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[DRAFT] Flotilla Dilemma

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Westinor
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[DRAFT] Flotilla Dilemma

Postby Westinor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:01 pm

[title] Flotilla Dilemma

[desc] The socialist nation of Núi Và Sông and the capitalist nation of the United Federation have recently been embroiled in a bitter conflict, which @@NAME@@ has steered clear of in hopes of preserving diplomatic relationships with the two nations. However, you have just been informed that a trio of badly-damaged ships from Núi Và Sông are sailing towards @@ANIMAL@@ City, seeking aid and protection from a fleet of United Federationist battleships pursuing them.
[validity]no autarky (op 3?), communist

[option] "We've got to help these poor souls!" laments your Minister of Underdogs. "They don't have enough fuel to make it to a different port and their ships are little more than sheets of metal riddled with holes. We are their one chance at survival — you've got to help them, no matter what the international ramifications! Plus, surely it can't hurt to be on good terms with Núi Và Sông — they make awfully good noodles..."
[effect]compassion killed the @@DEMONYM@@
[validity]capitalist

[option] "We've got to help these poor souls!" laments your Minister of Underdogs. "They don't have enough fuel to make it to a different port and their ships are little more than sheets of metal riddled with holes. We are their one chance at survival — it's our duty to help our fellow comrades, no matter what the international ramifications! Plus, surely it can't hurt to be on good terms with Núi Và Sông — they make awfully good noodles..."
[effect]compassion killed the @@DEMONYM@@
[validity]communist

[option] "Look @@LEADER@@ — I know we have our differences, but we've always held amiable relations," rumbles the United Federation ambassador as he kicks your door down and enters the room. "I strongly advise you to turn away these bastards, and allow us to blow their damned rowboats out of the water. You don't want to get involved in this war, and if you do," He turns to stare you in the eye, "You'll want to be on the right side."
[effect]when someone’s in trouble @@LEADER@@ looks the other way
[validity]capitalist

[option]"Look @@LEADER@@ — I know we have our differences, but our nations have always held amiable relations," rumbles the United Federation ambassador as he kicks your door down and enters the room. "I don't care if these straw-hat idiots are part of your commie club, because if you don't turn them away and let us blow their damned rowboats out of the water, we're going to have a problem. You don't want to get involved in this war, and if you do," He turns to stare you in the eye, "You'll want to be on the right side."
[effect]when someone's in trouble @@LEADER@@ looks the other way
[validity]communist

[option] "Well, there's an obvious solution to this." comments your Minister of Solutions as she attempts to put your door back up with a roll of scotch tape and a bottle of glue. "If we harbor the fleeing ships, we lose one of our largest trading partners. What we can do sell the ships fuel and supplies for repairs — we wouldn't be aiding them, per say, we'd just be completing a business transaction. I'm sure the United Federation would understand as it's what's best in our interests, and we don't get involved in this good-for-nothing war. It’s a win-win-win! Or something like that, anyway."
[effect]the nation’s newest international policy motto is "cash and dash"

[option] "No — this is a chance to help these nations seek peace!" cries your Minister of Diplomacy as she desperately tries to keep your Ministers of Solutions and Alternate Solutions from pummeling each other. "Stop both fleets, and have them meet each other on some middle ground — perhaps one of our ships? Call in leaders from both nations, and right there we can hash out a peace deal — two mortal enemies, weary from war and looking each other in the eye, agreeing to set their weapons down in the name of peace! That's a happy ending if I've ever heard one!"
[effect]@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ arbiters tend to stand in the middle of the battlefield yelling at both sides to stop shooting
Last edited by Westinor on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:33 am, edited 16 times in total.

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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:14 pm

Why is the third one communist validity? Why not ditch the second option and keep the third one for all nations?
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:45 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:Why is the third one communist validity? Why not ditch the second option and keep the third one for all nations?


That's an awfully good point. Made the change, thanks!

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Apabeossie
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Postby Apabeossie » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:13 am

Not too bad in my opinion, although option 2 kind of assumes that the nation and the United Federation were friends before... May be in need of a validity thing.
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:18 am

For sure, if your nation's communist then it's more likely to have Núi Va Sông as an ally.
Of course, the United Federation is presumably a bit more powerful than Núi Va Sông, and of course other issues suggest that your two nations at least get along,
so it'd probably still work with a little rewording. Of course, if might make some sense to specify that the former is capitalist and the latter communist,
much to the interest of the nation solving the issue. :P
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:44 am

Jutsa wrote:For sure, if your nation's communist then it's more likely to have Núi Va Sông as an ally.
Of course, the United Federation is presumably a bit more powerful than Núi Va Sông, and of course other issues suggest that your two nations at least get along,
so it'd probably still work with a little rewording. Of course, if might make some sense to specify that the former is capitalist and the latter communist,
much to the interest of the nation solving the issue. :P


Yeah, I was thinking about that - going to get to rewording the draft as a whole, but options-wise, I'm trying to work on creating a communist/capitalist option for both options 1 and 2; but this definitely helped clarify what I should do. Thanks! :p

Apabeossie wrote:Not too bad in my opinion, although option 2 kind of assumes that the nation and the United Federation were friends before... May be in need of a validity thing.


Generally, from what I've seen in past issues and the NPC nations page the United Federation (seems?) to be fairly friendly with your nation - but I understand the wording might be too strong, so I'll work on it.

EDIT:polished up and made capitalist vs. communist options - let me know what you think!
Last edited by Westinor on Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:22 pm

Definitely a nice idea to play on capitalist vs. communist economies, although I still think there's some issue about assuming Núi Va Sông is an ally.

it's our duty to them as their allies to help them

A bit clunky, but also I'd change this to "it's our duty to help fellow comrades in need" or something.

Plus, surely it can't hurt to be on good terms with Núi Và Sông — they make awfully good noodles..."

Personally I'd use this in the first varient too; no need to say "befriend them" imo, but your call.

I don't care if these straw-hat idiots are your friends

Again, assumption of friends here. Maybe you could say "part of your commie club" or something. :lol:

Núi Và Sông and the United Federation

Might put "The socialist nation of Núi Và Sông and capitalist nation of the United Federation" to help clarify from the get-go who's what? Cause not all people first getting this will know what economic system they've got. :P

Plus, you could maybe put in something about them being communist in the capitalist version of option 2. :)

Again, just ideas. Take/leave what you will. :P
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Jutsa wrote:Definitely a nice idea to play on capitalist vs. communist economies, although I still think there's some issue about assuming Núi Va Sông is an ally.

it's our duty to them as their allies to help them

A bit clunky, but also I'd change this to "it's our duty to help fellow comrades in need" or something.

Plus, surely it can't hurt to be on good terms with Núi Và Sông — they make awfully good noodles..."

Personally I'd use this in the first varient too; no need to say "befriend them" imo, but your call.

I don't care if these straw-hat idiots are your friends

Again, assumption of friends here. Maybe you could say "part of your commie club" or something. :lol:

Núi Và Sông and the United Federation

Might put "The socialist nation of Núi Và Sông and capitalist nation of the United Federation" to help clarify from the get-go who's what? Cause not all people first getting this will know what economic system they've got. :P

Plus, you could maybe put in something about them being communist in the capitalist version of option 2. :)

Again, just ideas. Take/leave what you will. :P


Made the changes! Really appreciate them :3 personally really liked "commie club"

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:06 am

Minor nitpick. In the description, it says "Federal battle ships". Obviously "Federal" here means from the UF, but if @@NAME@@ is itself a federation, it can get confusing
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:51 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Minor nitpick. In the description, it says "Federal battle ships". Obviously "Federal" here means from the UF, but if @@NAME@@ is itself a federation, it can get confusing


Yeah, good point. I was considering using “Federation” battleships but realized that’s the same problem. Gonna keep thinking for more, but right now i might just use “United Federationist” just to distinguish.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:35 am

Past issues have more or less assumed that Nui Va Song is your ally if you're communist, and the UF is your ally (or at the very least major trading partner) if you're capitalist.

I'd say this issue would work best as being just for communist nations.
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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:55 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Past issues have more or less assumed that Nui Va Song is your ally if you're communist, and the UF is your ally (or at the very least major trading partner) if you're capitalist.

I'd say this issue would work best as being just for communist nations.


Removed the capitalist options and changed validity to communist.

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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:38 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Past issues have more or less assumed that Nui Va Song is your ally if you're communist, and the UF is your ally (or at the very least major trading partner) if you're capitalist.

I'd say this issue would work best as being just for communist nations.
Whyever would you not grant refuge to your allies?

There's more of a dilemma if your nation is neutral, or even if you're hostile to the refugees' nation but feel honor-bound to give shelter to soldiers who have already been defeated and are willing to keep their heads down until the war ends.

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:33 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Past issues have more or less assumed that Nui Va Song is your ally if you're communist, and the UF is your ally (or at the very least major trading partner) if you're capitalist.

I'd say this issue would work best as being just for communist nations.
Whyever would you not grant refuge to your allies?

There's more of a dilemma if your nation is neutral, or even if you're hostile to the refugees' nation but feel honor-bound to give shelter to soldiers who have already been defeated and are willing to keep their heads down until the war ends.


Maybe my previous wording wasn't clear enough to make it so that the nation in question is neutral and not necessarily an ally of Núi Và Sông (response to CWA's suggestions)? I can try and go back to fix that, because you might be right in that the dilemma would make more sense being that you are absolutely neutral, and therefore the problem is whether you help these people or not. (I see it as a compassion vs international ramifications thing, as its either let the Núi Và Sông ships be destroyed and their crew killed on the doorstep of the player's nation, or lose an ally and trade partner in the United Federation. Surely it wouldn't be too much of a bend and more of an addition to the 'lore' of these nations to add back what I built on before?

EDIT: I'll revert it for now, and see if I can reword it to make it more of a neutral problem
Last edited by Westinor on Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:23 am

Alright, so here's how I currently see the issue/how I would envision the issue to be presented:

The dilemma is that there are several Núi Và Sông ships sailing towards the player's nation, and are in urgent need of repairs. Their ships do not have the fuel nor the structural integrity to make it to a different port, and even if they tried the United Federation would catch them. Is this an acceptable premise and is it made clear in my current rendition of the issue?

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Postby Pythaga » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:26 pm

Westinor wrote:Alright, so here's how I currently see the issue/how I would envision the issue to be presented:

The dilemma is that there are several Núi Và Sông ships sailing towards the player's nation, and are in urgent need of repairs. Their ships do not have the fuel nor the structural integrity to make it to a different port, and even if they tried the United Federation would catch them. Is this an acceptable premise and is it made clear in my current rendition of the issue?


As for if it's presented clearly enough, I think so.

Description wrote:of which @@NAME@@ has steered clear of in hopes of preserving international relationships with the two nations.


I think that you should remove the 'of' in the beginning, in my opinion the sentence flows a little better without it. Also, I'd replace 'international' with a different adjective. Is @@NAME@@ friendly, neutral, or something else with the UF and NVS?

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:49 am

Pythaga wrote:
Westinor wrote:Alright, so here's how I currently see the issue/how I would envision the issue to be presented:

The dilemma is that there are several Núi Và Sông ships sailing towards the player's nation, and are in urgent need of repairs. Their ships do not have the fuel nor the structural integrity to make it to a different port, and even if they tried the United Federation would catch them. Is this an acceptable premise and is it made clear in my current rendition of the issue?


As for if it's presented clearly enough, I think so.

Description wrote:of which @@NAME@@ has steered clear of in hopes of preserving international relationships with the two nations.


I think that you should remove the 'of' in the beginning, in my opinion the sentence flows a little better without it. Also, I'd replace 'international' with a different adjective. Is @@NAME@@ friendly, neutral, or something else with the UF and NVS?


Made the changes - as for the 'international' suggestion, the problem is depending on the player's ideology the relation varies. It's not necessarily stated how a capitalist nation would deal with NVS, though most of the time the UF is friendly and/or neutral. I've chosen 'diplomatic' because I feel perhaps that deals better with it? But if you feel like it doesn't I'll change it to neutral.

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Pythaga
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Postby Pythaga » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:24 am

Westinor wrote:Made the changes - as for the 'international' suggestion, the problem is depending on the player's ideology the relation varies. It's not necessarily stated how a capitalist nation would deal with NVS, though most of the time the UF is friendly and/or neutral. I've chosen 'diplomatic' because I feel perhaps that deals better with it? But if you feel like it doesn't I'll change it to neutral.


That’s true, you can’t really attach a single descriptor. I think it works well with diplomatic as you have it now.

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm

Pythaga wrote:
Westinor wrote:Made the changes - as for the 'international' suggestion, the problem is depending on the player's ideology the relation varies. It's not necessarily stated how a capitalist nation would deal with NVS, though most of the time the UF is friendly and/or neutral. I've chosen 'diplomatic' because I feel perhaps that deals better with it? But if you feel like it doesn't I'll change it to neutral.


That’s true, you can’t really attach a single descriptor. I think it works well with diplomatic as you have it now.


Whoops, this reply is late. Alright then, sounds good :p Thanks!

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Westinor
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Postby Westinor » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:43 pm

Added an extra option - is this a bit too overpacked?

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:20 am

Yeah, I see what Trotterdam is saying.

I guess right now its hard to unpick what the dilemma you're aiming at is. What's the conflict here that makes the decision a hard one? What's the moral or political choice we're being asked to make?
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