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Does a MAGA hat disqualify you from office?

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Drongonia
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Does a MAGA hat disqualify you from office?

Postby Drongonia » Sun May 24, 2020 2:08 am

NOTE: I don't think this is suitable for the MAGAthread as it's not about Trump, per se. I also don't think it's suitable for the NZ election thread because it's not really about the election (although it could impact it somewhat), but we're still months away from September and I suspect this will have blown over by then.

For context:

Todd Muller has been the leader of New Zealand's (barely) centre-right National Party for what feels like nigh on five seconds now and the media are already after him. You can read about it here.

I mean, they were of course just given a $50,000,000 subsidy by the government, despite having their highest viewerships and readerships ever as we were all locked down. Funnily enough, the first two political polls from the nation's largest news organisations after receiving the subsidy showed Labour's share of the vote skyrocketing by approximately 20%. For context, this has NEVER happened before, in any other national emergency/tragedy.


Anyhow... Muller is now being targeted by everyone from the far-left Green Party to the "Muslim community" over this photo (originally from an article in 2019) containing a certain hat.

Muller describes himself as a "bit of an American political junkie", and apparently travelled to the US in 2016 during the leadup to their elections. He visited both Trump and Clinton campaign events and grabbed a souvenir from each. A pair of pins from Clinton's, and a MAGA hat from Trump's. No biggie, right? WRONG! Despite Muller talking in that article about how depressing and polarised he saw US politics becoming, and how he actively refused to put on the hat for a photo... he's being thrown to the dogs.

Muller has now been smeared by various sources as a Nazi, white supremacist, racist etc etc. Or if he's not, he's endorsing those things by having the hat on his shelf.

So to end: I'm not a fan of Trump, or even of Muller, I just think it's wildly unfair how he's being treated and stinks of an organised media hitjob.

Your thoughts, NSG? Should owning a MAGA hat automatically banish you via the court of public opinion?
Last edited by Drongonia on Sun May 24, 2020 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Slavakino
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Postby Slavakino » Sun May 24, 2020 2:13 am

No. End of story, it shouldn't
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Postby Jedi Council » Sun May 24, 2020 2:14 am

Do I think people should not vote for him because of a hat? Probably not.
Do I think he is an idiot for wasting money on it? Probably yes.

EDIT: Having read the first article more closely, I think the main issue people are having, as mentioned by the representative from the Muslim community, is that it would be in his parliamentary office, rather than his house.

That's an important distinction in my eyes; your house is your own private sphere, do as you will, but if you bring such a controversial item into your office, especially as a political figure, you should be very aware of how that might be perceived.

In short, him having it is not an issue per se, but I do not think it is appropriate to have in his office.
Last edited by Jedi Council on Sun May 24, 2020 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 24, 2020 2:27 am

Depends. Suppose a political party would decorate their official chamber with the flag of another country instead of their own.

Would such a display of loyalty to another nation be a reason to exclude them from state secrets ?
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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Sun May 24, 2020 2:30 am

I don't see why it should.
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Postby Stanmenistan » Sun May 24, 2020 2:31 am

I'm not a trump supporter but I don;t think wearing a MAGA hat should disqualify you from office.
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Postby Knask » Sun May 24, 2020 2:36 am

It should be a requirement for office if you're in the US, but disqualify you from office if you're anywhere else in the world.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 24, 2020 2:37 am

Stanmenistan wrote:I'm not a trump supporter but I don;t think wearing a MAGA hat should disqualify you from office.

Note that this is not an American politician.

Imagine Trump had the oval office filled with Russian flags, framed pictures of Putin and insisted on calling all his party members comrade.
Would you have some doubts about his loyalty towards the USA ?
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Postby Drongonia » Sun May 24, 2020 2:39 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Stanmenistan wrote:I'm not a trump supporter but I don;t think wearing a MAGA hat should disqualify you from office.

Note that this is not an American politician.

Imagine Trump had the oval office filled with Russian flags, framed pictures of Putin and insisted on calling all his party members comrade.
Would you have some doubts about his loyalty towards the USA ?

Well hold your horses. If you look at the photo you can see his shelf actually has memorabilia from both the US and NZ there. On the top shelf he's got a picture of him visiting our soldiers in Iraq, as well as a brown cap with a kiwi on it (from the Air Force I believe).

Also that's a false equivalence because he never actually said he supported Trump, not to mention he refused to wear the hat for a photo, as I said in the OP.
Last edited by Drongonia on Sun May 24, 2020 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperial Majapahit
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Postby Imperial Majapahit » Sun May 24, 2020 2:40 am

No. Wha- how does owning a piece of memorabile disqualify anyone from public office?

The man merely got it as a souvenir, that's pretty much it. I agree with the people saying he should keep it in his home, but really, the portrayal of him is already overly absurd based on the article you put there, OP. I bet if he had hung up a gigantic rainbow flag instead, the media wouldn't bat an eye even if that piece of fabric is just as controversial as a MAGA hat.
Last edited by Imperial Majapahit on Sun May 24, 2020 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sun May 24, 2020 2:41 am

No, but don't be surprised & complain if it negatively affects your chances.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 24, 2020 2:42 am

Drongonia wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:Note that this is not an American politician.

Imagine Trump had the oval office filled with Russian flags, framed pictures of Putin and insisted on calling all his party members comrade.
Would you have some doubts about his loyalty towards the USA ?

Well hold your horses. If you look at the photo you can see his shelf actually has memorabilia from both the US and NZ there. On the top shelf he's got a picture of him visiting our soldiers in Iraq, as well as a brown cap with a kiwi on it (from the Air Force I believe).

Also that's a false equivalence because he never actually said he supported Trump, not to mention he refused to wear the hat for a photo, as I said in the OP.

That's the point - I am trying to find out where people "draw the line" ;)
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Imperial Majapahit
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Postby Imperial Majapahit » Sun May 24, 2020 2:46 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Drongonia wrote:Well hold your horses. If you look at the photo you can see his shelf actually has memorabilia from both the US and NZ there. On the top shelf he's got a picture of him visiting our soldiers in Iraq, as well as a brown cap with a kiwi on it (from the Air Force I believe).

Also that's a false equivalence because he never actually said he supported Trump, not to mention he refused to wear the hat for a photo, as I said in the OP.

That's the point - I am trying to find out where people "draw the line" ;)

I suppose the line would be whether the man wore the hat and personally spoke out loud that he supported the US presidential campaign that said hat represented, or literally just put the thing there along with other pieces of memorabilia(?)
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sun May 24, 2020 2:47 am

Bit unseemly to have a notorious foreign political party's slogan merchandise in one's own political office. Not really a big enough deal to make a news story out of it though.

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Postby Green October Z » Sun May 24, 2020 2:47 am

Knask wrote:It should be a requirement for office if you're in the US, but disqualify you from office if you're anywhere else in the world.


Why?
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Knask
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Postby Knask » Sun May 24, 2020 3:00 am

Green October Z wrote:
Knask wrote:It should be a requirement for office if you're in the US, but disqualify you from office if you're anywhere else in the world.


Why?

Because in the US it would show your loyalty and allegiance to the ruler, while in other countries it shows you're an untrusty turncoat and a lickspittle sycophant whose loyalties lie with a foreign leader instead of with your own people - or a liar who don't really subscribe to the policy of America First but just wants to wear a powerful symbol to look cool. Either way you should never be trusted to hold a position of power.

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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Sun May 24, 2020 3:01 am

Knask wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
Why?

Because in the US it would show your loyalty and allegiance to the ruler, while in other countries it shows you're an untrusty turncoat and a lickspittle sycophant whose loyalties lie with a foreign leader instead of with your own people - or a liar who don't really subscribe to the policy of America First but just wants to wear a powerful symbol to look cool. Either way you should never be trusted to hold a position of power.


But, he is a celebrity :D
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun May 24, 2020 3:03 am

Knask wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
Why?

Because in the US it would show your loyalty and allegiance to the ruler, while in other countries it shows you're an untrusty turncoat and a lickspittle sycophant whose loyalties lie with a foreign leader instead of with your own people - or a liar who don't really subscribe to the policy of America First but just wants to wear a powerful symbol to look cool. Either way you should never be trusted to hold a position of power.

So if Joe Exotic wins the next election, politicians should toss out their maga hats and start wearing tiger crowns ?
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Sun May 24, 2020 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sun May 24, 2020 3:03 am

Green October Z wrote:
Knask wrote:Because in the US it would show your loyalty and allegiance to the ruler, while in other countries it shows you're an untrusty turncoat and a lickspittle sycophant whose loyalties lie with a foreign leader instead of with your own people - or a liar who don't really subscribe to the policy of America First but just wants to wear a powerful symbol to look cool. Either way you should never be trusted to hold a position of power.


But, he is a celebrity :D


Which would count if it was an Apprentice mug or something, but MAGA is part of his political bollocks so probably best for politicians not to show off said things.

Although in all honesty I couldn't care if he has a life size Trump body pillow, I can't deny it at least looks bad to have such items on proud display in a political office.

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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Sun May 24, 2020 3:05 am

Albrenia wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
But, he is a celebrity :D


Which would count if it was an Apprentice mug or something, but MAGA is part of his political bollocks so probably best for politicians not to show off said things.

Although in all honesty I couldn't care if he has a life size Trump body pillow, I can't deny it at least looks bad to have such items on proud display in a political office.


Why?
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sun May 24, 2020 3:07 am

Green October Z wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
Which would count if it was an Apprentice mug or something, but MAGA is part of his political bollocks so probably best for politicians not to show off said things.

Although in all honesty I couldn't care if he has a life size Trump body pillow, I can't deny it at least looks bad to have such items on proud display in a political office.


Why?


It looks like one has some sort of favouritism towards a foreign political party. Just a general bad look, nothing serious though.

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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Sun May 24, 2020 3:24 am

Albrenia wrote:
Green October Z wrote:
Why?


It looks like one has some sort of favouritism towards a foreign political party. Just a general bad look, nothing serious though.


Or just a foreign country which is pretty much a given if you are a small country.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sun May 24, 2020 3:28 am

Green October Z wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
It looks like one has some sort of favouritism towards a foreign political party. Just a general bad look, nothing serious though.


Or just a foreign country which is pretty much a given if you are a small country.


Either way, it's just in the 'kind of looks bad' category. Nothing worth any reaction beside a roll of the eyes, certainly not a news story, much less actual backlash.

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The Andromeda Island Group
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Postby The Andromeda Island Group » Sun May 24, 2020 3:31 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Stanmenistan wrote:I'm not a trump supporter but I don;t think wearing a MAGA hat should disqualify you from office.

Note that this is not an American politician.

Imagine Trump had the oval office filled with Russian flags, framed pictures of Putin and insisted on calling all his party members comrade.
Would you have some doubts about his loyalty towards the USA ?


Some of us already have doubts about Trump's loyalty to anyone other than himself.

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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sun May 24, 2020 3:49 am

Green October Z wrote:
Knask wrote:Because in the US it would show your loyalty and allegiance to the ruler, while in other countries it shows you're an untrusty turncoat and a lickspittle sycophant whose loyalties lie with a foreign leader instead of with your own people - or a liar who don't really subscribe to the policy of America First but just wants to wear a powerful symbol to look cool. Either way you should never be trusted to hold a position of power.


But, he is a celebrity :D

Not an excuse.

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