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RE: Would you support the Philippines or America?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would you support the Americans or the Filipinos?

Americans
6
38%
Filipinos
10
63%
 
Total votes : 16

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Las Islas de Metanoia
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Founded: Jan 10, 2020
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RE: Would you support the Philippines or America?

Postby Las Islas de Metanoia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:24 am

So there was this previous thread posited here...

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=482225

Wherein situation was put forth that in World War 2, Japanese-Americans were given a choice whether they would support Japan or the United States.

In relation to this, I just want to juxtapose the situation there to the Philippine-American War...

In which case, I checked out the Wikipedia page for the Philippine Revolutionary Army and Holy Shit there were an F ton of Foreigners mainly Spanish, Cuban and even Americans who deserted the Spanish or American side during the Philippine Revolution and Philippine-American war and joined the Filipinos instead. Here are some names and their original nationalities before joining the First Republic...

FRENCH

General Juan Cailles – Franco-Indian mestizo who led Filipino forces in Laguna[18]
Estaquio Castellor – French mestizo who led a battalion of sharpshooters.[18]

SPANISH

Brigadier General B. Natividad – Brigade Acting Commander in Vigan under General Tinio.[20]
General José Valesy Nazaraire – Spanish.[18]
Colonel Manuel Sityar – Half-Spanish Director of Academía Militar de Malolos. A former captain in the Spanish colonial army who defected to the Filipino side.[21]
Colonel Sebastian de Castro – Spanish director of the military hospital at Malasiqui, Pangasinan.[18]
Colonel Dámaso Ybarra y Thomas – Spanish.[18]
Lieutenant Colonel Potenciano Andrade – Spanish.[18]
Major Candido Reyes – Instructor at the Academía Militar de Malolos. Former sergeant in the Spanish Army.[22]
Major José Reyes – Instructor at the Academía Militar de Malolos. Former sergeant in the Spanish Army.[22]
Major José Torres Bugallón – Spanish officer who served under General Luna.[18]
Captain Antonio Costosa – Former officer in the Spanish Army.
Captain Francisco Espina – Spanish.[20]
Captain Estanislao de los Reyes – Spanish aide-de-camp to General Tinio.[20]
Captain Feliciano Ramoso – Spanish aide-de-camp to General Tinio.[20]
Captain Mariano Queri – Spanish officer who served under General Luna as an instructor in the Academía Militar de Malolos and later as the director-general of the staff of the war department.[18]
Captain Telesforo Centeno – Spanish.[18]
Lieutenant Maximino Lazo – Spanish.[18]
2nd Lieutenant Segundo Paz – Spanish.[18]
Lieutenant Alejandro Quirulgico – Spanish.[20]
Lieutenant Rafael Madina – Spanish.[20]
Lieutenant Arsenio Romero – Spanish.[20]
Antonio Prisco – Spanish.[18]
Manuel Alberto – Spanish.[18]
Eugenia Plona – Spanish aide-de-camp to Baldermo Aguinaldo.[18]

JAPANESE

Captain Tei Hara - Japanese officer who fought in the Philippine-American war with volunteer soldiers.[23]
Captain Chizuno Iwamoto - Japanese officer who served on Emilio Aguinaldo's staff.[24] Returned to Japan after Aguinaldo's capture.[24]
Lieutenant Saburo Nakamori - Japanese.[28]

CHINESE

Brigadier General José Ignacio Paua – Full-blooded Chinese general in the Army.[19]

CUBAN

Lieutenant Gabriel Badelly Méndez – Cuban.[18]
Captain Vicente Catalán – Flag officer in-Command of the Philippine Navy. A former member of the Royal Spanish Navy and was a Criollo from Cuba.

ITALIAN

Captain Camillo Richairdi – Italian.[18]

AMERICAN

Captain David Fagen – An African-American Captain who served under Brigadier General Urbano Lacuna. A former Corporal in United States Army 24th Colored Regiment.[25][26][27]
Captain Arthur Howard – American deserter from the 1st California Volunteers.[27]
Captain Glen Morgan – American who organized insurgent forces in central Mindanao.[27]
Captain John Miller – American who organized insurgent forces in central Mindanao.[27]
Captain Russel – American deserter from the 10th Infantry.[27]
Lieutenant Danfort – American deserter from the 10th Infantry.[27]
Private John Allane – United States Army.[29]
Private Harry Dennis – United States Army.[29]
Private William Hyer – United States Army.[30]
Private Meeks (given name not specified) – United States Army.[29]
Private George Raymond – 41st Infantry, United States Army.[citation needed]
Private Maurice Sibley – 16th Infantry, United States Army.[31]
Private John Wagner – United States Army.[29]
Private Edward Walpole – United States Army.[29]
Henry Richter – American deserter from the 9th Cavalry.[27]
Gorth Shores – American deserter from the 9th Cavalry.[27]
Fred Hunter – American deserter from the 9th Cavalry.[27]
William Denten – American deserter who joined General Lukban in Samar.[27]
Enrique Warren – American deserter who served under Francisco Makabulos in Tarlac.[27]

BRITISH

Alexander MacIntosh – English.[27]
William McAllister – English.[27]
Charles MacKinley – Englishman who served in Laoag.[27]
James O'Brian – English.[27]

SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippin ... servicemen

These are just the prominent officers in the revolutionary Army, thousands more are unnamed foreigners who joined the Filipinos too and disobeyed their own countrymen for that.

Makes one wonder...

To what extent would your ideals lead you? If for example you were sent to war in another country and your homeland propaganda painted them to be enemies and devils or subhumans. Like the Americans who left America before serving in the Philippines, initially thought that Filipinos were wild near monkeylike creatures like in this picture of Filipinos in a American Newspaper...

Image

William Mckinley was famous for saying that the Philippines needed to be conquered so that the Filipinos would be "Civilized, Christianized, Educated and Uplifted" and be taught democracy since they were barbarians.

And thus hundreds of thousands of Americans were shipped to the Philippines.

But upon arrival it turns out that their superiors' dehumanizing propaganda was a big fat lie. The Philippines was already home to civilizations and nations far older than America like the autonomous Sulu Sultanate or similarly autonomous Republic of Negros; the Spanish already Christianized the Philippines on the 1500s waay earlier than your ancestors Christianized America in the 1700s, the people were also the most educated in Asia since there was already mandatory Public Schooling decried by the Spanish Queen and the people uplifted themselves already by throwing off Spanish colonial yoke in a local revolution and they were already well versed in Democracy in that the First Philippine Republic was the first Constitutional Republic in Asia (There were older Republics in Asia of course like the Janapadas of India or the Lanfang Republic in Borneo, but the Philippines was the First Republic in Asia which had a full Constitution ironically based on the French and American constitutions)

So the question now is that considering the situation you are in, are you willing to betray your own countrymen knowing how they lied to you about an innocent people intending to murder them instead, and be like the thousands of Americans and Spaniards who defected to the Philippine Revolutionary Forces or would you rather stay with your own kind or would you rather stay with the occupying force and be a loyal patriot? Let's not take this situation in hindsight though, let's just say that you were there then and were only experiencing the Philippine-American War AS IS, instead of having the luxury of Hindsight on this issue. What would be your decision?

Point out the reasons why you would want to defect to the Filipinos or you would stay with America's occupying force.
Last edited by Las Islas de Metanoia on Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:29 pm

I would continue to fight for the American Empire. I would not betray the Americans.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:30 pm

Probably for the Philippines. Maybe shaving off that extra 50 years of colonialism would be the difference between many filipinos constantly trying to impress white people and Filipinos as an ethnicity actual being a proud people.

It's as bad as when my white friend Tyler calls people racial slurs that apply only to white people. Stop it, get some help.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Las Islas de Metanoia
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Founded: Jan 10, 2020
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Postby Las Islas de Metanoia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:53 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:I would continue to fight for the American Empire. I would not betray the Americans.


Whats the reason why you want to stay with the Americans? Blood loyalty? What if the situation is reversed wouldnt you rather Filipino invaders betray their own kind and join in defending America?

See the scenario here. We all want the enemy to be idealists sympathetic to us yet we wouldnt budge when we are the ones called to be the idealists.

My ancestors on my mom's side were rich Spanish dons for example yet we sided with the revotion instead of Spain because we fucking care about the people.
Last edited by Las Islas de Metanoia on Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Las Islas de Metanoia
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Founded: Jan 10, 2020
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Postby Las Islas de Metanoia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:55 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Probably for the Philippines. Maybe shaving off that extra 50 years of colonialism would be the difference between many filipinos constantly trying to impress white people and Filipinos as an ethnicity actual being a proud people.

It's as bad as when my white friend Tyler calls people racial slurs that apply only to white people. Stop it, get some help.


Yes mang. Interacial people really have a sharp sense of inequality and injustice aince we have to struggle with it everyday.

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:00 am

Las Islas de Metanoia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I would continue to fight for the American Empire. I would not betray the Americans.


Whats the reason why you want to stay with the Americans? Blood loyalty? What if the situation is reversed wouldnt you rather Filipino invaders betray their own kind and join in defending America?

See the scenario here. We all want the enemy to be idealists sympathetic to us yet we wouldnt budge when we are the ones called to be the idealists.

My ancestors on my mom's side were rich Spanish dons for example yet we sided with the revotion instead of Spain because we fucking care about the people.


The reason is that I would want to be loyal to America. I believe in Loyalty.

I don’t like the idea of going against my own people and government, it wouldn’t feel right.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Las Islas de Metanoia
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Founded: Jan 10, 2020
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Postby Las Islas de Metanoia » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:10 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Las Islas de Metanoia wrote:
Whats the reason why you want to stay with the Americans? Blood loyalty? What if the situation is reversed wouldnt you rather Filipino invaders betray their own kind and join in defending America?

See the scenario here. We all want the enemy to be idealists sympathetic to us yet we wouldnt budge when we are the ones called to be the idealists.

My ancestors on my mom's side were rich Spanish dons for example yet we sided with the revotion instead of Spain because we fucking care about the people.


The reason is that I would want to be loyal to America. I believe in Loyalty.

I don’t like the idea of going against my own people and government, it wouldn’t feel right.


But isnt justice a concept transcending race and nationality?

Maybe because youre a pure blood and would of course side with with majority of your fellow kin. However us half castes are more prone to take the opressed's side since we can pass off as acceptable to pure breds but we also know the pain that our enslaved mothers or fathers experience.

Likewise if you really had principles you would fight your own kind if you knew they were wrong.

Also, isnt it hypocritical of Americans not to be fair to Filipinos by some of you killing those who defected to the Revolution? Considering how much of America were British citizens who defected to the Revolutionaries too and had to be put down by English loyalists.

Its like America itself owed its existence to idealistic defectors but would stop and cry foul when their own people defect to Philippine Revolutionaries.
Last edited by Las Islas de Metanoia on Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:30 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Las Islas de Metanoia wrote:
Whats the reason why you want to stay with the Americans? Blood loyalty? What if the situation is reversed wouldnt you rather Filipino invaders betray their own kind and join in defending America?

See the scenario here. We all want the enemy to be idealists sympathetic to us yet we wouldnt budge when we are the ones called to be the idealists.

My ancestors on my mom's side were rich Spanish dons for example yet we sided with the revotion instead of Spain because we fucking care about the people.


The reason is that I would want to be loyal to America. I believe in Loyalty.

I don’t like the idea of going against my own people and government, it wouldn’t feel right.

Aren't you a Canadian?
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:03 am

Las Islas de Metanoia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The reason is that I would want to be loyal to America. I believe in Loyalty.

I don’t like the idea of going against my own people and government, it wouldn’t feel right.


But isnt justice a concept transcending race and nationality?

Maybe because youre a pure blood and would of course side with with majority of your fellow kin. However us half castes are more prone to take the opressed's side since we can pass off as acceptable to pure breds but we also know the pain that our enslaved mothers or fathers experience.

Likewise if you really had principles you would fight your own kind if you knew they were wrong.

Also, isnt it hypocritical of Americans not to be fair to Filipinos by some of you killing those who defected to the Revolution? Considering how much of America were British citizens who defected to the Revolutionaries too and had to be put down by English loyalists.

Its like America itself owed its existence to idealistic defectors but would stop and cry foul when their own people defect to Philippine Revolutionaries.


I’m not actually American, I’m only imagining if I were in your hypothetical.

Now it’s interesting you bring up the American Revolution, when I read about that... I feel sympathy for the Loyalists and the British Empire.

As for this scenario... I’m only trying to stay in character. I mean, in this situation I was born and raised in America (so I’m very strongly indoctrinated in American exceptionalism etc). And apparently I joined the military too.

So then why would I betray my people when the fighting starts?

I usually side with the empire because I lean towards order and stability. In this alternate reality, probably even more so

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Communist Party of the Philippines
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Founded: Dec 03, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Communist Party of the Philippines » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 am

I would definitely support the Filipinos for two reasons
a. I'm a Filipino. (Well.... as the name suggest)
b. The fact that they are trying to keep us from being independent is kind of OTP. (over the top)

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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 am

The Filipino saw the conflict as a continuation for their fight for independence fropm the Spanish, which the US had assisted with due to their enmity for the Spanish in CUba and Puerto Rico. But the Americans went full imperialist, made a backroom deal with Spain (Treaty of Paris) and decided that they had a god-given right and duty to own the Phillipines so they could civilise the poor non-christian natives.

On that basis alone I’d koin the Katipunan

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Britannia Maior
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Founded: Jan 24, 2020
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Postby Britannia Maior » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:41 am

If I was the same if not similar kind of person that I am today, then I would forsake Uncle Sam and do my part to help the Filipinos achieve their much-deserved Liberty. The hypocrisy of America would’ve sickened me and honestly America can’t be trusted to lord over any other nation. Just look at white exclusivism that was practiced just over fifty years ago, and in some places can be argued it continues today. Yes, I’d sooner join in arms with the good Filipinos than the inhuman American crooks.
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