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[DRAFT] Nothing As Civil...

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[DRAFT] Nothing As Civil...

Postby Chan Island » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:20 pm

Years ago, I wanted to make a series of issues about anarchies, however ultimately that failed when people pointed out that anarchies aren't necessarily violent. While I've long forgotten most of them, this idea still hung around, and with Venezuela last year reminding me big time of this prospect, it's time for a real stab at it.

EDIT: This idea is not specifically about anarchies.
------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been a disastrous past couple of hours. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, a popular but maverick @@DENONYM@@ politician, has declared himself the new leader of the nation, complete with a ready-made parallel government. Worse, some of the eastern cities and a military brigade have defected to the pretender's cause. There's a hint of a feeling that now is the time for urgent decisions before this catastrophe spells the end of your tenure in the top office.

validity: all

[option] "If we don't do something, these rebels will overrun the country!" calls Commander @@RANDOMNAME@@ from the local military garrison, while reloading a gun. "But we can still fix this! Give us the order and my troops might be fast enough to capture this traitor before this escalates. Of course, his supporters will fight back, but this might be our best shot at overwhelming this civil war before it even properly begins."
[effect] large scale fighting is ravaging eastern @@NAME@@

[option] "Yes, let's do something, but not something that crazy!" shouts possible rebel-sympathiser @@RANDOMNAME@@ while dialling in another number on the phone. "If you send in the military now, lots of people are going die very quickly. Try to talk to them, we can negotiate something. Perhaps they'll agree to a power-sharing arrangement? Or we agree to have some of the rebels join our administration? Let them appoint a few governors? Anything to save lives."
[effect] @@LEADER@@'s cabinet literally wants them dead

[option] "That sounds like capitulation you dirty scum," scowls @@CAPITAL@@ police sergeant @@RANDOMNAME@@. "The most important thing is to stop this blight from spreading and to contain the rebels in those few cities. You should declare martial law, break up any suspect gatherings and put roadblocks on enemy territory. Shut down any media and arrest anybody sympathetic to their message. With the rest of the country secure, we can then isolate and starve out those fools until they bow to you once again."
[effect] government agents are breaking up picnics

[option] "If they hate us so much, why we just let them leave?" asks a grimly nonchalant @@RANDOMNAME@@ while twirling some keys. "I mean, there's nothing stopping them from making their own country if they think this guy is such hot stuff. Just draw the borders at all the towns that love him and call it quits. Meanwhile, the rest of us can keep you."
[effect] the government grants sovereignty to anyone who signs their name

[option] "Snipin's a good job, mate" huffs a mysterious man from an RV. "Outdoors, challenging work, and it looks like a someone right here wants another someone dead. No worries, a bit of dosh and you'll be saved with a boom, headshot."
[effect] children meeting @@LEADER@@ are told to "smile and bow your head, or in a while you'll be dead"
Last edited by Chan Island on Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:15 pm

How does an anarchy have a military?

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Baggieland
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Founded: May 27, 2013
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Postby Baggieland » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:14 pm

Chan Island wrote:Worse, some of the eastern cities and a military brigade have defected to the pretender's cause

Chan Island wrote:Of course, there's a risk that his supporters will fight back

Not a risk, a definite certainty.

Chan Island wrote:but this might be our best shot at stopping a civil war before it even begins

Seems to me it has begun!

Chan Island wrote:we can negotiate some kind of arrangement with the rebellion and settle this.

I think some kind of statement about just how far you are prepared to 'compromise' is in order. E.g. not execute them / not imprison them / give them an autonomous slice of NAME / give them a slice of NAME as an independent country, etc. To what extent will these negotiations go?

Chan Island wrote:[option] "Not far enough," declares government purist @@RANDOMNAME@@, the self-righteousness suffocating the rest of the room. "Clearly we showed too much leniency on subversive ideas for too long. After we deal with these rats, we should crack down on the newspapers, blogs and people who ever said a mean thing about you. Oh, and suspend any ideas about elections while at it. Never liked those anyway."
[effect] you are be loyal to the state

This option is about what to do AFTER the current problem has been solved. It doesn't do anything to solve the current situation.

Chan Island wrote:there's nothing stopping them from making their own country

IRL there is, every bit of the world is either owned or claimed. I think you need to elaborate about how this option can be achieved.
Last edited by Baggieland on Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keep the faith, keep on boinging!

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:10 am

How did a foreigner win over the military?
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Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:04 pm

Trotterdam wrote:How does an anarchy have a military?


Don't ask me, ask the NS stats. It seems very possible in NS to have a military and be an anarchy... I'm just rolling with it by making this an issue available to all, not just anachy. :p

Baggieland wrote:
Chan Island wrote:Worse, some of the eastern cities and a military brigade have defected to the pretender's cause

Chan Island wrote:Of course, there's a risk that his supporters will fight back

Not a risk, a definite certainty.

Chan Island wrote:but this might be our best shot at stopping a civil war before it even begins

Seems to me it has begun!

Chan Island wrote:we can negotiate some kind of arrangement with the rebellion and settle this.

I think some kind of statement about just how far you are prepared to 'compromise' is in order. E.g. not execute them / not imprison them / give them an autonomous slice of NAME / give them a slice of NAME as an independent country, etc. To what extent will these negotiations go?

Chan Island wrote:[option] "Not far enough," declares government purist @@RANDOMNAME@@, the self-righteousness suffocating the rest of the room. "Clearly we showed too much leniency on subversive ideas for too long. After we deal with these rats, we should crack down on the newspapers, blogs and people who ever said a mean thing about you. Oh, and suspend any ideas about elections while at it. Never liked those anyway."
[effect] you are be loyal to the state

This option is about what to do AFTER the current problem has been solved. It doesn't do anything to solve the current situation.

Chan Island wrote:there's nothing stopping them from making their own country

IRL there is, every bit of the world is either owned or claimed. I think you need to elaborate about how this option can be achieved.


Good points all around. Implementing fixes for all of them.

Australian rePublic wrote:How did a foreigner win over the military?


It's not a foreigner, but a @@DENONYM@@ rebel who could get foreign backing. I'll be sure to clarify.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Baggieland
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Founded: May 27, 2013
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Postby Baggieland » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:46 pm

That's a lot better.

Chan Island wrote:calls Commander @@RANDOMNAME@@ from the local military garrison

The @@CAPITAL@@ garrison would be better.

Chan Island wrote:while putting on a bulletproof vest

How do you know he's putting on a bulletproof vest if he's on the phone?

Chan Island wrote:If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?

Chan Island wrote:there's nothing stopping them from making their own country if they think this guy is such hot stuff. Just draw the borders at all the towns that love him and call it quits.

Not exactly "leaving" is he?

Finally all your effect lines are just really stating the obvious conclusion of each option. Try a little humour. :)
Keep the faith, keep on boinging!

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Chan Island
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Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:48 am

Baggieland wrote:That's a lot better.

Chan Island wrote:calls Commander @@RANDOMNAME@@ from the local military garrison

The @@CAPITAL@@ garrison would be better.

Chan Island wrote:while putting on a bulletproof vest

How do you know he's putting on a bulletproof vest if he's on the phone?

Chan Island wrote:If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?

Chan Island wrote:there's nothing stopping them from making their own country if they think this guy is such hot stuff. Just draw the borders at all the towns that love him and call it quits.

Not exactly "leaving" is he?

Finally all your effect lines are just really stating the obvious conclusion of each option. Try a little humour. :)


Thanks!

1) Unfortunately it seems I'm not very clear on that. The cities that are revolting aren't @@CAPITAL@@, and it would make far more strategic sense for the nearest garrison to deploy, which may not be the capital. Easier then to just say it's the nearest one as I've done.

2) Yeah, do we have an in-universe term for Skyping? I was thinking more a video conference Skype type of arrangement was going on. Either that or should I just go for something that would send a clear message and have an obvious audio cue, such as reloading a gun?

Yeah, the effect lines are a little lacking, I agree there. Been a while, need to get back into the swing of that...
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Baggieland
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Posts: 3146
Founded: May 27, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Baggieland » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:19 am

Chan Island wrote:Unfortunately it seems I'm not very clear on that. The cities that are revolting aren't @@CAPITAL@@, and it would make far more strategic sense for the nearest garrison to deploy, which may not be the capital. Easier then to just say it's the nearest one as I've done.

Yeah, just "nearest garrison" would be better.

Chan Island wrote: something that would send a clear message and have an obvious audio cue, such as reloading a gun?

That's definitely better.
Keep the faith, keep on boinging!

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Authoritaria-Imperia
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Posts: 165
Founded: Nov 06, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:51 am

Chan Island wrote:
Years ago, I wanted to make a series of issues about anarchies, however ultimately that failed when people pointed out that anarchies aren't necessarily violent. While I've long forgotten most of them, this idea still hung around, and with Venezuela last year reminding me big time of this prospect, it's time for a real stab at it.

EDIT: This idea is not specifically about anarchies.
------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been a disastrous past couple of hours. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, a popular but maverick @@DENONYM@@ politician, has declared himself the new leader of the nation, complete with a ready-made parallel government. Worse, some of the eastern cities and a military brigade have defected to the pretender's cause. There's a hint of a feeling that now is the time for urgent decisions before this catastrophe spells the end of your tenure in the top office.

validity: all

[option] "If we don't do something, these rebels will overrun the country!" calls Commander @@RANDOMNAME@@ from the local military garrison, while putting on a bulletproof vest. "But we can still fix this! Give us the order and my troops might be fast enough to capture this traitor before this escalates. Of course, his supporters will fight back, but this might be our best shot at overwhelming this civil war before it even properly begins."
[effect] large scale fighting is ravaging eastern @@NAME@@

[option] "Yes, let's do something, but not something that crazy!" shouts possible rebel-sympathiser @@RANDOMNAME@@ while dialling in another number on the phone. "If you send in the military now, lots of people are going die very quickly. Try to talk to them, we can negotiate something. Perhaps they'll agree to a power-sharing arrangement? Or we agree to have some of the rebels join our administration? Let them appoint a few governors? Anything to save lives."
[effect] @@LEADER@@ spends a lot of time sharing power

[option] "That sounds like capitulation you dirty scum," scowls @@CAPITAL@@ police sergeant @@RANDOMNAME@@. "The most important thing is to stop this blight from spreading and to contain the rebels in those few cities. You should declare martial law, break up any suspect gatherings and put roadblocks on enemy territory. Shut down any media and arrest anybody sympathetic to their message. With the rest of the country secure, we can then isolate and starve out those fools until they bow to you once again."
[effect] government agents are breaking up picnics

[option] "If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?" asks a grimly nonchalant @@RANDOMNAME@@ while twirling some keys. "I mean, there's nothing stopping them from making their own country if they think this guy is such hot stuff. Just draw the borders at all the towns that love him and call it quits. Meanwhile, the rest of us can keep you."
[effect] mapmakers earn fortunes chronicling the nation's fading away

[option] "Snipin's a good job, mate" huffs a mysterious man from an RV. "Outdoors, challenging work, and it looks like a someone right here wants another someone dead. No worries, a bit of dosh and you'll be saved with a boom, headshot."
[effect] rebel forces are vowing vengeance for their martyred leader
This issue is pretty big! There are a bunch of places where you can cut down on word count — particularly the introduction.
Also, I don't think all these options are necessary. Military (1) and police (3) are too similar — they're both harsh means of oppressing the movement via government forces, so I think you should keep one and drop the other. Assassination (5) almost falls into this category too.

Just my opinion on the issue. I think it's a good premise, and it really throws you into the action, which is fun. It's just also a bit long. :)

Edit: The fifth option involves a mysterious man who's also a sniper. What about in nations where guns are banned? (I'm assuming that "sniping" implies guns and not, say, cannons. ;))

More edit:
Chan Island wrote:
Baggieland wrote:Finally all your effect lines are just really stating the obvious conclusion of each option. Try a little humour. :)
Yeah, the effect lines are a little lacking, I agree there. Been a while, need to get back into the swing of that...
Here are some effect lines if you're interested. Not sure which ones you wanted to change, or if you wanted to change them at all, but it's up to you… :) Feel free to use these if you're interested.
— (Option 5) obnoxious displays of loyalty are the best way to stay alive
— (Option 5) children meeting @@LEADER@@ are told to "smile and bow your head, or in a while you'll be dead"
— (Option 5) assassination rates are up but dissent rates are down
— (Option 1) civil wars are often prompted by food fights
— (Option 1) children trying to start their own country in the backyard are met with the National Guard
— (Option 4) children running away from home have been known to create sovereign nations in the process
— (Option 4) the government grants sovereignty to anyone who signs their name
— (Option 4) counts of enclaves within the nation are in the hundreds
Last edited by Authoritaria-Imperia on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:27 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Chan Island
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:29 pm

Baggieland wrote:
Chan Island wrote:Unfortunately it seems I'm not very clear on that. The cities that are revolting aren't @@CAPITAL@@, and it would make far more strategic sense for the nearest garrison to deploy, which may not be the capital. Easier then to just say it's the nearest one as I've done.

Yeah, just "nearest garrison" would be better.

Chan Island wrote: something that would send a clear message and have an obvious audio cue, such as reloading a gun?

That's definitely better.



Thanks for the suggestion, it's implemented.

Anything else?

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
Years ago, I wanted to make a series of issues about anarchies, however ultimately that failed when people pointed out that anarchies aren't necessarily violent. While I've long forgotten most of them, this idea still hung around, and with Venezuela last year reminding me big time of this prospect, it's time for a real stab at it.

EDIT: This idea is not specifically about anarchies.
------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been a disastrous past couple of hours. @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, a popular but maverick @@DENONYM@@ politician, has declared himself the new leader of the nation, complete with a ready-made parallel government. Worse, some of the eastern cities and a military brigade have defected to the pretender's cause. There's a hint of a feeling that now is the time for urgent decisions before this catastrophe spells the end of your tenure in the top office.

validity: all

[option] "If we don't do something, these rebels will overrun the country!" calls Commander @@RANDOMNAME@@ from the local military garrison, while putting on a bulletproof vest. "But we can still fix this! Give us the order and my troops might be fast enough to capture this traitor before this escalates. Of course, his supporters will fight back, but this might be our best shot at overwhelming this civil war before it even properly begins."
[effect] large scale fighting is ravaging eastern @@NAME@@

[option] "Yes, let's do something, but not something that crazy!" shouts possible rebel-sympathiser @@RANDOMNAME@@ while dialling in another number on the phone. "If you send in the military now, lots of people are going die very quickly. Try to talk to them, we can negotiate something. Perhaps they'll agree to a power-sharing arrangement? Or we agree to have some of the rebels join our administration? Let them appoint a few governors? Anything to save lives."
[effect] @@LEADER@@ spends a lot of time sharing power

[option] "That sounds like capitulation you dirty scum," scowls @@CAPITAL@@ police sergeant @@RANDOMNAME@@. "The most important thing is to stop this blight from spreading and to contain the rebels in those few cities. You should declare martial law, break up any suspect gatherings and put roadblocks on enemy territory. Shut down any media and arrest anybody sympathetic to their message. With the rest of the country secure, we can then isolate and starve out those fools until they bow to you once again."
[effect] government agents are breaking up picnics

[option] "If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?" asks a grimly nonchalant @@RANDOMNAME@@ while twirling some keys. "I mean, there's nothing stopping them from making their own country if they think this guy is such hot stuff. Just draw the borders at all the towns that love him and call it quits. Meanwhile, the rest of us can keep you."
[effect] mapmakers earn fortunes chronicling the nation's fading away

[option] "Snipin's a good job, mate" huffs a mysterious man from an RV. "Outdoors, challenging work, and it looks like a someone right here wants another someone dead. No worries, a bit of dosh and you'll be saved with a boom, headshot."
[effect] rebel forces are vowing vengeance for their martyred leader
This issue is pretty big! There are a bunch of places where you can cut down on word count — particularly the introduction.
Also, I don't think all these options are necessary. Military (1) and police (3) are too similar — they're both harsh means of oppressing the movement via government forces, so I think you should keep one and drop the other. Assassination (5) almost falls into this category too.

Just my opinion on the issue. I think it's a good premise, and it really throws you into the action, which is fun. It's just also a bit long. :)

Edit: The fifth option involves a mysterious man who's also a sniper. What about in nations where guns are banned? (I'm assuming that "sniping" implies guns and not, say, cannons. ;))

More edit:
Chan Island wrote:Yeah, the effect lines are a little lacking, I agree there. Been a while, need to get back into the swing of that...
Here are some effect lines if you're interested. Not sure which ones you wanted to change, or if you wanted to change them at all, but it's up to you… :) Feel free to use these if you're interested.
— (Option 5) obnoxious displays of loyalty are the best way to stay alive
— (Option 5) children meeting @@LEADER@@ are told to "smile and bow your head, or in a while you'll be dead"
— (Option 5) assassination rates are up but dissent rates are down
— (Option 1) civil wars are often prompted by food fights
— (Option 1) children trying to start their own country in the backyard are met with the National Guard
— (Option 4) children running away from home have been known to create sovereign nations in the process
— (Option 4) the government grants sovereignty to anyone who signs their name
— (Option 4) counts of enclaves within the nation are in the hundreds


Thanks for the thorough advice!

I disagree that options 1 and 3 are the same. Fundamentally, one of them is Assad 2011 whereas the other is Maduro 2019. One is aggressive breaking of subversive activities via decisive attack, whereas the other is containment and ultimately de-escalation via show of force.

Great, now I have the mental image of some call of duty-style crossbow sniper. :D

Love some of those effect lines! Nabbing them wholesale.

Anything else?
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Baggieland
Minister
 
Posts: 3146
Founded: May 27, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Baggieland » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:37 pm

Chan Island wrote:@@LEADER@@'s cabinet literally wants @@HIM@@ dead

We can't know what sex LEADER is, as most players assume LEADER to be themselves.

Chan Island wrote:If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?"

... why don't you just allow them to leave us?
Keep the faith, keep on boinging!

User avatar
Chan Island
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:00 pm

Baggieland wrote:
Chan Island wrote:@@LEADER@@'s cabinet literally wants @@HIM@@ dead

We can't know what sex LEADER is, as most players assume LEADER to be themselves.

Chan Island wrote:If they hate us so much, why don't they just leave?"

... why don't you just allow them to leave us?


Fair points. Changes implemented.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.


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