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Animal Intelligence, revisited.

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Thepeopl
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Animal Intelligence, revisited.

Postby Thepeopl » Sun May 31, 2020 2:53 am

https://globalnews.ca/news/7003023/can-animals-talk/

Several months ago ( almost a year) there was a discussion on NSG about sentience and sapience.
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=472650&hilit=Sapience


My question: why do humans insist on setting themselves apart from other life forms?
Why can't we accept intelligence in other life forms?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 155308.htm

Isn't it time we throw away the dogmas of Religion?
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1948-04299-001

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicat ... have-souls

Imo, humans are just a species among all species. Lifecycle demands we eat and procreate. We do have a disproportionate effect on the environment and we should get our act together and clean the mess up.
I don't think humans will go on a killing spree just because religion is ignored.

But what do you think?
What are my fallacies/ think errors?
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 31, 2020 3:01 am

Baaah.
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Deacarsia
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Animal Intelligence

Postby Deacarsia » Sun May 31, 2020 3:02 am

Human beings insist on setting ourselves apart from other life forms, because we are different from all other life forms. Human beings clearly vastly outmatch any other creature in terms of cognition.

Many scientists often try to exalt animals rather than study them objectively.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun May 31, 2020 3:13 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Baaah.


You took the words right out of my mouth.
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Thepeopl
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Postby Thepeopl » Sun May 31, 2020 3:15 am

Deacarsia wrote:Human beings insist on setting ourselves apart from other life forms, because we are different from all other life forms. Human beings clearly vastly outmatch any other creature in terms of cognition.

Many scientists often try to exalt animals rather than study them objectively.

Well the cockroaches vastly out match humans in survival capabilities.

https://www.livescience.com/62093-why-c ... thing.html

And the chickadees have perfect memory recall

https://www.knowablemagazine.org/articl ... emory-food

Humans are not different from animals

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence
Humans claim animals are less intelligent because animals don't use their intelligence like humans do, along a humans logical scale.
So I rather think that is shortsighted and very arrogant of humans. Have you tried to smell cancer cells in others today? Dogs and rats can. Why can't you?
Last edited by Thepeopl on Sun May 31, 2020 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sun May 31, 2020 3:16 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Baaah.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

Määaaaa?
Last edited by -Astoria on Sun May 31, 2020 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun May 31, 2020 3:34 am

-Astoria wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
You took the words right out of my mouth.

Määaaaa?


Sheep talk differently in different countries, that's like different languages. Sheep be smart!
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun May 31, 2020 3:35 am

I have no problem accepting animal intelligence personally. Elephants in particular fascinate me because they seem to be so smart.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun May 31, 2020 3:38 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I have no problem accepting animal intelligence personally. Elephants in particular fascinate me because they seem to be so smart.

Dolphins too. Fucking clever little aquatic bastards they are.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 31, 2020 3:40 am

Deacarsia wrote:Human beings insist on setting ourselves apart from other life forms, because we are different from all other life forms. Human beings clearly vastly outmatch any other creature in terms of cognition.

Many scientists often try to exalt animals rather than study them objectively.

This considers "are animals intelligent" to be a question with a singular monolithic answer, which is, quite frankly, stupid beyond belief. There are many different aspects of 'intelligence,' and one particular species lacking a particular skill is meaningless on the whole (from the same article: "some critics saying it may be necessary to understand specific cognitive capacities as adaptations to differing ecological niches"). For example, one of this section's supposedly problem-introducing pieces of research points to the fact that C. Lloyd Morgan's dog did not carefully plan its actions prior to figuring out how to open a latch... and yet other types of planning have been observed in supposedly less intelligent animals like salticids. Mantids make strategic decisions when finding prey and defending against predators. Pigs unfamiliar with mirrors use them to find nearby objects. I could go on.

The point is that different animals have different intellectual skills and trying to disprove a strawmanned idea of "animals are intelligent" or make such a blanket statement is fundamentally flawed. Expecting animals that are unsuited for a particular task to be able to immediately and easily do it in a controlled setting and then pointing to their failure as evidence for humans being somehow better than all other animals betrays a deep ignorance of evolution and cognitive diversity.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sun May 31, 2020 3:45 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Sheep talk differently in different countries, that's like different languages. Sheep be smart!

Google Translate for sheep; someone please make that a thing. :p

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun May 31, 2020 3:49 am

Remember that there is an Orangutan that has legal personhood: https://www.newsweek.com/orangutan-gran ... an-1470533
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Thepeopl
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Postby Thepeopl » Sun May 31, 2020 4:13 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
-Astoria wrote:Määaaaa?


Sheep talk differently in different countries, that's like different languages. Sheep be smart!

We had sheep on our farm who would chase the dog away. She would come up to me to receive extra tasty tidbits and be scratched behind the ears.
My cows did the same btw.
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Sun May 31, 2020 6:42 am

I don't see what the intelligence of animals has to do with religion.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun May 31, 2020 6:47 am

Auze wrote:I don't see what the intelligence of animals has to do with religion.

The Bible tends to treat animals as substantially inferior to us, and fair game for meat, with but a few exceptions. Our understanding of them now however has revealed that animals can have very complex thought processes that mirror our own in some respects.
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Postby The Grims » Sun May 31, 2020 7:15 am

Auze wrote:I don't see what the intelligence of animals has to do with religion.


If animals have morals, where did they come from ? Did they eat from the tree of knowledge as well?

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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 31, 2020 7:19 am

My dog is clearly a sentient creature. When I was keeping an eye on her while my mom was out, every little noise had her sniffing the air and moving her head. And when you make weird noises at dogs, they often cook their head in confusion or interest. Many animals are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and are thinking creatures and not just robots.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sun May 31, 2020 7:20 am

Humans always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

---abe lincoln
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Sun May 31, 2020 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun May 31, 2020 7:22 am

The New California Republic wrote:Remember that there is an Orangutan that has legal personhood: https://www.newsweek.com/orangutan-gran ... an-1470533


Judge: We have deemed that apes deserve personhood.

Apes: https://youtu.be/28--5aEV1Z0
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Sun May 31, 2020 7:22 am

The Grims wrote:
Auze wrote:I don't see what the intelligence of animals has to do with religion.


If animals have morals, where did they come from ? Did they eat from the tree of knowledge as well?


Or a tasty salmon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_of_Knowledge
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sun May 31, 2020 7:23 am

The Grims wrote:
Auze wrote:I don't see what the intelligence of animals has to do with religion.


If animals have morals, where did they come from ? Did they eat from the tree of knowledge as well?

^ This.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sun May 31, 2020 10:17 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I have no problem accepting animal intelligence personally. Elephants in particular fascinate me because they seem to be so smart.

Octopusesand dolphins, similarly, show problem-solving abilities and tool use.
Last edited by Katganistan on Sun May 31, 2020 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Katganistan » Sun May 31, 2020 10:20 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Humans always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Sun May 31, 2020 10:29 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:I have no problem accepting animal intelligence personally. Elephants in particular fascinate me because they seem to be so smart.

Dolphins too. Fucking clever little aquatic bastards they are.


Not just that, even the African Grey Parrots, who can remember the meanings of around 1,000 to 5,000 words, string together a few sentences, express in art and other stuff. Animals who display behaviours usually set aside for humans interest me a lot.
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Postby Purple Rats » Sun May 31, 2020 2:23 pm

Thepeopl wrote:My question: why do humans insist on setting themselves apart from other life forms?
Why can't we accept intelligence in other life forms?


Because if we respect the life of other species, we must also question our morals of how we treat them, and people don't like to do that.

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