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The Importance of Teachers

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Do we need teachers?

Yes, they are more qualified and can answer questions
29
67%
Yes, they know students
6
14%
No, homeschooling/online school are more individualized
6
14%
No, we can teach ourselves
0
No votes
No, we only need Hasselhoff
2
5%
 
Total votes : 43

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Geneviev
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The Importance of Teachers

Postby Geneviev » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:43 am

Due to the coronavirus, schools around the world were forced to close, including my own. In order to continue learning, students were forced to homeschool or participate in online classes. This meant for many that they had less ability to communicate with teachers or ask questions directly, if at all. For some students, this has been beneficial and allowed them to learn more easily due to feeling less pressure or being able to learn at their own pace. However, others are unable to understand the material and are struggling due to their inability to get help from their teachers. According to some parents, this situation proves that teachers are unnecessary and students can teach themselves.

In my opinion, teachers are necessary to help students understand what they are learning. Videos are not a sufficient replacement for being able to ask questions, especially in advanced or higher-level classes. Because teachers know the subject they are teaching, they are often a better source of information than Google. They also already know their students and are able to help them more effectively.

What do you think, NSG? Does this situation prove that we can teach ourselves, or do we need teachers?
Last edited by Geneviev on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:56 am

Hopefully I'll be teaching full-time by Fall of '21. In short, teachers are a national backbone and online classes simply can't replace teaching in-person. I'd argue that teachers and professors should be as lenient as possible right now as students adjust.
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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:00 am

We have Skype these days, don't we? Teachers can hold online classes at fixed dates and times and teach their students in real-time. Also, bear in mind that not everyone has an internet connection. But I totally agree. We do need teachers. Homeschooling parents should ideally possess the appropriate qualifications to teach their kids from home, and their curriculum must be officially recognized by the relevant education body and be completely free of any religious or political indoctrination, but the parent-teacher should also be permitted some leeway to tailor their teaching methods to best suit their child's optimal learning style.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:15 am

New Bremerton wrote:We have Skype these days, don't we? Teachers can hold online classes at fixed dates and times and teach their students in real-time. Also, bear in mind that not everyone has an internet connection. But I totally agree. We do need teachers. Homeschooling parents should ideally possess the appropriate qualifications to teach their kids from home, and their curriculum must be officially recognized by the relevant education body and be completely free of any religious or political indoctrination, but the parent-teacher should also be permitted some leeway to tailor their teaching methods to best suit their child's optimal learning style.

Video conferencing is one of the best solutions right now, definitely. It's still not ideal, though.
As for homeschooling parents, what would the appropriate qualifications be? Should they be certified teachers?
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:19 am

In theory, it's a tradeoff between knowledge of the subject and understanding of one's students.

But there's also the fact that schools can more effectively control the message, for good or for ill. Any individual teacher who goes rogue in the classroom has dozens of witnesses. Even if they manage to disguise this as all being within the curriculum, they'll find out otherwise next time they have to write a standardized test on it.

Historically speaking, we're the outliers for treating teenagers as children. This suggests an agenda, even if we're not sure what that agenda is. We oppose teenagers working, to keep them in school. We support schooling as an alternative to teenagers working. This circular loop leaves a question of what's really at stake... most likely, the assumptions and attitudes in favour of which the education system, effectively or ineffectively, attempts to stack the deck.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wheatonleks
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Postby Wheatonleks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:20 am

Thankfully Liberty University isn’t following this authoritarian mandate and students are able to get the education they want

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Wheatonleks
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Postby Wheatonleks » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:24 am

Thankfully Liberty University isn’t following this authoritarian mandate and students are able to get the education they want

But honestly I think the necessity of teachers varies, I think in the modern day students probably learn far more just surfing the web than they do in an official school setting, especially as far as things like philosophy and history are concerned, but I think there’s still a place for them, especially in subjects students find harder

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Urlendia
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Postby Urlendia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:46 am

Not only are teachers good for, y'know, teaching - but they are also a support role in the students' lives and for some they are the only reliable grown up in their life.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:47 am

Some teachers are really great like my ninth grade world history teacher Greg Petrilli. Dude was smart as fuck.

And then others don't know what they're talking about and when half their class fails, they try to pretend it isn't their fault.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am

Wheatonleks wrote:Thankfully Liberty University isn’t following this authoritarian mandate and students are able to get the education they want


I'm sure they think God will protect them from coronavirus. 99% chance they're gonna find out real quick they wrong.

Liberty University is the big gay.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Find me on Spoon Radio at Sonoma Martinez!

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am

Urlendia wrote:Not only are teachers good for, y'know, teaching - but they are also a support role in the students' lives and for some they are the only reliable grown up in their life.


Actually that last part is my job for two many motherfuckers.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Find me on Spoon Radio at Sonoma Martinez!

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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:51 am

I am the child of a teacher, who lives with said teacher who has been sent home due to the outbreak.

These parents who think that they're "homeschooling" or that it proves that teachers are "unnecessary" need to get over themselves. They are doing less than 1% of the actual work — the parents did not come up with the curriculum. The parents did not come up with the assignments. The parents are not grading the work and analyzing it for what needs improvement. The parents do not know the first thing about scientific childhood development and how to apply these things to a teaching method. All they are doing is sitting there and helping their kids complete glorified homework, which is exactly what they should have been doing in the first place, not something they deserve a medal for.

They are no more "doing the teacher's job" than you are "doing the cook's job" by throwing a frozen meal into a microwave.

Of course, this is such one symptom in the much bigger, long-standing problem of the modern age (and America in particular) being full of people who don't know their place. And I know everybody gets a kneejerk "anti-authoritarian" reaction when they hear that phrase, know your place, but there are times when it genuinely applies. If you don't know what you're talking about on a certain subject, then you need to keep your mouth shut when it comes to that subject, or you're going to fuck things up. That should be obvious, but people frequently become aghast when you suggest such a thing, that maybe they're not a qualified source of information on every subject matter under the sun — as if to suggest such a thing undermines their fundamental value as a human being. e.g., If you say that perhaps a truck driver who has never so much as seen a barometer in his life shouldn't be consulted when it comes to climatology, you'll be met with a lecture about how, "You just don't understand how important truck drivers are! They deliver your food!!!" as if the importance of his food deliveries magically bestows him with a meteorological PhD.

But no one said you're not important or smart in your own way. Everyone is. But no one is important and smart at everything. The hypothetical truck driver might get insulted when he's told to butt out of the climatologists' territory, yet I doubt that he would allow that climatologist himself — or a lawyer, or a gardener, or a chef — to make his deliveries for him. "Well, you've never been a trucker before, you don't know what you're doing!" Voila.

So before any of you sit back and imagine yourself, or others like you, as being of equal caliber to a teacher all because you can sit at a quiet kitchen table and read instructions designed for children off a laptop, I encourage to actually look around at the sort of people you see on a daily basis and ask yourself: Would you let them walk into your job and do it for you? No? Then stop trying to do everyone else's.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:55 am

Giovenith wrote:I am the child of a teacher, who lives with said teacher who has been sent home due to the outbreak.

These parents who think that they're "homeschooling" or that it proves that teachers are "unnecessary" need to get over themselves. They are doing less than 1% of the actual work — the parents did not come up with the curriculum. The parents did not come up with the assignments. The parents are not grading the work and analyzing it for what needs improvement. The parents do not know the first thing about scientific childhood development and how to apply these things to a teaching method. All they are doing is sitting there and helping their kids complete glorified homework, which is exactly what they should have been doing in the first place, not something they deserve a medal for.

They are no more "doing the teacher's job" than you are "doing the cook's job" by throwing a frozen meal into a microwave.

Of course, this is such one symptom in the much bigger, long-standing problem of the modern age (and America in particular) being full of people who don't know their place. And I know everybody gets a kneejerk "anti-authoritarian" reaction when they hear that phrase, know your place, but there are times when it genuinely applies. If you don't know what you're talking about on a certain subject, then you need to keep your mouth shut when it comes to that subject, or you're going to fuck things up. That should be obvious, but people frequently become aghast when you suggest such a thing, that maybe they're not a qualified source of information on every subject matter under the sun — as if to suggest such a thing undermines their fundamental value as a human being. e.g., If you say that perhaps a truck driver who has never so much as seen a barometer in his life shouldn't be consulted when it comes to climatology, you'll be met with a lecture about how, "You just don't understand how important truck drivers are! They deliver your food!!!" as if the importance of his food deliveries magically bestows him with a meteorological PhD.

But no one said you're not important or smart in your own way. Everyone is. But no one is important and smart at everything. The hypothetical truck driver might get insulted when he's told to butt out of the climatologists' territory, yet I doubt that he would allow that climatologist himself — or a lawyer, or a gardener, or a chef — to make his deliveries for him. "Well, you've never been a trucker before, you don't know what you're doing!" Voila.

So before any of you sit back and imagine yourself, or others like you, as being of equal caliber to a teacher all because you can sit at a quiet kitchen table and read instructions designed for children off a laptop, I encourage to actually look around at the sort of people you see on a daily basis and ask yourself: Would you let them walk into your job and do it for you? No? Then stop trying to do everyone else's.


What if you actually are a teacher though and wanna homeschool your children?
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


Find me on Spoon Radio at Sonoma Martinez!

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 am

Wheatonleks wrote:Thankfully Liberty University isn’t following this authoritarian mandate and students are able to get the education they want


You provide the worst takes.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 am

I hate to be that guy but frankly up until I came to university I newer met a teacher that was worth more than his weight in expired meat.
Last edited by Purpelia on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:01 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:Some teachers are really great like my ninth grade world history teacher Greg Petrilli. Dude was smart as fuck.

And then others don't know what they're talking about and when half their class fails, they try to pretend it isn't their fault.

To be fair, there are some courses that are failed by half the class no matter who their teacher is.
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.
Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

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Giovenith
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Postby Giovenith » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:03 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:What if you actually are a teacher though and wanna homeschool your children?


That is certainly different. Though it does matter what your teaching qualifications are. There is no universal "i am a teacher now" degree, you do need to go to college to get certification to handle certain age groups (special needs kids, etc.). My parent is certified to teach preschool through fifth grade, so she would not know what she is doing if she was tossed into a classroom full of high school seniors. Furthermore, teaching is not one of those jobs where you just get your education done and over it, you have to continually go back to college periodically throughout your entire career in order to stay up to date on the latest discoveries and developments in the field. i.e., Some broad who got her degree in teaching kindergartners back in 1979 and hasn't gone back to school since has no business homeschooling her 15 year old, as nice of a teacher as I'm sure she once was.
Last edited by Giovenith on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:03 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:What if you actually are a teacher though and wanna homeschool your children?

How often does that happen, though?
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.
Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:05 pm

Also, if anyone really believed they "didn't need teachers," wouldn't they wade in the water first by pushing to slice a year or two off the curriculum, rather than just diving directly into homeschooling?
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.
Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

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Lodhs beard
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Postby Lodhs beard » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:05 pm

Our teachers have been incredible during the outbreak, making extensive modifications to a school website so that files can be sent/marked via it, setting up online forums to ask them questions, and proceeding with a slightly modified curriculum. I am very impressed, and greatly indebted to them for this.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm

Lodhs beard wrote:Our teachers have been incredible during the outbreak, making extensive modifications to a school website so that files can be sent/marked via it, setting up online forums to ask them questions, and proceeding with a slightly modified curriculum. I am very impressed, and greatly indebted to them for this.

They finally have a break from having to deal with unruly, disobedient students in person. In light of that, I find it hard to believe they even mind "adjusting" to the online environment all that much.
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.
Kowani wrote:You don’t get to call it Chinese industry when American corporations are the ones outsourcing their labor.

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Treadwellia
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Postby Treadwellia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:09 pm

I need to keep this brief at the moment, but here I go. . . .

I'm a full-time instructor at a local community college with over a decade and a half of adjunct experience prior to being hired full-time. Before that, I pursued a brief approach into high school education, followed by my master's degree, which led to the adjunct position I mentioned. Most of my teaching career has been through traditional means, a face to face or partly web-supported environment, although I have taught a couple of online courses over the years, including a class last semester. This semester, as of the last week and a half, my employer has made the decision to move all classes online for the duration. Finishing up overdue grading, preparing to transition six traditional classes to an online setting, and working on a portfolio due mid-April requires a great deal of effort. While on the surface I put in thirty-five hours a week, the time spent in having to focus on grading essays and discussion boards, attend meetings (now online through methods such as Zoom and Skype rather than in-office), and sacrifice any vestiges of a social life due to the combination of work and Corona virus concerns in the area means spending a great deal more time and energy than many non-teachers fathom.

I would not begin to assume that I know anything of, say, the electrical wiring that my father is doing in the primary bathroom on the other side of my bedroom wall; I have absolutely no experience in those matters. I would hope that others would not assume, even in times like these where parents are being called into having to teach material at home for students who are otherwise unable to pursue their studies, that someone inexperienced in teaching can perform to the same caliber as someone who has made it his or her life's work. We all have specific focuses and interests that we feel led to; for some, that interest is the education of others or of others' children.

Teachers are most certainly necessary to the survival of culture, education, and, overall, humanity. Let no one say otherwise.

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Treadwellia
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Postby Treadwellia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:12 pm

Regarding the poll: any teacher who has actually served properly in the role knows that the reality is the combination of the first two options. It's not just a matter of knowing the material; there are plenty of instructors who believe they can teach when all they do is simply give a foundational, basic overview of a book or of a slideshow or a passage on a screen. Teaching does require extensive knowledge of the information and its background, yes, but teaching requires just as much knowledge of the students and how to adapt to their needs and interests.

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Urlendia
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Postby Urlendia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:13 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Urlendia wrote:Not only are teachers good for, y'know, teaching - but they are also a support role in the students' lives and for some they are the only reliable grown up in their life.


Actually that last part is my job for two many motherfuckers.


Oh, yeah. I'm only a teaching student, but I tutor - and too many times have what started as a job where I just help people write their essays turned into an endless barrage of "How do I wash wool clothes?", "No one likes my shoes" and "My parents are pressuring me to pick this college".

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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Lodhs beard wrote:Our teachers have been incredible during the outbreak, making extensive modifications to a school website so that files can be sent/marked via it, setting up online forums to ask them questions, and proceeding with a slightly modified curriculum. I am very impressed, and greatly indebted to them for this.

They finally have a break from having to deal with unruly, disobedient students in person. In light of that, I find it hard to believe they even mind "adjusting" to the online environment all that much.


When SARS broke out in Hong Kong back in 2003 and we all had to stay home from school, we continued to receive homework over the school's website. As soon as the outbreak abated and school resumed, none of the students, except for me, even bothered to complete our assignments. A controlled learning environment, it seems, is essential for *some* students. Not me, however. School uniforms my ass. Wearing a uniform taught me absolutely nothing about the real world in all its unmitigated horror.
Last edited by New Bremerton on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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