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Selling Out Your Dreams for Cold Hard Cash

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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 16914
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Selling Out Your Dreams for Cold Hard Cash

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:00 am

Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was a youtuber. I first joined YouTube in 2011 and began posting videos later that year. At first it was Roblox game plays that were viewed by 10 people in almost 10 cities, but later on I began vlogging my day to day life. I never was a big youtuber. I got 100 subscribers and several hundred to 1000 views per video, but I used to enjoy what I did. There came a point that I even started doing animated sketches on my channel in the style of Gulleyboy (go check his ass out). However, eventually I came to hate it. I always felt like I had to post videos on youtube and sometimes people were less than fans of certain videos I made. In fall of 2018, I privatized virtually all of my videos and have not uploaded to the channel since then.

I never intended to make YouTube a career. I never expected to be anywhere near what Markiplier or Blastphemous HD TV were, and I only did youtube for fun. Money never was involved. Until now. Recently a friend of mine who we will refer to as "DeMarcus Bowie" (that's not his real name but it's an alias he took up when I interviewed him once for a video on my YouTube channel) texted me and said he wanted to bring back "Troll Bros." My heart sank when I read the text. He continued by telling me that he wanted to redo the animated videos I made, but make them into actual "animes." He said he already hired an animator and a screenplay writer, and when I asked him how he paid them, he told me that he planned to get sponsors for the channel and told them he would pay them once money started rolling in. He also directed them to bring more people on and have those people bring more people onto the channel, which I pointed out was basically a pyramid scheme that was doomed to fail. However he has continued to beg me to join in on this YouTube channel revival in the form of an anime series.

I don't appreciate what he's doing for multiple reasons. Partially it's because he's promising people money that he currently doesn't have. Partially it's that he keeps having more people brought on because...reasons. But mostly it's because he's taking my intellectual property and trying to make a cash cow out of it. I made clear to him that money was never the reason I did YouTube and that even though I wasnt making videos anymore, I still took offense to him using my ideas for (potential) profit. He told me that we would have to "modify" the content to make it more "family friendly" so ads would run on the video and I really lost it then. I told him that this was how channels die. You start doing things for the sponsors and pretty soon they're telling you what to do with your content. You lose control of your own channel to corporate desire and eventually you're working for them. They've got control of you. He disagreed and said this would be how the channel got big, showing a clear lack of understanding as to what I was saying.

This is a problem that plagues many youtubers these days. When youtube becomes a job for someone and they need ad money, they often have to modify their message to please their corporate overlords. You have to make sure that your content cant possibly offend anyone, because big business doesn't want to be associated with the firestorm something you did started. Pretty soon you become devoted 100% to being an "unboxing" channel because anything else risks offending more than five people. Another issue with many youtubers is how they hire other people to produce their videos and soon they're basically working for them. Someone else wrote your script for you. Someone else chose the location you're gonna film in. Do you even have control over your channel anymore?

In my opinion, it is a bad idea to make a career out of your channel. Other people will take control of your intellectual property and will change it and edit it till it doesn't remotely resemble what you originally started out with. You may become famous, but the original reason you started being a youtuber is all but gone, that reason being you wanted to express yourself. What are your thoughts citizens of Nationstate? Is anyone else a youtuber? Does anyone know anybody who tried to make YouTube a job? If you're a youtube partner, do you rely on YouTube for income? Would you ever let a big company control a product of any sort that you created (youtube or not) in exchange for some money and recognition? Let me know your thoughts below.
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Sundiata » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:01 pm

Whatever work someone does, it should be done with dignity.

Workers should receive a wage that's enough to support them and their family at a minimum.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:13 pm

why tf do you think i'm in banking - no one does this job because they dream of being an excel monkey
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:54 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:why tf do you think i'm in banking - no one does this job because they dream of being an excel monkey


Reminds me of the office, how many of the characters in the show said they didnt wanna work at Dunder Mifflin forever and hated their job.
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Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:27 pm

Yeah, no, fuck that guy. He's not your friend. He's an idiot with a get-rich-quick scheme he needs you to complete. Kick his ass to the curb and let him suffer for his own stupidity.

To answer your question though: no, I would never surrender my intellectual property to someone else. Not so long as I live and breath. Creations belong to their creators, who must protect and preserve them purely. Selling out only destroys what was once great.
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Saiwania
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Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:47 pm

Well, Youtube isn't what I'd call a "real" job, but if you managed to make money from it- good for you.

But remember that Google is still the owner of that website. You're kind of at the mercy of their whims, in that they can change the rules on you at any time, which is why its much wasted words to complain about demonetization and all that. Don't like the platform? There is no choice but to find a different one or to make your own, if you can't make someone else's platform work for your benefit as well as theirs.

I'd say its purely a business decision. If you just plain don't want to do it anymore and think that someone else can do it better, you can go the George Lucas route and sell out if you think the payout is worth it to you. If however, you still want to control your IP and know that its still in better hands with you in control- then you shouldn't sell.

If you do sell, it doesn't mean that you have to quit Youtube forever. You can always start on a completely new/different project. Just that it isn't a given that you can always replicate success.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Iron Wizards of Gulazkaban
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Founded: Mar 29, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Iron Wizards of Gulazkaban » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:54 pm

You may not have done it for money, but then you didn’t state what you did it for. Artistic purposes, I suppose, but then I guess you don’t really care about viewership.

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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:55 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:why tf do you think i'm in banking - no one does this job because they dream of being an excel monkey


Reminds me of the office, how many of the characters in the show said they didnt wanna work at Dunder Mifflin forever and hated their job.


banking is the office except you work 80 hours a week and everyone wants to kill each other or has an addiction
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:25 pm

How much cash we talking about, give me 15 million he can do whatever he wants with my idea. 1 cent a view, not so much
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:29 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Yeah, no, fuck that guy. He's not your friend. He's an idiot with a get-rich-quick scheme he needs you to complete. Kick his ass to the curb and let him suffer for his own stupidity.

To answer your question though: no, I would never surrender my intellectual property to someone else. Not so long as I live and breath. Creations belong to their creators, who must protect and preserve them purely. Selling out only destroys what was once great.

I mean, you say that but that's exactly how IP's work in the entertainment industry.

You're either contracted to work on a project or you have to sell the idea to the network or production company you're working with. TV channels and streaming services for example, people go to them and pitch their idea, and if those ideas are accepted than the creator of said idea/IP has to give it up to the network and basically have to let them do whatever they want with it. It's practices like this that are the reason why The Simpsons, Family Guy, SpongeBob, etc... have been allowed to go on so long despite the original creators leaving or dying, or why shows like, Teen Titans Go, Powerpuff Girls 2016, Thundercats Roar, etc... are allowed to exist without any input or signoff from the OG creators.
Last edited by New haven america on Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:29 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was a youtuber. I first joined YouTube in 2011 and began posting videos later that year. At first it was Roblox game plays that were viewed by 10 people in almost 10 cities, but later on I began vlogging my day to day life. I never was a big youtuber. I got 100 subscribers and several hundred to 1000 views per video, but I used to enjoy what I did. There came a point that I even started doing animated sketches on my channel in the style of Gulleyboy (go check his ass out). However, eventually I came to hate it. I always felt like I had to post videos on youtube and sometimes people were less than fans of certain videos I made. In fall of 2018, I privatized virtually all of my videos and have not uploaded to the channel since then.

I never intended to make YouTube a career. I never expected to be anywhere near what Markiplier or Blastphemous HD TV were, and I only did youtube for fun. Money never was involved. Until now. Recently a friend of mine who we will refer to as "DeMarcus Bowie" (that's not his real name but it's an alias he took up when I interviewed him once for a video on my YouTube channel) texted me and said he wanted to bring back "Troll Bros." My heart sank when I read the text. He continued by telling me that he wanted to redo the animated videos I made, but make them into actual "animes." He said he already hired an animator and a screenplay writer, and when I asked him how he paid them, he told me that he planned to get sponsors for the channel and told them he would pay them once money started rolling in. He also directed them to bring more people on and have those people bring more people onto the channel, which I pointed out was basically a pyramid scheme that was doomed to fail. However he has continued to beg me to join in on this YouTube channel revival in the form of an anime series.

I don't appreciate what he's doing for multiple reasons. Partially it's because he's promising people money that he currently doesn't have. Partially it's that he keeps having more people brought on because...reasons. But mostly it's because he's taking my intellectual property and trying to make a cash cow out of it. I made clear to him that money was never the reason I did YouTube and that even though I wasnt making videos anymore, I still took offense to him using my ideas for (potential) profit. He told me that we would have to "modify" the content to make it more "family friendly" so ads would run on the video and I really lost it then. I told him that this was how channels die. You start doing things for the sponsors and pretty soon they're telling you what to do with your content. You lose control of your own channel to corporate desire and eventually you're working for them. They've got control of you. He disagreed and said this would be how the channel got big, showing a clear lack of understanding as to what I was saying.

This is a problem that plagues many youtubers these days. When youtube becomes a job for someone and they need ad money, they often have to modify their message to please their corporate overlords. You have to make sure that your content cant possibly offend anyone, because big business doesn't want to be associated with the firestorm something you did started. Pretty soon you become devoted 100% to being an "unboxing" channel because anything else risks offending more than five people. Another issue with many youtubers is how they hire other people to produce their videos and soon they're basically working for them. Someone else wrote your script for you. Someone else chose the location you're gonna film in. Do you even have control over your channel anymore?

In my opinion, it is a bad idea to make a career out of your channel. Other people will take control of your intellectual property and will change it and edit it till it doesn't remotely resemble what you originally started out with. You may become famous, but the original reason you started being a youtuber is all but gone, that reason being you wanted to express yourself. What are your thoughts citizens of Nationstate? Is anyone else a youtuber? Does anyone know anybody who tried to make YouTube a job? If you're a youtube partner, do you rely on YouTube for income? Would you ever let a big company control a product of any sort that you created (youtube or not) in exchange for some money and recognition? Let me know your thoughts below.

Have you considered that the criticisms you are making of YouTube apply to possibly every other sort of creative job under capitalism, and to a degree to every job under capitalism?
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Shofercia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:26 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Once upon a time, a long time ago, I was a youtuber. I first joined YouTube in 2011 and began posting videos later that year. At first it was Roblox game plays that were viewed by 10 people in almost 10 cities, but later on I began vlogging my day to day life. I never was a big youtuber. I got 100 subscribers and several hundred to 1000 views per video, but I used to enjoy what I did. There came a point that I even started doing animated sketches on my channel in the style of Gulleyboy (go check his ass out). However, eventually I came to hate it. I always felt like I had to post videos on youtube and sometimes people were less than fans of certain videos I made. In fall of 2018, I privatized virtually all of my videos and have not uploaded to the channel since then.

I never intended to make YouTube a career. I never expected to be anywhere near what Markiplier or Blastphemous HD TV were, and I only did youtube for fun. Money never was involved. Until now. Recently a friend of mine who we will refer to as "DeMarcus Bowie" (that's not his real name but it's an alias he took up when I interviewed him once for a video on my YouTube channel) texted me and said he wanted to bring back "Troll Bros." My heart sank when I read the text. He continued by telling me that he wanted to redo the animated videos I made, but make them into actual "animes." He said he already hired an animator and a screenplay writer, and when I asked him how he paid them, he told me that he planned to get sponsors for the channel and told them he would pay them once money started rolling in. He also directed them to bring more people on and have those people bring more people onto the channel, which I pointed out was basically a pyramid scheme that was doomed to fail. However he has continued to beg me to join in on this YouTube channel revival in the form of an anime series.

I don't appreciate what he's doing for multiple reasons. Partially it's because he's promising people money that he currently doesn't have. Partially it's that he keeps having more people brought on because...reasons. But mostly it's because he's taking my intellectual property and trying to make a cash cow out of it. I made clear to him that money was never the reason I did YouTube and that even though I wasnt making videos anymore, I still took offense to him using my ideas for (potential) profit. He told me that we would have to "modify" the content to make it more "family friendly" so ads would run on the video and I really lost it then. I told him that this was how channels die. You start doing things for the sponsors and pretty soon they're telling you what to do with your content. You lose control of your own channel to corporate desire and eventually you're working for them. They've got control of you. He disagreed and said this would be how the channel got big, showing a clear lack of understanding as to what I was saying.

This is a problem that plagues many youtubers these days. When youtube becomes a job for someone and they need ad money, they often have to modify their message to please their corporate overlords. You have to make sure that your content cant possibly offend anyone, because big business doesn't want to be associated with the firestorm something you did started. Pretty soon you become devoted 100% to being an "unboxing" channel because anything else risks offending more than five people. Another issue with many youtubers is how they hire other people to produce their videos and soon they're basically working for them. Someone else wrote your script for you. Someone else chose the location you're gonna film in. Do you even have control over your channel anymore?

In my opinion, it is a bad idea to make a career out of your channel. Other people will take control of your intellectual property and will change it and edit it till it doesn't remotely resemble what you originally started out with. You may become famous, but the original reason you started being a youtuber is all but gone, that reason being you wanted to express yourself. What are your thoughts citizens of Nationstate? Is anyone else a youtuber? Does anyone know anybody who tried to make YouTube a job? If you're a youtube partner, do you rely on YouTube for income? Would you ever let a big company control a product of any sort that you created (youtube or not) in exchange for some money and recognition? Let me know your thoughts below.


Your "friend" sounds like an asshole, who wants to sell your reputation for his profit. That's fucked up, so I'd give him a stern talking to, and then dump his ass if he persists. You're not just being asked to sell your dreams for cash, you're being asked to sell your name for a pyramid scheme. That's just fucked up.


Bear Stearns wrote:why tf do you think i'm in banking - no one does this job because they dream of being an excel monkey


I love my job; granted, it involves Excel and problem solving, rather than running the same mind-numbing algorithm over and over and over again, based on minute changes in the market place. Do you at least get paid for the 80 hours, or is it just a 40 hour payscale, with the rest required as "effort" or some such bullshit, where a company dinner is worth more than your yearly salary?


Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Yeah, no, fuck that guy. He's not your friend. He's an idiot with a get-rich-quick scheme he needs you to complete. Kick his ass to the curb and let him suffer for his own stupidity.

To answer your question though: no, I would never surrender my intellectual property to someone else. Not so long as I live and breath. Creations belong to their creators, who must protect and preserve them purely. Selling out only destroys what was once great.


I'll gladly sell mine for the right price.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:57 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:why tf do you think i'm in banking - no one does this job because they dream of being an excel monkey


I love my job; granted, it involves Excel and problem solving, rather than running the same mind-numbing algorithm over and over and over again, based on minute changes in the market place. Do you at least get paid for the 80 hours, or is it just a 40 hour payscale, with the rest required as "effort" or some such bullshit, where a company dinner is worth more than your yearly salary?


Compensation is annual salary + yearly bonus. There are no "hours", but there are just insane deadlines on several projects.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:01 pm

Isn't there some shitty ass company that, given a video starts trending, contacts you and offers to further market the video in return for the rights and they pay you some ridiculously low fee per view, basically taking advantage of people and then they own the complete rights the the video of your child falling over or something and basically pay you nothing.
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The Republic of Fore
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Founded: Apr 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Republic of Fore » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Sundiata wrote:Whatever work someone does, it should be done with dignity.

Workers should receive a wage that's enough to support them and their family at a minimum.

No, they should receive the wage they're worth. If they want to be paid more they should make themselves worth more.

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Albennia
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Founded: Feb 16, 2018
Conservative Democracy

Postby Albennia » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:47 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Whatever work someone does, it should be done with dignity.

Workers should receive a wage that's enough to support them and their family at a minimum.

No, they should receive the wage they're worth. If they want to be paid more they should make themselves worth more.

People are worth more than anyone can pay.
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New haven america
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Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:51 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Whatever work someone does, it should be done with dignity.

Workers should receive a wage that's enough to support them and their family at a minimum.

No, they should receive the wage they're worth. If they want to be paid more they should make themselves worth more.

If you were to sell the average healthy person from a developed country then you'd be paying ~$2 million.

There are sites that fight against human trafficking and have the rates of what people could theoretically be worth.
Last edited by New haven america on Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Risottia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Risottia » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:59 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Would you ever let a big company control a product of any sort that you created (youtube or not) in exchange for some money and recognition? Let me know your thoughts below.

A product I made and didn't make money... someone else wants to buy it and give me money for it? Screw the recognition, gimme the money.
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Las Islas de Metanoia
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Postby Las Islas de Metanoia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:04 am

:blink:

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The Free Joy State
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Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:33 am

Sundiata wrote:Whatever work someone does, it should be done with dignity.

Workers should receive a wage that's enough to support them and their family at a minimum.

Not what the OP's asking. The OP's asking if you would give up creative control over something you made in exchange for money and some recognition.

To answer the question of the OP, it depends. It depends if enough of the original work would remain and if the final product would be something I would want other people to see my name attached to.

In the example given, no fucking way and the scheme sounds really shady.

But, to use a writer as an example, would they be taking their literary story of heartache and betrayal set in South Carolina and asking to take out Uncle Edwin who doesn't do anything but sit in the background making funny but unimportant comments, sharpen the dialogue and trim a few expository scenes... I would personally not consider them unreasonable changes. Removing the betrayal and heartache to make it a pre-teen fiction about a lovesick girl with a crush on a vampire... That would probably be a "no way" for most. It would certainly be a "no way" for me, if I ever found myself in the position to decide.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ayytaly
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Postby Ayytaly » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:35 am

How is being a YouTube personality even a job?
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Old Zealand Founder
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Postby Old Zealand Founder » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:40 am

Ayytaly wrote:How is being a YouTube personality even a job?

You can make ad revenue from the content you create, and sponsorships can net you a lot of fat $$$. Some medium sized channels get $10,000 or so from Raid: Shadow Legends even though it's a mediocre game.

The problem is, are you willing to completely sell your channel to sponsors (I like to call them investors, because that's what they are basically) in exchange for cold hard cash?
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Postby Juristonia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:58 am

Ayytaly wrote:How is being a YouTube personality even a job?

You put labour in to making a thing, and then you get money for said thing.
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Postby Shofercia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:15 am

Ayytaly wrote:How is being a YouTube personality even a job?


It's quite easy, so let's take a prominent YouTuber, Mark Dice as an example. Whether or not you agree or disagree with him, as far as YouTuber's go, he's definitely prominent. He's got 1.54 million subscribers, and uses his channel to advertise books that he writes and publishes, which range from the trollish "Liberalism: Find a Cure" to the more serious "The True Story of Fake News" which documents how the mass media lies, and the rise of alternative media. He probably made half a mil on the Fake News book alone, which he wouldn't have been able to successfully promote without his YouTube channel. In that aspect, he's no different than an entrepreneur running his business. Whether or not you think YouTube's a job - it actually is a job.

And yes, most of us use it for entertainment. And most of us who ski, enjoy downhill skiing, but aren't doing it at a competitive level, so it's not our job, it's our hobby. Same goes for YouTube. For most of us it's a hobby; for some it's a job.
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Postby New haven america » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:45 am

Shofercia wrote:
Ayytaly wrote:How is being a YouTube personality even a job?


It's quite easy, so let's take a prominent YouTuber, Mark Dice as an example. Whether or not you agree or disagree with him, as far as YouTuber's go, he's definitely prominent. He's got 1.54 million subscribers, and uses his channel to advertise books that he writes and publishes, which range from the trollish "Liberalism: Find a Cure" to the more serious "The True Story of Fake News" which documents how the mass media lies, and the rise of alternative media. He probably made half a mil on the Fake News book alone, which he wouldn't have been able to successfully promote without his YouTube channel. In that aspect, he's no different than an entrepreneur running his business. Whether or not you think YouTube's a job - it actually is a job.

And yes, most of us use it for entertainment. And most of us who ski, enjoy downhill skiing, but aren't doing it at a competitive level, so it's not our job, it's our hobby. Same goes for YouTube. For most of us it's a hobby; for some it's a job.

It used to be super easy, but then YouTube changed its algorithms, reward system, advertising rates, etc...

It's still possible to make good money off of YouTube, but it requires much more work and dedication that it used to.
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