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Abortion Law Reform Passes in New Zealand

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Costa Fierro
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Abortion Law Reform Passes in New Zealand

Postby Costa Fierro » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:12 am

New Zealand has legalised abortion, removing the practice from the Crimes Act and liberalising access to abortion services.

The final vote on the bill passed 68 to 51, it will now head to the Governor-General for the royal assent before becoming law.

The new law liberalises abortion rules, treating the practice as a health matter rather than a criminal one.

People will now be able to access abortions from a health practitioner in the first 20 weeks of pregnancy.

After 20 weeks, people will still be able to accesss abortions, but only after proving to two health practitioners that an abortion is "clinically appropriate," with the regard to their physical and mental health and wellbeing.


Sauce.

Bit of a disclaimer: this liberalises existing laws that have been in place since the 1960's. Abortions could be performed in New Zealand under existing legislation provided they met certain criteria, although most were performed exploiting a loophole.

Unfortunately due to some eel-like slipperiness from one of the MP's, protesters can now gather outside clinics and other facilities offering abortions unimpeded, as Parliament inadvertently voted in favour of an addition to the legislation that removed the implementation of safe zones, and there was no real legislative way to reinstate them.

Furthermore, and thank whatever deity one worships for this, it would not have gone to a referendum as per what New Zealand First wanted, unlike both the marijuana and euthanasia law reforms which are due to be voted on through public referendum in this year's general election in September.

Personally it's a bit meh from me, but it's something different to the doom and gloom of the coronavirus and economic collapse.
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:14 am

Awful, awful AWFUL! Disgusting, I'm ashamed to see this happening in my country.
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Postby Radiatia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:20 am

Drongonia wrote:Awful, awful AWFUL! Disgusting, I'm ashamed to see this happening in my country.


Same.

I've been quite public already with my views on the subject (in real life), so I'm not going to rehash the same debate on these forums but to make a long story short, there was no reason to change our existing laws: We had an excellent balance between the rights of the unborn child and the rights of women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

Now we've thrown that away in a flurry of ideology, and just to add insult to injury they attempted (luckily unsuccessfully) to ban anyone from protesting it because New Zealand is rapidly becoming an authoritarian shithole.

Even if you're rabidly pro-choice, surely you should be able to see that banning protests (or confining them to certain areas) is a very, very dangerous thing to do.
Last edited by Radiatia on Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Vivolkha » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:22 am

While I'm in favor of the general idea behind the law (it's a matter of basic human rights, really), it falls slightly short (the safe area problem, statuory test after 20 weeks). But for now since it's better than the previous law in place I would support it.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:46 am

Abortion is one of those issues I have a lot of internal confusion over, but in the end I think it is the woman's body so it is her choice. I'm not going to force someone to go through a long, potentially dangerous, always stressful (in many different ways) and life-altering process against their will.

Having said that, abortion is the least desirable outcome from my perspective, with things like adoption and the like being much better alternatives.

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Postby Terabithya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:57 am

Unfortunately, New Zealand has a very evil government. I'm surprised that they didn't fully legalize unborn murder until today.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:00 am

Good, I hope New Zealand continues to be one of the best English speaking countries and that conservative and religious shackles continue to break world wide.
Last edited by New haven america on Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Prozitia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:03 am

All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?
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Awhaiti Kaiatu
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Postby Awhaiti Kaiatu » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:09 am

Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


Most of those in opposition are guys as well - because they of course must have a say over a woman's body? (imo, if you're against abortion then don't get one)


Regardless, good on my country for passing this - this is the result of decades of social rights work advocacy right here

As for the safe-zones? That fell short due to the parliament meeting being at 11pm... many of the MP's were drousy and faing asleep at the wheel.. oops
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Postby Terabithya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:10 am

Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:10 am

Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?

You do realize that you can be pro-life while also supporting welfare to support single parents, reducing hunger, and expanding education right? It’s not an either or proposition
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:12 am

Terabithya wrote:
Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.

Nobody gives a shit about what your church says about marriage and sex. Besides the RCC has been having a lot of issues in the after school department so they really shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about sexual sins until they remove that log from their eye.
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Postby Awhaiti Kaiatu » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:15 am

Terabithya wrote:
Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.



Mistakes happen when people are having the fun of sex, and if they don't want the burden of an unwanted child then they should have the option to not ruin their life.

And saying "sex outside marriage is a sin" isn't very impactful in a country like NZ where just over a third of people are christian.
Last edited by Awhaiti Kaiatu on Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Waldoven » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:16 am

I'm quite conflicted on the topic of abortion. On one hand, it is the right for a woman to choose. But I don't like taking the life of an unborn child that if it was allowed to be born would grow up to be a living human. But in the end I' m pro-choice. But a little bit of convincing could turn me into pro-life. But a little bit of convincing could also turn me back into pro-choice.
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Postby Nakena » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:17 am

Terabithya wrote:
Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.


Yeah not everyone follows your religion. Hurr durr.
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Postby Terabithya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:19 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Terabithya wrote:
It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.

Nobody gives a shit about what your church says about marriage and sex. Besides the RCC has been having a lot of issues in the after school department so they really shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about sexual sins until they remove that log from their eye.


If someone in the RCC is evil, does that give you the right to be evil? And it's not just what the RCC says, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said: "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5, 28) So even to look at a woman to lust after her is the sin of adultery. How much more sinful is extramarital sex then?
Last edited by Terabithya on Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:21 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?

You do realize that you can be pro-life while also supporting welfare to support single parents, reducing hunger, and expanding education right? It’s not an either or proposition

I mean, you can be.

It's just that like 90-95% of them tend not to be and stop caring about the "Child's" wellbeing as soon as they pop out. It'd be nice if they focused on those kids after they're born as well.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:22 am

Terabithya wrote:
Prozitia wrote:All of you "pro-life" guys are sick in the head. You only want a larger ignorant, starving population. Because that's what makes you conservatards profit. Why is this even a debate?


It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.

Pregnancy as punishment, take a shot!

God, not even 20 posts in.
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Postby Greater Theowherveld » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:23 am

Terabithya wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nobody gives a shit about what your church says about marriage and sex. Besides the RCC has been having a lot of issues in the after school department so they really shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about sexual sins until they remove that log from their eye.


If someone in the RCC is evil, does that give you the right to be evil? And it's not just what the RCC says, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said: "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5, 28) So even to look at a woman to lust after her is the sin of adultery. How much more sinful is extramarital sex then?

You quote the bible as if it is a historical account. This alone shows you know so little that anyone listening to your thoughts are suffering brain damage.

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Terabithya
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Postby Terabithya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:24 am

New haven america wrote:
Terabithya wrote:
It's not like you could avoid sexual intercourse or let another couple adopt your child, is it? Sexual intercourse is for marriage anyway, when you usually want to have children. Outside of sacramental marriage, sex is usually a sin.

Pregnancy as punishment


Nowhere did I write that pregnancy is a punishment. It is actually a bliss in marriage to found a happy family.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:24 am

Terabithya wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Nobody gives a shit about what your church says about marriage and sex. Besides the RCC has been having a lot of issues in the after school department so they really shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about sexual sins until they remove that log from their eye.


If someone in the RCC is evil, does that give you the right to be evil? And it's not just what the RCC says, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said: "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5, 28) So even to look at a woman to lust after her is the sin of adultery. How much more sinful is extramarital sex then?

The Bible also talks about greater sins. And having sex isn’t all that great compared to diddling children and covering up said child abuse.
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Postby Drongonia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:25 am

Terabithya wrote:Nowhere did I write that pregnancy is a punishment. It is actually a bliss in marriage to found a happy family.

Human life is a gift, and it pains me to think that the people who supported this Act the most (Green Party MPs) would go into bat for species of wild animals but not for the preservation of human life.
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Postby Samudera Darussalam » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:26 am

I.....don't really expect a NZ thread to turn into a religious debate tbh, but ah well.
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:26 am

New haven america wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:You do realize that you can be pro-life while also supporting welfare to support single parents, reducing hunger, and expanding education right? It’s not an either or proposition

I mean, you can be.

It's just that like 90-95% of them tend not to be and stop caring about the "Child's" wellbeing as soon as they pop out. It'd be nice if they focused on those kids after they're born as well.

Those who refuse to care for those on the outside are just as guilty of the sins their churches preach about the abortionists.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:27 am

Samudera Darussalam wrote:I.....don't really expect a NZ thread to turn into a religious debate tbh, but ah well.

It’s abortion dude. It was bound to happen
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