[ON HOLD] @@LEADER@@ on a Roof

[Jutsa]

There's a lot to unpack here, so I'll just say that I absolutely loved Fiddler on a Roof, highly recommend it,
and I tried to throw a few other references in here. And yes, I'm aware that I've mixed up characters something awful.

as usual, not sure about the effect lines, but tbf I made this waking up at 6:30 AM and considering a few nights ago I went to sleep at this time... yaaay.

Title: @@LEADER@@ on a Roof
The Issue: Your uncle has interrupted your breakfast to tell you that your cousin has been wed — to an illegal immigrant.
Validity: Marriage is legal, very very low inclusivity

Option 1: "Impossible, unthinkable! My daughter, your cousin, has eloped with an illegal, not to mention threw our whole tradition and way of life away to a penniless bum who wears nose rings and drinks @@ANIMAL@@ urine for some goddess," says your uncle, breaking into dance for some inexplicable reason. "If you had any sense of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ pride, tradition, and law, you would disown her just as I have, and deport that weird-looking bug back to Brancaland. TRADIIITIOOOON!" You look up to where he's pointing to see a leak in the ceiling.
[effect] @@LEADER@@ has a very small family

Validity: Not vegetarian, No Prohibition
Option 2a: "I'm not thrilled your cousin's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Brancish Perchick tribe, offering you hard liquor and a healthy slice of beef. "But look into her eyes. See how happy she is!" He holds up a blurry year-old photo of her. "Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it! Oh, and make him and others like him legal citizens while you're at it."
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Validity: Vegetarian OR Prohibition
Option 2b: "I'm not thrilled your cousin's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Brancish Perchick tribe, offering you some syrup and a healthy slice of cheese. "But look into her eyes. See how happy she is!" He holds up a blurry year-old photo of her. "Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it! Oh, and make him and others like him legal citizens while you're at it."
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Option 3: "You could just make all interethnic marriage illegal," says your brother, looking most out-of-place with his latest attempt at a mustache and T-shirt reading "Orders Are Orders". "Oh, and forcibly separate those already in mixed marriages. Muscle tough!" He begins playing a fiddle.
[effect] inbreeding has become the new in thing

Title: @@LEADER@@ on a Roof
The Issue: Your uncle has interrupted your breakfast to tell you that your cousin has been wed — to someone of a different ethnicity.
Validity: Marriage is legal, very very low inclusivity

Option 1: "Impossible, unthinkable! My daughter, your cousin, has eloped with an outsider, not to mention threw our whole tradition and way of life away to marry a penniless bum who wears nose rings and drinks @@ANIMAL@@ urine," says your uncle, breaking into dance for some inexplicable reason. "If you had any sense of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ pride and tradition, you would disown her just as I have, and make sure word never gets out that someone from our family committed something so blasphemous, at any cost. TRADIIITIOOOON!" You look up to where he's pointing to see a leak in the ceiling.
[effect] @@LEADER@@ has a very small family

Validity: Not vegetarian, No Prohibition
Option 2a: "I'm not thrilled your daughter's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Violetstone tribe, offering you hard liquor and a healthy slice of beef. "But look into her eyes. She's happy. She loves him. And that's the kind of culture we should embrace as a nation. Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Validity: Vegetarian OR Prohibition
Option 2b: "I'm not thrilled your daughter's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Violetstone tribe, offering you some cider and a healthy slice of cheese. "But look into her eyes. She's happy. She loves him. And that's the kind of culture we should embrace as a nation. Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Option 3: "You could just make interethnic marriage illegal," says your brother, looking most out-of-place with his latest attempt at a mustache and T-shirt reading "Orders are orders". "Oh, and forcibly separate those already wed. Muscle tough!" He begins playing a fiddle.
[effect] inbreeding has become the new in thing

Title: @@LEADER@@ on a Roof
The Issue: Your uncle has interrupted your breakfast to tell you that your cousin has been wed — to someone a different ethnicity.
Validity: Marriage is legal, very very low inclusivity

Option 1: "Impossible, unthinkable! My daughter, your niece, just married an outsider, not to mention threw our whole tradition and way of life into a bonfire," says your uncle, breaking into dance for some inexplicable reason. "If you had any sense of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ pride and tradition, you would disown her just as I have, and make sure word never gets out that someone from our family committed something so blasphemous. TRADIIITIOOOON!" You look up to where he's pointing to see a leak in the ceiling.
[effect] @@LEADER@@ has a very small family

Validity: Not vegetarian, No Prohibition
Option 2a: "I'm not thrilled your daughter's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Violetstone tribe, offering you hard liquor and a healthy slice of beef. "But look into her eyes. She's happy. She loves him. And that's the kind of culture we should embrace as a nation. Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Validity: Vegetarian OR Prohibition
Option 2b: "I'm not thrilled your daughter's marrying my son," says Wolf Moonbeam of the Violetstone tribe, offering you some cider and a healthy slice of cheese. "But look into her eyes. She's happy. She loves him. And that's the kind of culture we should embrace as a nation. Get over her dumping me just as I have, never mind the fact that I'll be a rich man. This is about them — don't hide their marriage, celebrate it!"
[effect] @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture has been disapproved by the government

Option 3: "You could just make interethnic marriage illegal," says your brother, looking most out-of-place with his latest mustache and T-shirt reading "Orders are orders". "Oh, and forcibly separate those already wed. Muscle tough!" He begins playing a fiddle.
[effect] inbreeding has become the new in thing

[Australian rePublic]

So what about multiracial societies, like Australia or the USA?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

That's why there's a validity check, Aussie.

Coming to the issue, I think it's a good premise, but the options are unimaginative. We basically have:

1) Disown them
2) It's okay
3) Ban interracial marriages

There's just not much going on here to make players have to think hard or agonise in any way. They'll know which way their nation leans, and click option 2 or 3 depending on where they want their stats to go.

Can you put on your thinking hat and try to make the decision a harder one?

[Jutsa]

I'll certainly try! Guess I'm rusty, forgot to raise the difficulty.
well that and excruciatingly out of order

Glad the premise is solid though.

[SherpDaWerp]

*puts nitpicking hat on* There's not much else I can fault with this draft - it's a good premise - so I'll resort to minor corrections

The Issue: Your uncle has interrupted your breakfast to tell you that your cousin has been wed — to someone a different ethnicity.

someone of a different ethnicity?

"Impossible, unthinkable! My daughter, your niece,

Uncle's daughter is cousin - if you want niece, you need brother's daughter.

"I'm not thrilled your daughter's marrying my son,"

Now it's my daughter? Granted, this could imply Wolf Moonbeam is speaking to your uncle, but then, the remainder of the sentence implies they are talking to you - they offer hard liquor and a healthy slice of beef to you, not your uncle.

offering you some cider and a healthy slice of cheese.

For what it's worth, here in Australia cider is typically also alcoholic.

[Jutsa]

Dangit I couldn't keep a straight head at all at 6:30 in the morning.

Kinda impressed I did as much as I did, considering I don't feel much better at 2:20 in the afternoon.

Yep, will swing by and put those in later as well. Not entirely sure when since I'm kinda all-over-the-place in what I'm doing rn but uh,
yeah, your nitpicks noted and much appreciated.

edit: Also still thinking about how on earth I'm going to make the options more difficult. I'd either have to make them crazier or, more likely,
modify the core issue itself somehow. Just not sure how... and probably would if I actually sat down and thought about it.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

You know another angle to this could be to say that the cousin has married an immigrant... it could also bring up issues of citizenship by marriage, etc., unless this has been tackled in a previous issue. (I have been inactive lately, so I am mostly ignorant about the latest 300 issues or so.)

For the issue of marrying a person from a tribe, I think it would be good if you gave a "reason" for @@LEADER@@'s uncle's rage. Tradition and way of life are vague concepts, and you could create more humor by emphasizing what exactly is wrong with this tribe, from the perspective of a racist. Do they drink @@ANIMAL@@ urine as part of a ritual? Do they sacrifice their firstborn to the Guardian Goddess of the Violetstone Hill?

etc.

Nice premise, though.

[Jutsa]

Many thanks

Updated it a little bit, and I thought the options might be more interesting as "deport the illegal", "let illegals become citizens through marriage", and "ban all interethnic marriage", but there's a bit of an issue with this approach:

It rings some bells with Issue 1053. Not a lot, mind you, but the options there are along the lines of:
1) let them come to @@NAME@@, 2) pay scuds money [it's great], 3) let them into @@NAME@@ but make them be wed, and 4) execute the heathens.

It's different, buuuut there might be some minor conflicts, and I'd just like to make clear whether or not they are. If not, I've got a 1.10WIP made.

[Australian rePublic]

Why wasn't leader invited to the wedding? Did they elope?

[Jutsa]

that was the idea. will specify that.

[Jutsa]

Just added "eloped". Still wouldn't mind a second opinion on whether WIP1.10 would clash too much with 1053,
but now I'm also wondering if "The real problem here is elopement" would be a valid issue option...

[Jutsa]

Alrighty, updated this to be about marrying an illegal immigrant instead.

Can always revert back if I need to. Also, still wanted tribes to be an unimportant factor solely on the premise that Wolf Moonbeam fits way too well.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

Actually, it seems we have some broad thematic overlaps here with #1333 (even though the illegal immigrant does not marry @@LEADER@@'s cousin for citizenship, it is hard to believe this was not a motive) and vaguely even #1157. The thing is, I feel like 2 issues about "marriages in @@LEADER@@'s family" are enough for now, and if there is going to be a 3rd one, it has to tackle an important issue. I am not sure if low inclusivity/ people not wanting to marry illegal immigrants (or members of tribes) is an important enough issue in that sense.

but now I'm also wondering if "The real problem here is elopement" would be a valid issue option...

I believe that would be @@LEADER@@'s personal problem then, right? Unless you want to prohibit everyone from eloping... which would be interesting, to say the least.

------------------

You know, I was thinking that maybe one could write an issue about what happens when a slave master marries a slave (which would obviously be only valid for nations with slavery). I think one could explore some novel issues there, unless this has already been tackled in a relatively recent issue that I missed.

If there was also an official Segregation policy or something like that on NS, you could use that to problematize what happens with interracial or interethnic marriages. As things stand, however, the issue seems to rest on a flimsy ground.

-------------------

To sum up, I would suggest that you don't make this about one particular marriage in @@LEADER@@'s family and instead go for a large societal phenomenon; and I would say that the person that the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ citizen is marrying should not be a tribal member or an immigrant (legal or illegal).

[Jutsa]

Huh. I'll definitely have to think about that, FuF. Thank you.

In that case, I'll put this one on hold. I am sorry I have so many drafts "on hold" at this point, but I've legit so many things going on that the only reason I'm back to NS is because of contest inspiration.

Once I get things sorted out (hopefully they will), I can hopefully focus on this more. Unfortunately, it looks to me like I'm just going to have more work to do starting next week.