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MAGAThread XIX: Hambergers, Noble Prizes, & Disinfectant

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16001
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Yet you have not provided a reason for us to believe anyone in high office is a fascist.

Wouldn’t placing the priority of the economy, and thus the state, over the well-being of human lives count as just a wee bit fascist?

Not at all. Human lives are impacted by the wellbeing of the economy, as proven by the people who cannot be reemployed thanks to the lockdown.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Eahland
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1324
Founded: Apr 18, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Eahland » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:57 pm

Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"
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Wayneactia
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Posts: 1263
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:57 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wouldn’t placing the priority of the economy, and thus the state, over the well-being of human lives count as just a wee bit fascist?

Not at all. Human lives are impacted by the wellbeing of the economy, as proven by the people who cannot be reemployed thanks to the lockdown.

I see. So corporate wellbeing trumps human life? Is it not the duty of the government to provide for the people, when the people cannot provide for themselves? Is that not why the safety blanket is elected, in the first place?

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16001
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 pm

Eahland wrote:Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"

The Proud Boys were among the more respectable groups in the Unite the Right march, and Antifa is very much not the same thing as being against fascism.
Which white supremacist propaganda are you speaking of currently?
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16001
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:04 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Not at all. Human lives are impacted by the wellbeing of the economy, as proven by the people who cannot be reemployed thanks to the lockdown.

I see. So corporate wellbeing trumps human life? Is it not the duty of the government to provide for the people, when the people cannot provide for themselves? Is that not why the safety blanket is elected, in the first place?

Did I say corporate wellbeing trumps human life? The duty of the government is to provide for either the majority of voters or the wealthiest donors, not the people at large. The safety blanket is just to keep people calm and distracted from the reasons why it exists in the first place.

There are a growing number of people who cannot find work because, for lots of businesses, it is impossible to reopen. Large corporations can survive what small businesses cannot. I have no desire to see the expansion of the permanently unemployed, or the ill effects on their families.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30543
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:09 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Eahland wrote:Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"

The Proud Boys were among the more respectable groups in the Unite the Right march, and Antifa is very much not the same thing as being against fascism.
Which white supremacist propaganda are you speaking of currently?

That question alone...
Everything for the cat.

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16001
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:11 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:The Proud Boys were among the more respectable groups in the Unite the Right march, and Antifa is very much not the same thing as being against fascism.
Which white supremacist propaganda are you speaking of currently?

That question alone...

All questions have an answer, I presume.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21725
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:05 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:Wouldn’t placing the priority of the economy, and thus the state, over the well-being of human lives count as just a wee bit fascist?

Not at all. Human lives are impacted by the wellbeing of the economy, as proven by the people who cannot be reemployed thanks to the lockdown.

Looking at how Texas, Florida and the rest of the “early-open” states have faired, I’d say that opening the lockdowns have been an Economic negative.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

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Cisairse
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8434
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:17 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:I see. So corporate wellbeing trumps human life? Is it not the duty of the government to provide for the people, when the people cannot provide for themselves? Is that not why the safety blanket is elected, in the first place?

Did I say corporate wellbeing trumps human life? The duty of the government is to provide for either the majority of voters or the wealthiest donors, not the people at large. The safety blanket is just to keep people calm and distracted from the reasons why it exists in the first place.

There are a growing number of people who cannot find work because, for lots of businesses, it is impossible to reopen. Large corporations can survive what small businesses cannot. I have no desire to see the expansion of the permanently unemployed, or the ill effects on their families.

There are tried-and-true solutions to these problems.

Solutions the GOP is refusing to implement.
Now it's clear as a pillar of smoke
The details of the above post are subject to leftist infighting.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Posts: 6667
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:16 am

Northern Davincia wrote:The duty of the government is to provide for either the majority of voters or the wealthiest donors, not the people at large.


Granted that the duty of government is to both (voters and donors) it's not either of them who government serves. It's the majority of the future, and the donors of the future. Governments once elected can do whatever they please, and if that was either the will of voters or the will of donors, you would know that loud and clear. Governments would do stuff you can't even imagine.

Governments are more motivated by getting re-elected, than they are to do what voters or donors told them to. That is why governments are always too cautious: it's much easier to lose a vote than to win a vote. And it's much easier to lose a donor than to win a donor.
Last edited by Nobel Hobos 2 on Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Also, AiliAiliA
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High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 19209
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:51 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:I see. So corporate wellbeing trumps human life? Is it not the duty of the government to provide for the people, when the people cannot provide for themselves? Is that not why the safety blanket is elected, in the first place?

Did I say corporate wellbeing trumps human life? The duty of the government is to provide for either the majority of voters or the wealthiest donors, not the people at large. The safety blanket is just to keep people calm and distracted from the reasons why it exists in the first place.

There are a growing number of people who cannot find work because, for lots of businesses, it is impossible to reopen. Large corporations can survive what small businesses cannot. I have no desire to see the expansion of the permanently unemployed, or the ill effects on their families.

You really ought to read some David Hume, especially on his Guillotine, because you show a consistent failure to separate what is and what ought to be.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:23 am

Kowani wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Not at all. Human lives are impacted by the wellbeing of the economy, as proven by the people who cannot be reemployed thanks to the lockdown.

Looking at how Texas, Florida and the rest of the “early-open” states have faired, I’d say that opening the lockdowns have been an Economic negative.


You know the economic stats take a while to come through, though?

Florida, I would say is doing long term damage to its tourism industry. It will hold up well for a while, but the reputation as "that place I caught covid and killed grandpa" will cut deep in the long term.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139872
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:25 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Eahland wrote:Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"

The Proud Boys were among the more respectable groups in the Unite the Right march, and Antifa is very much not the same thing as being against fascism.
Which white supremacist propaganda are you speaking of currently?

The Proud Boys didn't go to the Unite the Right march. Then Grand Wizard Gavin McInnes, or whatever his title was, told them to skip it.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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The Emerald Legion
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9175
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:52 am

Eahland wrote:Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"


Well no. Democrats are the real fascists because their party politics are literally a copypasta of Mein Kampf to the point that left wing intellectuals can't tell the difference as long as you replace the one being ranted against.

Like yes, Neo Nazis are shitty people but they're not the one with an entire political party and major corporate backing.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51375
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:57 am

>Proud Boys

>Respectable

*wheezes*
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The Emerald Legion
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Posts: 9175
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:12 am

Vassenor wrote:>Proud Boys

>Respectable

*wheezes*


The SPLC is literally just a hatchet job monger. Trusting them on what is and isn't a hate group is like asking Joseph McCarthy what is and isn't communism.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25835
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:18 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Eahland wrote:Trump: *spends four years alternately demonizing China, to whom he owes a large amount of money, and buddying up to them, depending entirely on what he believes personally benefits him at the moment*
also Trump: *tells everyone how there are very good people among the Nazis literally murdering people in the street*
also also Trump: *retweets white supremacist propaganda*
Trump's administration: *declares antifascism terrorism*
Trump's campaign: *runs ads using Nazi symbology for the purposes the Nazis used it for and throws in some Nazi numerology gang signs for good measure*
the usual suspects: "The Democrats are the real fascists because China!"


Well no. Democrats are the real fascists because their party politics are literally a copypasta of Mein Kampf to the point that left wing intellectuals can't tell the difference as long as you replace the one being ranted against.


I... uh... what?
For the benefit of all humankind

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The Emerald Legion
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Posts: 9175
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:20 am

Valrifell wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Well no. Democrats are the real fascists because their party politics are literally a copypasta of Mein Kampf to the point that left wing intellectuals can't tell the difference as long as you replace the one being ranted against.


I... uh... what?


What do you mean what? The Democratic party is literally the Nazi party. They just demonize different people.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25835
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:20 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I... uh... what?


What do you mean what? The Democratic party is literally the Nazi party. They just demonize different people.


I'm dumbfounded at such a ludicrous proposition.
For the benefit of all humankind

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139872
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:21 am

Valrifell wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
What do you mean what? The Democratic party is literally the Nazi party. They just demonize different people.


I'm dumbfounded at such a ludicrous proposition.

I believe that's the point.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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The Emerald Legion
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9175
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:24 am

Valrifell wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
What do you mean what? The Democratic party is literally the Nazi party. They just demonize different people.


I'm dumbfounded at such a ludicrous proposition.


It's hardly ludicrous. The issue is most people don't actually know Jack shit about the Nazis.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6667
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:29 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I'm dumbfounded at such a ludicrous proposition.


It's hardly ludicrous. The issue is most people don't actually know Jack shit about the Nazis.


Whereas you have studied them in great detail. Particularly the uniforms I'm guessing ...
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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The Emerald Legion
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9175
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:37 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
It's hardly ludicrous. The issue is most people don't actually know Jack shit about the Nazis.


Whereas you have studied them in great detail. Particularly the uniforms I'm guessing ...


In great detail? No. I liked History in school though, so I always read more than what we were required to learn. So I'm aware of the fact that Nazi politics by and large mirror the Democratic parties.

Hence why I'm not particularly fond of them.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

User avatar
Nobel Hobos 2
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6667
Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:38 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Whereas you have studied them in great detail. Particularly the uniforms I'm guessing ...


In great detail? No. I liked History in school though, so I always read more than what we were required to learn. So I'm aware of the fact that Nazi politics by and large mirror the Democratic parties.

Hence why I'm not particularly fond of them.


I see. And how much have you studied the Democratic party?
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

User avatar
The Greater Ohio Valley
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5613
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:38 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:So I'm aware of the fact that Nazi politics by and large mirror the Democratic parties.

Uh huh, sure. :roll:
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