LWDT IX: Discussing the Left From All Engels

[Deltia-]

warning: i am about to say something about this blm stuff.

Well, I sympathize with the plight of BLM, but frankly, its near impossible to fulfill all their demands within our lifetimes. Racism has, does and will always exist, and one way or another a racist will get into the police force and kill someone just on their skin color. The best way to stop this is not to stop racism, but to harshly punish police officers with death sentences or life in jail for doing something like killing a non-threatening person. That will deter the majority of racist cops from doing such things as they will lose their own lives if they do something stupid. To ensure this, fill juries with people proven to have no bias towards such offenders based on their race, gender, sexuality or whatever. This will act as a strong deterrent, in my opinion. There will be some outliers, but over time, police brutality would decrease.

[The Marlborough]

Some of it is just damn out there too - like the weird demand from the Seattle group to bring back segregation in medicine and education.

Just.... what?

Don’t know about the education stuff, but it is empirical fact that white doctors treat black patients worse than they do white ones (on average).

So only black medical staff should treat black people?

[Kowani]

warning: i am about to say something about this blm stuff.

Well, I sympathize with the plight of BLM, but frankly, its near impossible to fulfill all their demands within our lifetimes. Racism has, does and will always exist, and one way or another a racist will get into the police force and kill someone just on their skin color. The best way to stop this is not to stop racism, but to harshly punish police officers with death sentences or life in jail for doing something like killing a non-threatening person. That will deter the majority of racist cops from doing such things as they will lose their own lives if they do something stupid. To ensure this, fill juries with people proven to have no bias towards such offenders based on their race, gender, sexuality or whatever. This will act as a strong deterrent, in my opinion. There will be some outliers, but over time, police brutality would decrease.

Okay. This is a terrible idea.
Racism in the police force is mostly to do with grater cultural stereotypes and media perception of minorities, things which can be alleviated.

The death penalty is empirically not a deterrent.

As for jurors, rather than trying to find people who have no implicit bias whatsoever, just put at least one minority on the jury, and you see that conviction rate gap disappears entirely.

[Kowani]

Don’t know about the education stuff, but it is empirical fact that white doctors treat black patients worse than they do white ones (on average).

So only black medical staff should treat black people?

Well, no.
Less racism within the medical profession would be a better solution.

(Also, there aren’t enough black medical staff in the country for that to be feasible)

[The Marlborough]

So only black medical staff should treat black people?

Well, no.
Less racism within the medical profession would be a better solution.

(Also, there aren’t enough black medical staff in the country for that to be feasible)

That's what the demand is for and what Gallo is saying is ridiculous.

[Kowani]

Well, no.
Less racism within the medical profession would be a better solution.

(Also, there aren’t enough black medical staff in the country for that to be feasible)

That's what the demand is for and what Gallo is saying is ridiculous.

Oh, I agree with the idea that it’s ridiculous.

I was merely elaborating upon the fact that the grievance is a legitimate one.

[Duvniask]

I don't think this is exclusive to "identity politics", mind you. I certainly see a lot of Marxists and post-modernists doing the same: creating spaces which almost nobody would ever feel comfortable approaching because the requirements to be included are increasingly numerous, specific and restrictive.

To some extent these are viewpoints that are almost inevitably quite dense. If you want to approach them, you have to do at least some reading. I say this as someone who's not necessarily very fond of reading, although I try.

I don't think this is exclusive to "identity politics", mind you. I certainly see a lot of Marxists and post-modernists doing the same: creating spaces which almost nobody would ever feel comfortable approaching because the requirements to be included are increasingly numerous, specific and restrictive.

On the other hand the feds admitting that it's impossible to infiltrate leftist groups because the barrier to entry is so high was a major win for the movement.

In my experience, most lefties haven't read anything that should be too difficult to get into. These people are probably just incompetent, tbh.

I find it more curious that they "admit" to doing it in the first place, unless what you're talking about is some sort of leak.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

So only black medical staff should treat black people?

Well, no.
Less racism within the medical profession would be a better solution.

(Also, there aren’t enough black medical staff in the country for that to be feasible)

Are you sure it's about reducing racism rather than letting patients choose doctors by color?When people stop talking about color, it's when racism dies.If you keep saying that there are too few black doctors and too many white doctors, everyone will quarrel on this issue.And no one cares if these people are qualified doctors.

[Kowani]

Well, no.
Less racism within the medical profession would be a better solution.

(Also, there aren’t enough black medical staff in the country for that to be feasible)

Are you sure it's about reducing racism rather than letting patients choose doctors by color?

Yes.

When people stop talking about color, it's when racism dies.

“If we stopped talking about murder, there’d be no murder.”

If you keep saying that there are too few black doctors and too many white doctors, everyone will quarrel on this issue.And no one cares if these people are qualified doctors.

…Why on earth is it every time we say “we need more minority X” people always assume we want unqualified people in those positions?

I posit the radical theory that we want to eliminate the things like structural poverty, and hiring racism that make it harder for minorities to achieve success under capitalism.

[Novus America]

Some of it is just damn out there too - like the weird demand from the Seattle group to bring back segregation in medicine and education.

Just.... what?

Don’t know about the education stuff, but it is empirical fact that white doctors treat black patients worse than they do white ones (on average).

But the solution is not bringing back “separate but equal”.

[Novus America]

warning: i am about to say something about this blm stuff.

Well, I sympathize with the plight of BLM, but frankly, its near impossible to fulfill all their demands within our lifetimes. Racism has, does and will always exist, and one way or another a racist will get into the police force and kill someone just on their skin color. The best way to stop this is not to stop racism, but to harshly punish police officers with death sentences or life in jail for doing something like killing a non-threatening person. That will deter the majority of racist cops from doing such things as they will lose their own lives if they do something stupid. To ensure this, fill juries with people proven to have no bias towards such offenders based on their race, gender, sexuality or whatever. This will act as a strong deterrent, in my opinion. There will be some outliers, but over time, police brutality would decrease.

Okay. This is a terrible idea.
Racism in the police force is mostly to do with grater cultural stereotypes and media perception of minorities, things which can be alleviated.

The death penalty is empirically not a deterrent.

As for jurors, rather than trying to find people who have no implicit bias whatsoever, just put at least one minority on the jury, and you see that conviction rate gap disappears entirely.

Actually I am okay with having juries match the demographic makeup of the area, because jurors are just chosen randomly from the general population and do not need any real qualifications.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Don’t know about the education stuff, but it is empirical fact that white doctors treat black patients worse than they do white ones (on average).

But the solution is not bringing back “separate but equal”.

Horseshoe theory at its finest.

[Reploid Productions]

After considerable internal review by the moderation team (the official discussion began in mid-May, with off-and-on discussion as far back as last year), both the "Left Wing Discussion Thread" and the "Right Wing Discussion Thread" megathreads will be permanently closed going forward. While this is not a blanket ban on megathreads, it represents a tightening of the guidelines under which megathreads are acceptable and how they must operate.

What qualifies for a megathread?

• A topic which has at its focus a specific, singular subject, such as a current news event (IE: election thread, anti-police protests), a frequent recurring debate (IE: abortion, gun control), or a political figure (IE: the US president.)
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In short, both the "wing" threads fail both of these metrics. "Left wing" encompasses an enormous range of political ideologies and beliefs ranging from the mildest flavors of left-of-center social democracy clear out to the most extreme variants of communism. "Right wing" similarly encompasses an enormous range of political ideologies and beliefs ranging from mild right-of-center fiscal conservatism clear out to the most extreme flavors of fascism and nationalism. The "wings" are not topics so much as they are measuring tools, and both threads have demonstrated themselves to be prone to considerable off-topic socializing as a result of this overly-broad subject matter.

In addition, it has bred problematic cliques that have become insulated from rules enforcement due to an unfortunate combination of thread participants refusing to report (and even actively discouraging reporting of) rulebreaking conduct and thread outsiders being disinclined to dig into it to locate and report it. Moderation lacks the time and the manpower to babysit such threads personally, and thread regulars have proven repeatedly that they either can not or will not regulate themselves.

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