows what will emerge after that.

“Yes, it is existential,” says veteran banker Maurice Sehnaoui, who is advising the government and who is more worried now than during all the earlier wars and invasions.

“The state is sick, the economy is sick, and the banks are in very, very deep shit. Yes, the system could collapse. I am tense all the time. It’s not a question of bombs like we had before. I’m afraid of what will happen after the chaos. This time, I don’t know what is the future. Nobody does. But for sure it will not be the Lebanon you know.”

Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?


Israel might help as having an unstable neighbor is not good for them. They might even get Lebanon to kick out Hezbollah.
Last edited by Greed and Death on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Thermodolia
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Posts: 59407
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:54 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?


Israel might help as having an unstable neighbor is not good for them. They might even get Lebanon to kick out Hezbollah.

Israel will most definitely enjoy a new pro israeli neighbor
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:02 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?


Israel might help as having an unstable neighbor is not good for them. They might even get Lebanon to kick out Hezbollah.


Doubt it. If there's one thing i know, it's that Israel likes destabilizing neighboring nations so no one gets enough power to seriously challenge it. They aided syrian rebels and bombed assad several times. Also Hezbollah is as Lebanese as right wing terror militias are American so i don't see them going away anytime soon.

I'm hoping against hope that Israel is too distracted by the west Bank to get involved, because we all remember the last time they "got involved."
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 19432
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:04 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
Israel might help as having an unstable neighbor is not good for them. They might even get Lebanon to kick out Hezbollah.

Israel will most definitely enjoy a new pro israeli neighbor


They're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there. Public opinion polling shows that over 90% of Lebanese people have an unfavorable opinion of Jews.

Not Israel. Jews. How are you gonna get them to side with you? You gotta convince them first that being Jewish is okay before you can convince them that Israel is okay.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Insaanistan
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Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaanistan » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:11 am

ايوه! الثورة فلبنان!
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته
May the peace and blessings of God be with you!
Hello brother (or sister),
I’m an unapologetic Muslim and overall peaceful person.
If you have any questions about Islam, or want to debate in a civil manner, I’m open to it.
Peace and Love.

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Insaanistan
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Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaanistan » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:15 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Israel will most definitely enjoy a new pro israeli neighbor


They're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there. Public opinion polling shows that over 90% of Lebanese people have an unfavorable opinion of Jews.

Not Israel. Jews. How are you gonna get them to side with you? You gotta convince them first that being Jewish is okay before you can convince them that Israel is okay.


Do you have a source for that? Because from what I’ve seen and heard, Lebanese people don’t hate Jews, but happen to greatly dislike a certain “country” the bombs the heck out of their country with bombs they let their children sign, displaces millions of their cousins, and refuses to apologize or even sympathize.
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته
May the peace and blessings of God be with you!
Hello brother (or sister),
I’m an unapologetic Muslim and overall peaceful person.
If you have any questions about Islam, or want to debate in a civil manner, I’m open to it.
Peace and Love.

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59407
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:17 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Israel will most definitely enjoy a new pro israeli neighbor


They're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there. Public opinion polling shows that over 90% of Lebanese people have an unfavorable opinion of Jews.

Not Israel. Jews. How are you gonna get them to side with you? You gotta convince them first that being Jewish is okay before you can convince them that Israel is okay.

When Israel saves them from the brink it’s not hard for people to go oh hey israel is great while still bashing Jews. I mean we have people here in the US who say that Israel is great while Jews are less so because they aren’t Christian
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

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Picairn
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Posts: 587
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Picairn » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:27 am

Lebanon's history leading up to the financial crisis sounds like a textbook case of Why Nations Fail. Best book I've ever read.
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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:28 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
They're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there. Public opinion polling shows that over 90% of Lebanese people have an unfavorable opinion of Jews.

Not Israel. Jews. How are you gonna get them to side with you? You gotta convince them first that being Jewish is okay before you can convince them that Israel is okay.

When Israel saves them from the brink it’s not hard for people to go oh hey israel is great while still bashing Jews. I mean we have people here in the US who say that Israel is great while Jews are less so because they aren’t Christian


Israel ain't gonna save them. Knowing Israel, they'll happily kick Lebanon down that sewer pipe because its one less Arab nation that poses a risk to them.

As a friend of mine once said when we passed an Arab wedding and saw people waiting outside to get in, "Israel must be afraid now. The arabs got in line." Israel fears stability in the arab world. With stability, it's harder for them to pull their bullshit.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:29 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
They're gonna be fighting an uphill battle there. Public opinion polling shows that over 90% of Lebanese people have an unfavorable opinion of Jews.

Not Israel. Jews. How are you gonna get them to side with you? You gotta convince them first that being Jewish is okay before you can convince them that Israel is okay.


Do you have a source for that? Because from what I’ve seen and heard, Lebanese people don’t hate Jews, but happen to greatly dislike a certain “country” the bombs the heck out of their country with bombs they let their children sign, displaces millions of their cousins, and refuses to apologize or even sympathize.


Unfavorable opinion. Not all out hate. I have an unfavorable opinion of people who like 5 seconds of summer but I don't hate them and a couple friends of mine like them. And I never said the dislike of Jews didn't come from a certain country kicking a man who's down.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:33 am

Okay so that poll I got the numbers from was from the ADL originally (the guys who think everything is antisemitic) so we're just gonna disregard that for now.

What I do know is Lebanese people won't be too fond of a country that literally bombs them every five years. Oh and the one that pulled a bitch move and invaded them while they were caught in a civil war and couldn't defend themselves from intrusion.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:33 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:When Israel saves them from the brink it’s not hard for people to go oh hey israel is great while still bashing Jews. I mean we have people here in the US who say that Israel is great while Jews are less so because they aren’t Christian


Israel ain't gonna save them. Knowing Israel, they'll happily kick Lebanon down that sewer pipe because its one less Arab nation that poses a risk to them.

As a friend of mine once said when we passed an Arab wedding and saw people waiting outside to get in, "Israel must be afraid now. The arabs got in line." Israel fears stability in the arab world. With stability, it's harder for them to pull their bullshit.

That’s very true. If the nations of the Islamic world, or really just he greater Arab world, got their acts together, they could actually at least force Israel to make concessions. But instead, the governments go “Let’s ignore the plight of our religious and/or ethnic brethren in Filasteen.”
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته
May the peace and blessings of God be with you!
Hello brother (or sister),
I’m an unapologetic Muslim and overall peaceful person.
If you have any questions about Islam, or want to debate in a civil manner, I’m open to it.
Peace and Love.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Israel ain't gonna save them. Knowing Israel, they'll happily kick Lebanon down that sewer pipe because its one less Arab nation that poses a risk to them.

As a friend of mine once said when we passed an Arab wedding and saw people waiting outside to get in, "Israel must be afraid now. The arabs got in line." Israel fears stability in the arab world. With stability, it's harder for them to pull their bullshit.

That’s very true. If the nations of the Islamic world, or really just he greater Arab world, got their acts together, they could actually at least force Israel to make concessions. But instead, the governments go “Let’s ignore the plight of our religious and/or ethnic brethren in Filasteen.”


Saudi Arabia is allied with Israel. Jordan was basically asked by us to play nice with them and offered some bribes, I mean foreign aid. Lebanon is divided and still reeling from its civil war and Syria is a war zone. Israel is probably loving that setup. They have no reason to fix these issues and every reason to make them ten times worse, which they've already been doing in Syria.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:36 am

Man we're probably about to get a huge influx of homeless lebanese people in my area. We already got a huge influx of Syrian refugees here and this happened after we got a huge influx of Assyrians in 2004 and Albanians in 1998.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Ace Land State
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Postby Ace Land State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:38 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
The Covid-19 virus couldn’t have come at a worse time,” Antoine Khoury, a lighting contractor in Beirut, told me. “Look what it’s doing to the rest of the world, and in Lebanon it came to a country that was already collapsing under its own much deadlier virus.”

Like Covid-19, Lebanon’s other virus is invisible to the naked eye. But as the Lebanese emerge from its coronavirus lockdown, which the government first enforced in March, the symptoms of the other virus are there for all to see.

I don’t need to look more than ten yards from my window in Beirut, where the bistro that opened eight years ago has now closed, just like many other restaurants, cafes, shops and businesses all over town. My local bank is now hidden behind a brutalist cladding of thick steel. Many banks had their façades smashed before the lockdown, when in October 2019 angry protesters attacked them in retribution for the financial meltdown that has brought the country to its knees.

Across in Mar Mikhael, in east Beirut, the big building that houses the state electricity company, Electricité du Liban, bristles with new spiky defences. Power cuts have become increasingly frequent, and there are rumours that these might last as long as 24 hours a day, leaving supply in the hands of the private generator and fuel mafias. The corrupt diversion of billions of dollars from the electricity sector is one of the enduring scandals of the current crisis.

Nobody knows how many thousands more will be joining the already swollen ranks of the unemployed as the Covid-19 lockdown eases. But Khoury, who belongs to a business group which supports the protest movement that broke out last October, believes an estimate of 50 per cent unemployment is optimistic; some expect 70 per cent in the coming months.

“The private sector is dead,” he said. “If it goes on like this, how are they [the government] going to build their GDP if the private sector is not working properly? Where’s the revenue going to come from? Everything will collapse.”

With Lebanon’s Prime Minister Hassan Diab warning that many people may soon not even be able to afford bread, there are real fears of nationwide violence, whether as a continuation of the “revolution” that occurred on 17 October last year or as spontaneous explosions of rage.

There may also be a crime wave. It is no secret that there is between $5bn and $6bn in cash hidden in people’s homes, given the public’s widespread distrust in the banks. The first four months of 2020 has already seen a sharp increase in murder, car theft and burglary.

The cash-strapped, debt-laden Lebanese government has only been able to give about $100 (£80) each to the very poorest members of society. Alarmed about the potential for social unrest in Lebanon, the World Bank is preparing a $500m, two-year “social safety-net” programme aimed initially at the poorest 100,000 families.

“It is worsening day by day, and the needs are much more,” the Bank’s regional director for the Middle East, Saroj Kumar Jha, said. “With 100,000 households, you’re looking at people who are in extreme poverty. The actual number of poor people is much larger.”

Even this temporary fix, which amounts to little more than an emergency bandage, has been slow in coming. Delivery was expected to begin in early August, but has now been pushed back to September.

For something closer to an economic vaccine, Lebanon is looking to the IMF as the primary source of the $20bn that it desperately needs to keep the nation afloat. But that will not come easily or quickly. Lebanon has to demonstrate that it is putting its profligate and unruly house in order. To that end, it finally conceived an economic reform programme which is the basis of negotiations with the IMF that began in May and will last for many months.

There is no guarantee that the government will succeed. Lebanon’s position is drastically weakened by its first hard default in March on a $1.2bn Eurobond debt, which shattered any remaining confidence in the Lebanese banking system.

No results are expected from the IMF negotiations before October at the earliest. The Lebanese negotiating team is divided over the precise figures for the country’s enormous debts and losses, and two of its members have resigned.

Even if an agreement is reached with the IMF, there are other visible pitfalls. The US is currently resisting Iran’s application to the IMF for a $5bn Covid-19 emergency loan. There is no guarantee that Washington won’t likewise prevent a bailout for the Lebanese government, which it believes is dominated by Iran’s Hezbollah allies.

In an interview with a Saudi TV station on 26 June, the US ambassador to Lebanon, Dorothy Shea, openly blamed Hezbollah for the Lebanese government’s failure to tackle the economic crisis. Hezbollah has accused the US of starving Lebanon of dollars, and a sympathetic judge in the southern town of Tyre issued a ruling banning the local media from carrying statements from the ambassador.

The government’s reform programme has been denounced by virtually all of Lebanon’s factional leaders, although the cabinet is supposedly made up of independent technocrats. The main objection is to the thinly disguised haircut – taking a large chunk from the biggest accounts in exchange for shares in the bank – that would hit the top 5 per cent of bank deposits, seen as another devastating blow to investor confidence.

How did Lebanon, once hailed as the Switzerland of the Middle East, reach such desperate straits?

It probably started with independence back in 1943. The country has 18 officially recognised religious sects but the basic divide back then was between Christians and Muslims. In those days, the saying was that Lebanon was like a bird that needed its two wings to fly. Top jobs were divvied up on a sectarian basis. Nothing could happen without consensus.

One major problem now is that since the 1980s, there is a third divide, between Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is no such thing as a bird with three wings. If there were, it couldn’t fly. That is Lebanon today.

The 1975-1990 civil war entrenched the role of sectarian warlords who have dominated politics – and money – ever since. “This confessional regime is very solid, very entrenched,” argues Walid Jumblatt, the self-identified warlord of the Druze minority. “This political class, myself included, is part of this confessional system. The collusion between the leaders on corruption means they can never reform.”

Whoever is in governmental office, the real power lies with a handful of sectarian factional leaders who call the shots. On the Shia side, there are Hezbollah’s chief Hassan Nasrallah and his ally, Nabih Berri, speaker of parliament and leader of the Amal movement. For the Sunnis, Saad al-Hariri, former prime minister and son of the assassinated ex-PM Rafic al-Hariri, is the main figure. The Druze have Jumblatt, while the Maronite Christians are divided between President Michel Aoun with his Free Patriotic Movement, which is allied to Hezbollah, and the Phalangists (Samy Gemayel) and Lebanese Forces (Samir Geagea), who are in opposition.

Together, the sectarian factional leaders have milked the country dry. In the post-civil war reconstruction years of the 1990s, money gushed into Lebanon from donors, from Lebanese expatriates remitting to their families or stashing it in high-yielding banks, and from the regional patrons of the political barons. The banks lent the money to the Central Bank, which lent it to successive governments, which went on spending-sprees as the leaders jostled for their share of the proceeds and stuffed the bureaucracy with loyal followers.

It was a bubble. Nobody was producing anything. But the public spending bonanza went on. By 2019 the country was saddled with an eye-watering debt ratio of 176 per cent of GDP, and a huge balance of payments and fiscal deficits. Corruption was rampant. An estimated $47bn was invested in electricity infrastructure, but the power cuts continued.

Corruption is tolerable when times are good. But not when the cold winds are blowing. In October 2019, when the bankrupt government of Saad al-Hariri tried to impose a tax on free social media platforms, the nation erupted. Across class, sect and regional barriers, unprecedented demonstrations in Beirut, Tripoli and elsewhere, denounced all Lebanon’s political leaders as never before. Hariri and his government resigned, and was replaced by the Diab administration, whose ministers were appointed only by the Hezbollah-led alliance.

The political barons were taken aback by this “revolution”. But they were saved by the coronavirus lockdown, which allowed them to reassert themselves as the patrons of aid and services in their own regions, while the government took advantage of the curfew to break up protest camps in the centres of Beirut and Tripoli.

In Martyrs’ Square, the epicentre of the revolution in downtown Beirut, all that is left of those heady days is a huge clenched fist with “Revolution” written on it, and a scrawled slogan on the statue of the eponymous martyrs, which reads: “Despite Corona, the Revolution remains”.

And so it does, in the shape of dozens of disparate groups which have kept in touch by social media but have failed to produce any structures or leaders. Many of its early enthusiasts had dropped out even before the lockdown. Attempts to stage a big demonstration on 6 June failed disastrously, with only a few thousand turning up and the affair dissolving into violence as protestors were attacked by Shia militants and rock-throwing hooligans clashed with riot police. This had sinister sectarian overtones raising alarming echoes of the civil war.

“We’re way beyond demonstrations,” said a teacher friend and erstwhile “revolution” supporter. “My salary used to be good, now it’s peanuts. Prices have tripled. The banks are holding our life savings hostage. As soon as we can leave the country, we will.” That disillusion is widely shared.

The Lebanese pound is now in free fall against the US dollar, slashing the value of people’s labour, salaries and savings as prices head in the opposite direction. If this were the UK, the pound in your pocket would suddenly have become worth 18p. Bankers say there is no limit to how far the currency could fall. Many are predicting a lost decade, or longer, and nobody knows what will emerge after that.

“Yes, it is existential,” says veteran banker Maurice Sehnaoui, who is advising the government and who is more worried now than during all the earlier wars and invasions.

“The state is sick, the economy is sick, and the banks are in very, very deep shit. Yes, the system could collapse. I am tense all the time. It’s not a question of bombs like we had before. I’m afraid of what will happen after the chaos. This time, I don’t know what is the future. Nobody does. But for sure it will not be the Lebanon you know.”


Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?

Note: I was going to post with Greater Miami Shores, but since I was on this nation I accidentally posted with this nation. I was going to delete my post and post it with Greater Miami Shores, but it was too late as another nation posted before I could delete it.

Sounds like the evil virus crisis is the problem, yes, the virus is evil because it kills people, the virus is evil because it causes all these economic problems.
Last edited by Ace Land State on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:38 am

Yet another crisis to add into the pile of "shit fucked in 2020."
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:45 am

Ace Land State wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Well it looks like Lebanon is collapsing yall. The military can no longer feed meat to its troops cause meat costs too much and there are shortages and many Lebanese people are planning on fleeing the country. It looks like the mismanagement of the nation by its corporations, robber barron warlords and banks finally did it in, and this is the end of Lebanon. I remember when this crisis started in late 2019 and now it seems 10 times as dire as before, and the new "technocrat" government is still ineffective and run from behind the scenes by sectarians. The country is falling apart and no one seems to be able to stop it. Can anyone save Lebanon at this point? If so who gonna do it?

Note: I was going to post with Greater Miami Shores, but since I was on this nation I accidentally posted with this nation. I was going to delete my post and post it with Greater Miami Shores, but it was too late as another nation posted before I could delete it.

Sounds like the evil virus crisis is the problem, yes, the virus is evil because it kills people, the virus is evil because it causes all these economic problems.


For shit's sake Miami, will you stop calling the virus evil? Evil is a choice and the virus doesn't even have a brain. Its no more evil than a man who eats chicken. Its just doing what it does best.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:45 am

Andsed wrote:Yet another crisis to add into the pile of "shit fucked in 2020."


What if 2020 is just the trailer for 2021? Food for thought (and nightmare fuel).
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Ace Land State
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Founded: Mar 05, 2006
Corporate Bordello

Postby Ace Land State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:47 am

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ace Land State wrote:Note: I was going to post with Greater Miami Shores, but since I was on this nation I accidentally posted with this nation. I was going to delete my post and post it with Greater Miami Shores, but it was too late as another nation posted before I could delete it.

Sounds like the evil virus crisis is the problem, yes, the virus is evil because it kills people, the virus is evil because it causes all these economic problems.


For shit's sake Miami, will you stop calling the virus evil? Evil is a choice and the virus doesn't even have a brain. Its no more evil than a man who eats chicken. Its just doing what it does best.

I have explained my logical reasons why I call it the evil virus crisis, I have not broken any NS rules, so I will continue to do so. Most or part of your OP Post also blames this crisis on the virus.

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Insaanistan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaanistan » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:49 am

Hey Rojava, two questions:
1. Could you say that the protests in Libnan are sectarian or non-sectarian?
2. Un-related to the topic, but still ver important, if you had to choose one, what you you chose, knafeh (chnafeh) or māmul?
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته
May the peace and blessings of God be with you!
Hello brother (or sister),
I’m an unapologetic Muslim and overall peaceful person.
If you have any questions about Islam, or want to debate in a civil manner, I’m open to it.
Peace and Love.

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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:52 am

Insaanistan wrote:Hey Rojava, two questions:
1. Could you say that the protests in Libnan are sectarian or non-sectarian?
2. Un-related to the topic, but still ver important, if you had to choose one, what you you chose, knafeh (chnafeh) or māmul?


Knafeh for sure and as for the first, the lebanon protests are anti sectarian. They include people from all religions and ethnicities and are anti government and anti elite.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Insaanistan
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Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaanistan » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:54 am

Ace Land State wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
For shit's sake Miami, will you stop calling the virus evil? Evil is a choice and the virus doesn't even have a brain. Its no more evil than a man who eats chicken. Its just doing what it does best.

I have explained my logical reasons why I call it the evil virus crisis, I have not broken any NS rules, so I will continue to do so. Most or part of your OP Post also blames this crisis on the virus.


The virus made things worse (ie massive inflation) but the crisis (corruption, anger at Israel, the wish to get rid of or reform the Sectarian system that divides power between the different religions, offshoots and sects) was already there. There are also from what I’ve heard some BLM protests. I wonder what Afro-Arab Lebanese, Afro-Lebanese people and Palestinian and Syrian refugees think about when they see “brown” and “white” Lebanese Arabs protesting oppression of black people in America.
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركته
May the peace and blessings of God be with you!
Hello brother (or sister),
I’m an unapologetic Muslim and overall peaceful person.
If you have any questions about Islam, or want to debate in a civil manner, I’m open to it.
Peace and Love.

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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:39 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Ace Land State wrote:I have explained my logical reasons why I call it the evil virus crisis, I have not broken any NS rules, so I will continue to do so. Most or part of your OP Post also blames this crisis on the virus.


The virus made things worse (ie massive inflation) but the crisis (corruption, anger at Israel, the wish to get rid of or reform the Sectarian system that divides power between the different religions, offshoots and sects) was already there. There are also from what I’ve heard some BLM protests. I wonder what Afro-Arab Lebanese, Afro-Lebanese people and Palestinian and Syrian refugees think about when they see “brown” and “white” Lebanese Arabs protesting oppression of black people in America.


All Lebanese are brown in America. We're weird like that these days.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:00 pm

Perhaps the could go socialist? Wouldn't say no to red Leb.
Everything is intertwinkled

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