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The Definition of War

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Rojava Free State
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The Definition of War

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Throughout human history, man has suffered from conflict. Whenever two people disagree on something, conflict is the natural result. While most conflicts range between a simple verbal disagreement and a physical fight, conflicts between groups of people often escalate into war. One issue that has plagued sociologists throughout time however is defining war. At what point is a conflict so severe, war describes it? Is it based on the number of deaths? Does it have to do with state involvement? Is it the number of combatants that matters? Growing up in an urban area with high poverty rates, violence was a common occurrence. Many refer to the violence in our cities as being "wars," and the question is, is that correct? Is the war in Chiraq for example really a war? In my opinion, chiraq is indeed in a state of war between the gangs. I define war as a conflict with defined sides who officially take up arms against each other. War isn't imo just between states, but also occurs within states between the state and guerilla fighters or between different paramilitary groups or gangs. What is your opinion Nationstates? What in your view counts as a war?
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:55 pm

You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:57 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.


But how large do the groups need to be. If two families in my town have anger issues with each other and begin killing each other, and everyday there's a violent confrontation between them involving guns till every last one of them is dead, does that count as a war?

So basically the Montagues and Capulets.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:59 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.


But how large do the groups need to be. If two families in my town have anger issues with each other and begin killing each other, and everyday there's a violent confrontation between them involving guns till every last one of them is dead, does that count as a war?

So basically the Montagues and Capulets.


Yes. You basically just described a Mob War.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
But how large do the groups need to be. If two families in my town have anger issues with each other and begin killing each other, and everyday there's a violent confrontation between them involving guns till every last one of them is dead, does that count as a war?

So basically the Montagues and Capulets.


Yes. You basically just described a Mob War.


I wonder if anyone has a different definition of war. Some people say the troubles in northern ireland for example were not a war while others say it was.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:01 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.

Only one side has to be hostile for there to be a conflict
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:03 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.

Only one side has to be hostile for there to be a conflict


For example, me swatting a fly on the wall.
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Postby Cisairse » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:04 pm

War is whatever comes next when somebody yells "This is war!" on a street.
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Nouveau Quebecois
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Postby Nouveau Quebecois » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:04 pm

I think the textbook definition sums it up nicely.
"A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:05 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:You basically already answered your own question.

War is armed, violent conflict between two large and hostile groups of people.

Only one side has to be hostile for there to be a conflict


No, that would be a massacre.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:05 pm

Nouveau Quebecois wrote:I think the textbook definition sums it up nicely.
"A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."


So if two guys start shooting at each other, that is a war? I feel like there's more to it than that.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Nouveau Quebecois
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Postby Nouveau Quebecois » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:06 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:I think the textbook definition sums it up nicely.
"A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."


So if two guys start shooting at each other, that is a war? I feel like there's more to it than that.

Well that isn't a "group" per-se, so no.

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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:07 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:I think the textbook definition sums it up nicely.
"A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."


So if two guys start shooting at each other, that is a war? I feel like there's more to it than that.


The definition clearly says "nations or states or different groups within a nation or state".

Since one man can't comprise a nation, state, or group I'd say two guys shooting at each other is just a gunfight and not a war.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
So if two guys start shooting at each other, that is a war? I feel like there's more to it than that.


The definition clearly says "nations or states or different groups within a nation or state".

Since one man can't comprise a nation, state, or group I'd say two guys shooting at each other is just a gunfight and not a war.


What about five on each side?
political compass:

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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Postby Auristania » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:12 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Yes. You basically just described a Mob War.


I wonder if anyone has a different definition of war. Some people say the troubles in northern ireland for example were not a war while others say it was.

Falklands War was officially defined as a "conflict" because soldiers get higher pay during "War".

So the definition of "War" is when soldiers get extra pay.

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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The definition clearly says "nations or states or different groups within a nation or state".

Since one man can't comprise a nation, state, or group I'd say two guys shooting at each other is just a gunfight and not a war.


What about five on each side?


Are they affiliated in any way? If not, it's just a firefight. If so, then it's a mob/gang war.
Last edited by Trollzyn the Infinite on Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Auristania wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
I wonder if anyone has a different definition of war. Some people say the troubles in northern ireland for example were not a war while others say it was.

Falklands War was officially defined as a "conflict" because soldiers get higher pay during "War".

So the definition of "War" is when soldiers get extra pay.


They actually vary the pay soldiers get when they're being shot at?
political compass:

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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Postby Kowani » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:18 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Auristania wrote:Falklands War was officially defined as a "conflict" because soldiers get higher pay during "War".

So the definition of "War" is when soldiers get extra pay.


They actually vary the pay soldiers get when they're being shot at?

Incentives, I assume.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Kowani wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
They actually vary the pay soldiers get when they're being shot at?

Incentives, I assume.


I didn't know till now that the Brits paid their soldiers less than usual during the Falkand War.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Postby Purple Rats » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:24 pm

Auristania wrote:Falklands War was officially defined as a "conflict" because soldiers get higher pay during "War".

So the definition of "War" is when soldiers get extra pay.


I doubt about that definition. If a authority says to their soldiers "you must go to war, or we will execute you", and not pay them, it will still be a war, not conflict.

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Postby US-SSR » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:25 pm

A war is an armed conflict between two sovereign entities. One may be attempting to acquire or assert its sovereignty as in a revolution or civil war. So, since terrorist groups or drug traffickers are not sovereign or asserting sovereignty, there is no actual war on terrorism or drugs.
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Postby Purple Rats » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:31 pm

US-SSR wrote:A war is an armed conflict between two sovereign entities. One may be attempting to acquire or assert its sovereignty as in a revolution or civil war. So, since terrorist groups or drug traffickers are not sovereign or asserting sovereignty, there is no actual war on terrorism or drugs.


"Terrorism" is anyway such a shady phrase. If normally speaking, someone says "terrorist", most people think about suicide bombers, these lunatics who drive their car to masses or this Paris thing in some concert...
On the other hand, in UK for example groups of people who never have any victims are also labeled as terrorist. Like animal rescues. Even those, who do not brake into anywhere, just share their ideas in internet...

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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:34 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:I think the textbook definition sums it up nicely.
"A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."


So if two guys start shooting at each other, that is a war? I feel like there's more to it than that.


1 person is by definition not a group.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:59 pm

US-SSR wrote:A war is an armed conflict between two sovereign entities. One may be attempting to acquire or assert its sovereignty as in a revolution or civil war. So, since terrorist groups or drug traffickers are not sovereign or asserting sovereignty, there is no actual war on terrorism or drugs.


They say in the definition though that war includes battles between groups within a country.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Auristania
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Postby Auristania » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:05 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Kowani wrote:Incentives, I assume.


I didn't know till now that the Brits paid their soldiers less than usual during the Falkand War.

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