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Hungarian democracy in quarantine?

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The Narnian Council
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Hungarian democracy in quarantine?

Postby The Narnian Council » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:12 am

Did the PM of Hungary, Viktor Orban, just use COVID-19 to pull a Palpatine?

Looks like democracy there has gone into quarantine. Prominent voices in the EU are now calling for the country’s ejection from the Union (uncharted territory). Like an unhappy marriage, this issue has been building for years, it’s not a one-off event, and I believe Orban knew exactly the reaction it would provoke.

Guardian Article:
Hungary’s parliament has passed a new set of coronavirus measures that includes jail terms for spreading misinformation and gives no clear time limit to a state of emergency that allows the nationalist prime minister, Viktor Orbán, to rule by decree.
Parliament voted by 137 to 53 to pass the measures on Monday afternoon, with the two-thirds majority enjoyed by Orbán’s Fidesz party enough to push them through in spite of opposition from other parties, which had demanded a time limit or sunset clause on the legislation.
The bill introduces jail terms of up to five years for intentionally spreading misinformation that hinders the government response to the pandemic, leading to fears that it could be used to censor or self-censor criticism of the government response.

Source.
Last edited by The Narnian Council on Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:26 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:13 am

Any articles that don't have a paywall?

Also, you'll want to beef up your OP.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:14 am

The Narnian Council wrote:Did the PM of Hungary, Viktor Orban, just use COVID-19 to pull a Palpatine?

Looks like democracy there has gone into quarantine.

News article.


He will lay down those powers once the crisis has been abated.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:16 am

Nakena wrote:
The Narnian Council wrote:Did the PM of Hungary, Viktor Orban, just use COVID-19 to pull a Palpatine?

Looks like democracy there has gone into quarantine.

News article.


He will lay down those powers once the crisis has been abated.

There's no reason to think he won't -it's not like he's not a powerhungry populist and more importantly a politician.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:18 am

North German Realm wrote:
Nakena wrote:
He will lay down those powers once the crisis has been abated.

There's no reason to think he won't -it's not like he's not a powerhungry populist and more importantly a politician.


I too, love democracy and the Republic.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:19 am

I was scared of Trump doing something like that here. Fortunately, the commander in chief doesn't actually know what he's doing and is spending more time starting Twitter wars than waging war on our freedom.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:22 am

Rojava Free State wrote:I was scared of Trump doing something like that here. Fortunately, the commander in chief doesn't actually know what he's doing and is spending more time starting Twitter wars than waging war on our freedom.

The only saving grace of the US right now is that where Trump isn't a genius, he's an undeniable moron.
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North Germany
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Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
So this is the new trend huh
24 May, 2020
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: Turkish-Syrian Conflict Mutates into Regional Bloodbath! || Constantinople falls to Turkish horde! Countless people in Europe protest illegal Turkish act of aggression, call for 'just punishment' as support for joining war against Turkey skyrockets in most of European Society. | New law decriminalizes burning state, foreign flags, protested by conservatives. | Hungarian state refuses to sign treaty of population exchange with Serbia, continues to attack Serbian minority settlements in newly-acquired territory with flamethrowers. | Archduke of Austria crowned King in Croatia after Croatian Parliament votes in favor.

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Bulgar Rouge
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Postby Bulgar Rouge » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:23 am

Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?

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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:24 am

Bulgar Rouge wrote:Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?

Ignoring the actions Greece has taken this last few weeks, they pretty much are though.
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
So this is the new trend huh
24 May, 2020
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: Turkish-Syrian Conflict Mutates into Regional Bloodbath! || Constantinople falls to Turkish horde! Countless people in Europe protest illegal Turkish act of aggression, call for 'just punishment' as support for joining war against Turkey skyrockets in most of European Society. | New law decriminalizes burning state, foreign flags, protested by conservatives. | Hungarian state refuses to sign treaty of population exchange with Serbia, continues to attack Serbian minority settlements in newly-acquired territory with flamethrowers. | Archduke of Austria crowned King in Croatia after Croatian Parliament votes in favor.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:27 am

Bulgar Rouge wrote:Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?


Name your worst offender.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:27 am

North German Realm wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:I was scared of Trump doing something like that here. Fortunately, the commander in chief doesn't actually know what he's doing and is spending more time starting Twitter wars than waging war on our freedom.

The only saving grace of the US right now is that where Trump isn't a genius, he's an undeniable moron.

Indeed. A more intelligent authoritarian could probably be more problematic for our institutions.

As for Hungry, it will probably head for hybrid regime status.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:32 am

Nakena wrote:
Bulgar Rouge wrote:Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?


Name your worst offender.


To be fair, the UK has done some pretty messed up stuff, and yes I know they aren't in the EU anymore, but they were not long ago.
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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:34 am

In the interest of complete information ... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/worl ... power.html
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:38 am

Bulgar Rouge wrote:Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?


So what other EU nations have handed their head of government an unlimited and indefinite ability to rule by decree?
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Bulgar Rouge
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Postby Bulgar Rouge » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:45 am

Nakena wrote:
Bulgar Rouge wrote:Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?


Name your worst offender.


North German Realm wrote:Ignoring the actions Greece has taken this last few weeks, they pretty much are though.


Vassenor wrote:So what other EU nations have handed their head of government an unlimited and indefinite ability to rule by decree?


Bulgaria is far worse than Hungary in terms of media freedom (111th vs 87th for Hungary) and recently implemented a similar law, however it's not at all limited to the current state of emergency. Authorities will be able to request surveillance and eavesdropping without a court order even after the state of emergency expires. In fact, a legislative change would have allowed arrest for pretty much everything as there is no legal definition of "false information", but the President vetoed the proposal. There is no rule by decree, but Parliament was suspended and a convened session does not really guarantee that a proposal will pass. It's an institution that already rigs legislation through changes in transitional and final provisions of proposals.

All this in a country where the attorney general openly says that he does not believe in the separation of powers.

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Singaporean Transhumans wrote:I'm only saying that, well, even commies have reached the level of selling counterfeit and drugs in their storefronts, we can't be any less.

The Holy Therns wrote:Politicians make statements. It's their substitute for achievement.

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Swindenland
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Postby Swindenland » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:07 am

I suggest we kick all Eastern European countries out of the EU except for Slovenia and the Czech Republic ;)
Last edited by Swindenland on Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kargintina the Third
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Postby Kargintina the Third » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:18 am

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Harkback Union
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Postby Harkback Union » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:25 am

Hey, I'm from hungry Hungary.

Orban is your average post-soviet politician, all talk no action. I don't like him, a lot of people dont like him, but the opposition is so bad that he's pretty much the only choice here. Orban is definately not your democratic reformer, but he is no palpatine or trump. People like to demonize him in the EU and the states to divert attention from their own crooked business. Hungary is LESS authoritarian then most western countries. We dont imprison or extradite whistleblowers, no mass surveillance or war on drugs, no blocked websites, heck, software and movie piracy is rampant.

Sure, he's corrupt, his party is getting very rich from his 3rd term, but he's not a neo-liberal sellout, he's not using the pandemic to give trillions in handouts to billionares, and also he doesn't really have any kind of insurance of winning the next election. Voters can swing really fast in this country. If he fucks up the crisis, he can look for a new job, so the government here is taking this seriously, although so far it doesn't seem like they've been effective at combatting the virus in its early stage.

Now, about the bill, its not at all significant given that he could pretty much pass anything he wanted anyway:

Image

Its not so much rule by decree as him invoking the defense productiona act. Its not like Orban has killer drones assasinating people he doesn't like. That is reserved for "democratic countries".

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Bulgar Rouge
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Postby Bulgar Rouge » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:25 am

Swindenland wrote:I suggest we kick all Eastern European countries out of the EU except for Slovenia and the Czech Republic ;)


The EU won't exactly prosper with the morally (and soon fiscally) bankrupt Western ones either.

This nation does not reflect my RL views.
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:I'm only saying that, well, even commies have reached the level of selling counterfeit and drugs in their storefronts, we can't be any less.

The Holy Therns wrote:Politicians make statements. It's their substitute for achievement.

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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:57 am

Farnhamia wrote:In the interest of complete information ... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/worl ... power.html


love to see it
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Postby Diopolis » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:58 am

Good for Orban. I was wondering when he would take the next step.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:00 pm

It takes a special kind of idiot to engage in a political struggle in times of life and death. And sadly that is at show here. The EU has shown a consistent pattern of using any and all excuses they can find to attack those among their ranks that they perceive as the enemy. And with their defiance of EU decisions such as those relating to the migrant crisis Hungary is right near the top of that list.

To anyone living in Europe and looking at the news this sort of thing is absolutely nothing new.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:01 pm

Diopolis wrote:Good for Orban. I was wondering when he would take the next step.


What would be the last?
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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:02 pm

Nakena wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Good for Orban. I was wondering when he would take the next step.


What would be the last?


Genocide & world domination
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 pm

Harkback Union wrote:Hey, I'm from hungry Hungary.

Orban is your average post-soviet politician, all talk no action. I don't like him, a lot of people dont like him, but the opposition is so bad that he's pretty much the only choice here. Orban is definately not your democratic reformer, but he is no palpatine or trump. People like to demonize him in the EU and the states to divert attention from their own crooked business. Hungary is LESS authoritarian then most western countries. We dont imprison or extradite whistleblowers, no mass surveillance or war on drugs, no blocked websites, heck, software and movie piracy is rampant.

Sure, he's corrupt, his party is getting very rich from his 3rd term, but he's not a neo-liberal sellout, he's not using the pandemic to give trillions in handouts to billionares, and also he doesn't really have any kind of insurance of winning the next election. Voters can swing really fast in this country. If he fucks up the crisis, he can look for a new job, so the government here is taking this seriously, although so far it doesn't seem like they've been effective at combatting the virus in its early stage.

Now, about the bill, its not at all significant given that he could pretty much pass anything he wanted anyway:

(Image)

Its not so much rule by decree as him invoking the defense productiona act. Its not like Orban has killer drones assasinating people he doesn't like. That is reserved for "democratic countries".


So it's not authoritarian to give yourself an unlimited and indefinite power to bypass the legislature. Also loving the repeated invocations of "and you are lynching negroes" in this post.
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