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Kosovo president indicted as war criminal, resists

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Risottia
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Kosovo president indicted as war criminal, resists

Postby Risottia » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:23 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53201476

Surprise surprise, after more than 20 years turns out that the KLA weren't exactly a band of poor victims.
Of course, the very same country/breakaway province that once whined about Serbia non giving up its politicians to the Hague court now whines about the evil pro-Serbian Hague court that wants to try its president for war crimes, boo hoo.

Can one be more hypocritical? Can we just split up Kosovo in a Serbian part, an Albanian part, and be done with this useless "country" whose only purpose is hosting criminals?
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East Blepia
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Postby East Blepia » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 am

Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:37 am

Kosovo is Serbia.
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Vivolkha
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Postby Vivolkha » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:51 am

Having superficial knownledge about Kosovar politics, this doesn't come across as a surprise to me. Not that uncommon to the ex-Yugoslav countries either, The reaction to it kinda is though. Face facts, Kosovo is no longer Serbia.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:53 am

East Blepia wrote:Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.


Why the hell should it be part of serbia? Most of its people aren't even Serbs.
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Merther
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Postby Merther » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:02 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
East Blepia wrote:Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.


Why the hell should it be part of serbia? Most of its people aren't even Serbs.


Serbia has a tendency to claim lands that aren't populated by Serbs. The only exception is Montenegro.

There's this famous recorded dialogue between a Serbian officer and the mayor of a Bosnian town at the frontier between the two countries, during the war in Bosnia. The officer asks for the mayor to surrender the town, and declare its loyalty to Yougoslavia. To that the mayor answers : "To what yougoslavia ? Serboslavia ?"

Pretty much the Serbian foreign policies in a nutshell.

Edit : Here's the link to the vid in question, turn on ENG subtitles : https://youtu.be/FaY1KihY63k
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Oneid
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Postby Oneid » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:05 pm

Vivolkha wrote:Having superficial knownledge about Kosovar politics, this doesn't come across as a surprise to me. Not that uncommon to the ex-Yugoslav countries either, The reaction to it kinda is though. Face facts, Kosovo is no longer Serbia.


Kosovo is Serbia
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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:08 pm

Risottia wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53201476

Surprise surprise, after more than 20 years turns out that the KLA weren't exactly a band of poor victims.
Of course, the very same country/breakaway province that once whined about Serbia non giving up its politicians to the Hague court now whines about the evil pro-Serbian Hague court that wants to try its president for war crimes, boo hoo.

Can one be more hypocritical? Can we just split up Kosovo in a Serbian part, an Albanian part, and be done with this useless "country" whose only purpose is hosting criminals?

Why aren't you providing a more up-to-date source?

Kosovo President Hashim Thaci will go to The Hague on Monday to be interviewed by international war crimes prosecutors.

Thaci was a top commander of the Kosovo Liberation Army, which fought a guerrilla war for independence from Serbia in the late 1990s. He announced his appearance on his Facebook page on Wednesday.

A special international court has indicted Thaci and other former fighters for alleged war crimes by the KLA, including murder, kidnapping and torture. Thaci has denied the charges.

“While my compatriots as well as me will face international justice with dignity and integrity, I call upon you to stand united in dealing with the challenges that our country is facing,” he said on Facebook.

A pretrial judge in the Kosovo Specialist Chambers has yet to decide whether to put Thaci and the others on trial or throw out the case.

Thaci has told Kosovars that if he is tried, he will “will immediately resign as your president and face the accusations.”

https://www.voanews.com/europe/war-crimes-prosecutors-interview-kosovo-presidentWar%20Crimes%20Prosecutors%20to%20Interview%20Kosovo%20President

And then you can explain where the hypocricy is...
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:09 pm

East Blepia wrote:Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.


>depleted uranium bombing

You do realise that isn't a thing, right?
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Middle Barael
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Postby Middle Barael » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:13 pm

The simplest solution I think is just to split everything based on religion and culture: Serbia for the ethnic Serbs and the Eastern Orthodox, Bosnia for the ethnic Bosniaks and the Muslims, Croatia for the ethnic Croats and the Croatians, Albania for the ethnic Albanians (Muslim and also Christian I guess), Slovenia for the ethnic Slovenes, Montenegro for the ethnic Montenegrins, and North Macedonia for the ethnic Macedonians.

“Kosovo” would be mostly part of Albania (since Kosovo is ~80% Albanian ethnically speaking), although areas with a high density of Serbs would be part of Serbia.

Modern “Bosnia and Herzegovina” (including the “Republica Srpska”) would be split 3 ways: The bulk of the country, mainly the places that are majority Bosniak Muslim, would be part of Bosnia, which would be intended as a state for Bosniak Muslims. The self-proclaimed “Republica Srpska” (the areas of Bosnia which the Serbian-backed militias retained control of during the 1995 war) would either become an independent state, or better yet rejoin Serbia, as they are mostly inhabited by Orthodox Serbs. Finally, the areas that are mostly Croat and/or mostly Catholic would rejoin Croatia.

Montenegro would still exist, but areas that are mostly Serbs as opposed to Montenegrins, and also areas that are mostly part of the Serbian Orthodox Church as opposed to the self-proclaimed Montenegrin Orthodox Church, would be returned to Serbia.

This will change the borders a lot and could cause further tensions, but hopefully by giving each nation/religion a state there’ll be less conflict.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:13 pm

Vassenor wrote:
East Blepia wrote:Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.


>depleted uranium bombing

You do realise that isn't a thing, right?

Actually it is. Most if not all american and quite a bit of soviet AP munitions have depleted uranium as part of their payload because it is a very dense heavy metal that makes for good armor penetration. So anywhere OTAN drops bombs is going to end up contaminated. You have to remember this stuff was designed in a time when everyone expected the next war to be atomic anyway. That's the same justification for why many tanks including the M1 abrams have DU in their armor.
Last edited by Purpelia on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
>depleted uranium bombing

You do realise that isn't a thing, right?

Actually it is. Most if not all american and quite a bit of soviet AP munitions have depleted uranium as part of their payload because it is a very dense heavy metal that makes for good armor penetration. So anywhere OTAN drops bombs is going to end up contaminated. You have to remember this stuff was designed in a time when everyone expected the next war to be atomic anyway. That's the same justification for why many tanks have DU in their armor.


And what NATO air-dropped weapons use DU penetrators? Last time I checked it was only really used for tank shells and aircraft cannon rounds intended for tank hunting.

For the record:

UNEP tests found no evidence of harm by depleted uranium weapons, even among cleanup workers


Cited Source: Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro: Post-Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Last edited by Vassenor on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:24 pm

Vassenor wrote:
East Blepia wrote:Kosovo is Serbia, both legally and by right. Kosovo would not be separate from Serbia if it were not for the NATO invasion (complete with depleted uranium bombing). It is occupied by an illegal drug-trading regime.


>depleted uranium bombing

You do realise that isn't a thing, right?


Not technically in the bombs but definitely in the munitions Vassenor. The Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II "Warthog" close air support aircraft has a 30mm rotary cannon capable of firing Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions that are utilized in anti-armor (anti-everything) roles.

According to sources, between 10 to 15 tons of DU was used in the 1999 Bombing of Yugloslavia so... *shrug*

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:29 pm

The Chuck wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
>depleted uranium bombing

You do realise that isn't a thing, right?


Not technically in the bombs but definitely in the munitions Vassenor. The Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II "Warthog" close air support aircraft has a 30mm rotary cannon capable of firing Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions that are utilized in anti-armor (anti-everything) roles.

According to sources, between 10 to 15 tons of DU was used in the 1999 Bombing of Yugloslavia so... *shrug*

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Vassenor wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Actually it is. Most if not all american and quite a bit of soviet AP munitions have depleted uranium as part of their payload because it is a very dense heavy metal that makes for good armor penetration. So anywhere OTAN drops bombs is going to end up contaminated. You have to remember this stuff was designed in a time when everyone expected the next war to be atomic anyway. That's the same justification for why many tanks have DU in their armor.


And what NATO air-dropped weapons use DU penetrators? Last time I checked it was only really used for tank shells and aircraft cannon rounds intended for tank hunting.

For the record:

UNEP tests found no evidence of harm by depleted uranium weapons, even among cleanup workers


Cited Source: Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro: Post-Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia


So yes, I already addressed that point.
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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:30 pm

Minor edit, was reminded that some conventional thermobaric bombs do indeed come with DU packed in them for enhanced blasts. So they are right in saying that Depleted Uranium bombing campaigns did happen.
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:35 pm

The Chuck wrote:Minor edit, was reminded that some conventional thermobaric bombs do indeed come with DU packed in them for enhanced blasts. So they are right in saying that Depleted Uranium bombing campaigns did happen.


So which such bombs were used during the conflict?
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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:43 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The Chuck wrote:Minor edit, was reminded that some conventional thermobaric bombs do indeed come with DU packed in them for enhanced blasts. So they are right in saying that Depleted Uranium bombing campaigns did happen.


So which such bombs were used during the conflict?


http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/news/scother1.htm

https://www.newsweek.com/how-us-made-us ... ine-443732

Tomahawk cruise missiles with DU penetrators, 30mm DU penetrator rounds for the A-10, and other unspecified aerial dropped bombs. I wouldn't know what specific models since that's something the DOD doesn't really specify but it's pretty clear that if 10 - 15 tons of this stuff was used in the Balkans, that it wasn't all from 30mm shells.
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Postby Luziyca » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 pm

Vivolkha wrote:Having superficial knownledge about Kosovar politics, this doesn't come across as a surprise to me. Not that uncommon to the ex-Yugoslav countries either, The reaction to it kinda is though. Face facts, Kosovo is no longer Serbia.

Definitely.

The only way Kosovo was ever part of Serbia is if we assumed that all the people in Kosovo were Serbs who were Albanianized under Tito, which is incredibly ludicrous.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:51 pm

Luziyca wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:Having superficial knownledge about Kosovar politics, this doesn't come across as a surprise to me. Not that uncommon to the ex-Yugoslav countries either, The reaction to it kinda is though. Face facts, Kosovo is no longer Serbia.

Definitely.

The only way Kosovo was ever part of Serbia is if we assumed that all the people in Kosovo were Serbs who were Albanianized under Tito, which is incredibly ludicrous.


Serbia strangely acts very similar to Turkey, a country they're not fond of.

Basically they kill anyone who isn't them, and occupy land that they don't really live in.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:55 pm

Vassenor wrote:And what NATO air-dropped weapons use DU penetrators? Last time I checked it was only really used for tank shells and aircraft cannon rounds intended for tank hunting.

Also general munitions really. You'd be surprised. Anything shot at a bunker, tank, mobile AA or any other military target harder than a soft top truck is likely to have DU in it.

For the record:

UNEP tests found no evidence of harm by depleted uranium weapons, even among cleanup workers


Cited Source: Depleted Uranium in Serbia and Montenegro: Post-Conflict Environmental Assessment in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

As much as I would like to point the obvious flaw in citing a source with .us in the name as proof that the US did no wrong there is also the fact that realistically unless you get DU fragments lodging inside your body (which might present higher concerns to your health than cancer or heavy metal toxicity 20 years from now) or they end up in the water supply or something DU isn't really that toxic. Like it's nasty if you are say in a tank that's set on fire and you breathe it in or if it lands in a water reservoir or something. If you generally ingest it or inject it or get it into your body or if you like carry it in your pocket. But ultimately it's just a slightly radioactive toxic heavy metal. The fact it's called Uranium does not mean it's going to turn everything it touches into Chernobyl. And like if a DU bomb explodes in your back yard nobody is going to be poisoned the next village over. And thus conversely not finding any evidence of mass toxicity isn't really proof of anything.
Last edited by Purpelia on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Anatoliyanskiy
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Postby Anatoliyanskiy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:56 pm

Middle Barael wrote:The simplest solution I think is just to split everything based on religion and culture: Serbia for the ethnic Serbs and the Eastern Orthodox, Bosnia for the ethnic Bosniaks and the Muslims, Croatia for the ethnic Croats and the Croatians, Albania for the ethnic Albanians (Muslim and also Christian I guess), Slovenia for the ethnic Slovenes, Montenegro for the ethnic Montenegrins, and North Macedonia for the ethnic Macedonians.

“Kosovo” would be mostly part of Albania (since Kosovo is ~80% Albanian ethnically speaking), although areas with a high density of Serbs would be part of Serbia.

Modern “Bosnia and Herzegovina” (including the “Republica Srpska”) would be split 3 ways: The bulk of the country, mainly the places that are majority Bosniak Muslim, would be part of Bosnia, which would be intended as a state for Bosniak Muslims. The self-proclaimed “Republica Srpska” (the areas of Bosnia which the Serbian-backed militias retained control of during the 1995 war) would either become an independent state, or better yet rejoin Serbia, as they are mostly inhabited by Orthodox Serbs. Finally, the areas that are mostly Croat and/or mostly Catholic would rejoin Croatia.

Montenegro would still exist, but areas that are mostly Serbs as opposed to Montenegrins, and also areas that are mostly part of the Serbian Orthodox Church as opposed to the self-proclaimed Montenegrin Orthodox Church, would be returned to Serbia.

This will change the borders a lot and could cause further tensions, but hopefully by giving each nation/religion a state there’ll be less conflict.



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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:59 pm

Can we stop with this Kosovo is Serbia drivel? They voted overwhelmingly to not be Serbia, most of it's inhabitants aren't Serbs, etc etc. And to those who say "Well, right then, let's just partition it!"

Are you fucking kidding? What happened, pray tell, the last time we tried to split the Balkan states into entities where it's inhabitants hated one another? Did that go well? I can't seem to recall...

Edit: I'm sure the charges against the Kosovoan President are legitimate, just as they've been legitimate for every single fucking Balkan leader that ever served during the armed conflicts of the 1990s. That alone doesn't undermine Kosovo's rightful sovereignty and right to remain independent from Serbia.
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Vivolkha
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Postby Vivolkha » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:01 pm

Oneid wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:Having superficial knownledge about Kosovar politics, this doesn't come across as a surprise to me. Not that uncommon to the ex-Yugoslav countries either, The reaction to it kinda is though. Face facts, Kosovo is no longer Serbia.


Kosovo is Serbia

Great evidence you are bringing here.
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Anti: Religion, totalitarianism (includes Communism/Fascism by definition), Maduro & Morales, Trump, alt-right, right to discriminate, SJW, drug decriminalization, conspiracy theories, unregulated capitalism, monarchism, anti-intellectualism

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Tolopel
Secretary
 
Posts: 36
Founded: Apr 23, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tolopel » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:03 pm

Kosovo is NOT Serbia.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33253
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:05 pm

Major-Tom wrote:Are you fucking kidding? What happened, pray tell, the last time we tried to split the Balkan states into entities where it's inhabitants hated one another? Did that go well? I can't seem to recall...

To be fair there probably is a case to be made for splitting it up along ethnic lines as opposed to leaving it a mixed ethnicity mess like bosnia. Assuming such a split could be made both sides would probably be better off for it. Not that I know many details about the issue. But given the regions history I'd say it's likely.

Edit: I'm sure the charges against the Kosovoan President are legitimate, just as they've been legitimate for every single fucking Balkan leader that ever served during the armed conflicts of the 1990s. That alone doesn't undermine Kosovo's rightful sovereignty and right to remain independent from Serbia.

I have no real stake in this game but I must say that I feel somewhat uneasy about the prospect of supporting a nation whose independence is built on a foundation of war crimes. So yes, I would actually say that should these allegations be proven it somewhat does.
Last edited by Purpelia on Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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