Re: Loyal to the USA or to Japan?

[Infected Mushroom]

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are a young Japanese-American doing World War II. Who would you support? The American Empire? Or the Japanese Empire?

Let us talk about 4 specific variations:

Variation 1:
You were born in Japan. However, you moved over to the USA with your parents and have lived here for seven years.

Variation 2:
You were born in the USA. Your parents have also tried to promote in you a Japanese identity. During the war, the US government forces your entire family to move to a concentration camp for reasons of national security.

Variation 3:
You were born in the USA. Your parents have also tried to promote in you a Japanese identity. During the war, you are lucky in that the US government left you alone.

Variation 4:
You were born in the USA. However, your parents and you moved back to Imperial Japan. You've since been in Japan for seven years.

...

For all four variations, assume that you have your IRL personality and tendencies but that you've also been subjected to the indoctrination, propaganda, information, lies, and overall attempts by said governments to influence you, your behaviour, morality and your way of thinking.

You have access to whatever information the people at the time had whether it be true or false.

Please try to approach this scenario without the benefit of hindsight. In other words, if you don't think you would have figured out that the USA was being racist at the time (even though you understand this to be true now), then you have to play it like you didn't know. Alternatively, if you are the type to believe that Japan committed no atrocities in WWII because you believe in the government news for Variation 4, then you have to roll with that.

A poll has been provided.

Please tell us who you support for each Variation, and why.

Now, let's discuss.

Variation 1: I would support the Japanese Empire. This is because I would likely come to resent the American society for treating Easterners as second-class citizens. I would also be very resentful that my parents would probably tell me, "you have to be a Patriotic American."

Variation 2: It's a toss up but I think there's a slightly higher probability that I would support the Americans. This is because I would have been raised reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and in my view, the sheer amount of propaganda would cause me to betray my people and side with western colonialism over Japanese imperialism.

Variation 3: In this scenario, what likely happens is that I would at first support the Americans. But when they take action against me and my family, I would switch to supporting the Japanese out of resentment. As the war progresses, I would be interested in exploring the narrative of the other side and rediscover my heritage.

Variation 4: In this scenario, I would support the Japanese Empire wholeheartedly. I would be horrified when the Americans bomb our cities and islands. It would only be decades later that I find out about the atrocities committed by the Empire and even then, I may dismiss it as propaganda.

[Imperial Joseon]

Okay, it'd be foolish to support a rogue nation like Japan. They have basically lost WWII, when they went on a campaign to conquer and enslave those whom they have striked on warfare. They have forced them to human experimentation, just as they do animal testing. I wouldn't support a nation like that.

[Infected Mushroom]

Okay, it'd be foolish to support a rogue nation like Japan. They have basically lost WWII, when they went on a campaign to conquer and enslave those whom they have striked on warfare. They have forced them to human experimentation, just as they do animal testing. I wouldn't support a nation like that.

so for all of the variations you would support the USA?

would you have perceived Japan as a rogue nation though at the time?

[Imperial Joseon]

Okay, it'd be foolish to support a rogue nation like Japan. They have basically lost WWII, when they went on a campaign to conquer and enslave those whom they have striked on warfare. They have forced them to human experimentation, just as they do animal testing. I wouldn't support a nation like that.

so for all of the variations you would support the USA?

would you have perceived Japan as a rogue nation though at the time?

The Japanese government seems to be at fault, not the people, in general. However, I have to say Shinzo Abe is pushing ultranationalist policies to gain permission from the U.S. to mobilize their troops and promote nuclear wastelands like Fukushima as well as food exports from there, which have been confirmed to have high levels of cesium. An addition to this would be his stubbornness to continue the Olympics in regular schedule, despite other nations discouraging him. This is why I doubt he cares about humanity.

[New haven america]

Why did you make a thread that gives Gim a platform to rant about their hatred of Japan for possible pages?

[Valentine Z]

Well, scheisse... This is like that one time in conscription where my buddies asked light-heartedly (it's not loaded and I didn't get shit for answering):

If one day Singapore and Burma goes to war, where would you support?

Same energy, so... Regardless of my citizenship and the variations, I would just become a wartime photographer as photography is my hobby, or become a negotiator, or stuck behind Hawaii. WW2 is not a fun time for everyone involved, so I am certain that regardless of the side I chose, or being neutral, I'm most likely gonna be shitcanned.

With that said, without any knowledge of WW2, and assuming that I know nothing about the outcome of the war... Most likely US. Assuming that I get the knowledge that the Americans are much stronger in a way, signing up for an army and just breezing my way through, praying that I don't have to kill anyone, just might be it.

Other than Variation 1, I'll stay in USA. if you are born in Japan, chances are good that you go back to your country, lest the Japanese-Americans are treated badly in Japan itself.

End of my poorly thought-out thought.

[Infected Mushroom]

Why did you make a thread that gives Gim a platform to rant about their hatred of Japan for possible pages on end?

who's Gim?

[New haven america]

Why did you make a thread that gives Gim a platform to rant about their hatred of Japan for possible pages on end?

who's Gim?

Imperial Joseon's other profile.

[Nolo gap]

i don't think i would support either. not the u.s. because of the balfore compact, which basically forced japan into conflict with the u.s. and britain if it were to develop a modern technological infrastructure, which paradoxically the u.s. was also promoting it to do so.

but the emporor, even if he was supposedly, like all of the imperial family, somehow related to the goddess of life and fertility. blood of the devine hierarchy and all that, but the treatment of those defeated was without honor.

i would probably be in one of those holding camps, but i would be more annoyed that as an innocent i was being held in one, then really any position on either side in the war. i would also not have considered the emperor wise to have aligned with axis europe. (which if it had won, he would have found himself, almost immediately in conflict with, though of course, there is a chance he might have one that one too. he would eventually have gotten too old to manage things and that would have begun a whole new timeline then anything we're familiar with on this one.)

[Thermodolia]

I do have a question and that would determine what I choose, how old am I in all of these? Am I a child or am I an adult?

[United Muscovite Nations]

I see what you're doing here as this was a real SCOTUS case.

[Infected Mushroom]

I do have a question and that would determine what I choose, how old am I in all of these? Am I a child or am I an adult?

when I wrote it I was thinking you're as old as you are now, but I guess you could answer with variations of the OP if there's a decidedly different answer for each specific setting

[Bromagia]

Loyal to the USA. If I'm still me then in any of the variations I'm opposed to arbitrary and excessive government imposition on my life. Clearly incompatible with Imperial Japan.

[Thermodolia]

I do have a question and that would determine what I choose, how old am I in all of these? Am I a child or am I an adult?

when I wrote it I was thinking you're as old as you are now, but I guess you could answer with variations of the OP if there's a decidedly different answer for each specific setting

Fair enough.

In that case I’d be loyal to the USA. Hands down in all cases. I was born in the US in three of the four and in the last one we lived in the US for 7 years. The US would be my home.

In scenario four however probably wouldn’t happen as I would have been 18 prior to moving to Japan and more than likely never would have gone. If I did somehow move I would have supported the US as a spy

[United Muscovite Nations]

when I wrote it I was thinking you're as old as you are now, but I guess you could answer with variations of the OP if there's a decidedly different answer for each specific setting

Fair enough.

In that case I’d be loyal to the USA. Hands down in all cases. I was born in the US in three of the four and in the last one we lived in the US for 7 years. The US would be my home.

In scenario four however probably wouldn’t happen as I would have been 18 prior to moving to Japan and more than likely never would have gone. If I did somehow move I would have supported the US as a spy

IIRC, and I could be wrong as it's been a long time since I've read about it, but in the RL case the fourth is based on, the guy was born in the US, but his parents moved back to Japan with him when he was a kid, and he went through all his schooling in Japan, and was then sentenced to death after the war because he was a conscript in the IJA, despite the fact that he held dual citizenship to the US and Japan.

He was pardoned on the condition that he live the rest of his life in Japan, which he did.

[Imperial Joseon]

Why did you make a thread that gives Gim a platform to rant about their hatred of Japan for possible pages?

Okay, why do you even care? I'm just telling the truth about the Japanese government, and, if you don't like it, give a proper rebuttal, instead of attacking me personally? Or, perhaps, you can't come up with one?

[Thermodolia]

Fair enough.

In that case I’d be loyal to the USA. Hands down in all cases. I was born in the US in three of the four and in the last one we lived in the US for 7 years. The US would be my home.

In scenario four however probably wouldn’t happen as I would have been 18 prior to moving to Japan and more than likely never would have gone. If I did somehow move I would have supported the US as a spy

IIRC, and I could be wrong as it's been a long time since I've read about it, but in the RL case the fourth is based on, the guy was born in the US, but his parents moved back to Japan with him when he was a kid, and he went through all his schooling in Japan, and was then sentenced to death after the war because he was a conscript in the IJA, despite the fact that he held dual citizenship to the US and Japan.

He was pardoned on the condition that he live the rest of his life in Japan, which he did.

Well ya that would definitely change things. As it stands though IM said we’d be our current age which would mean that I’d be an adult at the time of moving to Japan so I wouldn’t even go to Japan due to the fact that I’d be over the age of 18 and an American citizen

[Infected Mushroom]

Was immigration to Japan in the 1930s not really a thing?

No one was interested in moving from the west to the Far East?

[Imperial Joseon]

when I wrote it I was thinking you're as old as you are now, but I guess you could answer with variations of the OP if there's a decidedly different answer for each specific setting

Fair enough.

In that case I’d be loyal to the USA. Hands down in all cases. I was born in the US in three of the four and in the last one we lived in the US for 7 years. The US would be my home.

In scenario four however probably wouldn’t happen as I would have been 18 prior to moving to Japan and more than likely never would have gone. If I did somehow move I would have supported the US as a spy

I mean, Japan is not a bad place to live, although it's not a personal favourite, when I have to face storms and monsoons every summer. U.S.A. is not an ideal place for me, but if I were to choose between U.S. and Japan, I'd choose the former.

[Heloin]

Was immigration to Japan in the 1930s not really a thing?

No one was interested in moving from the west to the Far East?

No.

[Infected Mushroom]

Was immigration to Japan in the 1930s not really a thing?

No one was interested in moving from the west to the Far East?

No.

How come?

It was only East to west?

[Imperial Joseon]

Was immigration to Japan in the 1930s not really a thing?

No one was interested in moving from the west to the Far East?

No.

Only those in East Asia, I believe. Japan did have decent education systems, so many Chinese and Koreans did immigrate there to study in their universities.

[Kandorith]

Great, another platform which allows for hatred towards Japan from certain people, haven't seen that enough lately yet....

Any way being an actual Japanese expat living in Europe(I know it's not the USA but bear with me), I have always felt torn between my new adopted land and my homeland. Next to being born in Japan, My mother was a foreigner which is already a rarity in Japan. I was raised bilingual and with two cultures. The older I got, the more obvious it was I did not really belong to the heritage I am however very proud of.

Then came my decision to move to Europe and had great expectations of my other heritage, I moved to one of the most tolerant countries in the world, or they say so themselves, The Netherlands. The culture shock which followed broke my heart basically. Not only was it difficult to integrate in a very seemingly selfish society, I was a complete outcast. Today I speak a more proper Dutch than a lot of Dutch people, but I am still treated as an outcast. My culture is viewed as weird and have endured racism, discrimination and even assault purely for looks. Now of course this is just a very small part of the Dutch people, but it does leave a scar.

I am at a point in my life where I realise how proud I am of my heritage, even though the Japan has made its utterly historical mistakes and committed unnamable atrocities. I will always remain loyal to the Japanese state as a symbol, not to the government. I also will always remain loyal to the Japanese people and feel more connected to them than the Dutch. However, I have no malice or hatred towards my new adopted land and I do my part in society.

Now during WWII this would be even worse as Dutch-Indonesia was also swiftly taken by the Japanese army in the first years of the war and from what I know from many friends of mine the discrimination against all Asian people was really bad, even after the war and even today, Asian people in The Netherlands are basically second class citizens.

Tldr; for me variation 1 would be the most realistic and even then most likely I would support the Japanese Empire as an idea, not their actions. As I know for a fact from my parents my grandfather always spoke very highly of the Empire as a whole but hated the way it turned out in practice. Heck my favorite books on history I own are mostly about the Meiji Era and I always imagine how differently it could've turned out if Toyo never came to power.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Why did you make a thread that gives Gim a platform to rant about their hatred of Japan for possible pages?

Okay, why do you even care? I'm just telling the truth about the Japanese government, and, if you don't like it, give a proper rebuttal, instead of attacking me personally? Or, perhaps, you can't come up with one?

Just out of curiosity and if you don’t wish to answer that’s fair but, did your family suffer a lot during the Japanese invasion of Korea? You display a lot of hate towards Japan often and I was wondering.

[Infected Mushroom]

Fair enough.

In that case I’d be loyal to the USA. Hands down in all cases. I was born in the US in three of the four and in the last one we lived in the US for 7 years. The US would be my home.

In scenario four however probably wouldn’t happen as I would have been 18 prior to moving to Japan and more than likely never would have gone. If I did somehow move I would have supported the US as a spy

I mean, Japan is not a bad place to live, although it's not a personal favourite, when I have to face storms and monsoons every summer. U.S.A. is not an ideal place for me, but if I were to choose between U.S. and Japan, I'd choose the former.

I travelled there a few times and I was very very impressed with the cleanliness of the country, the fine-ness of their goods and services, and the honor/manner/respect of their people