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The Great Discord ?

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Unibot III
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The Great Discord ?

Postby Unibot III » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:43 am

So over the past little bit I've been neatly slotting some NS events into old historical 'eras' from the past, much of these eras were already named (Antiquity, Great War). Sirocco named the Great Decline. I named the Great Revival at the time. Belschaft named the Cold War.

  • Antiquity - 2002-2003 (Creation - Nazi Wars - Farkers - Atlantic Alliance - Spammers)
    Pre- August Revolution.
  • The Great War - 2003-2006 (ADN vs. NPO/PRP - RLA - ACCEL).
    Francos Spain's revolution in the Pacific invites international condemnation.
  • The Great Decline - 2007-2009 (Influence - CyberNations - The Empire - DSA - NPO 2.0 - FRA - NS2 - End of Jolt/NSUN).
    Panic over the game's future turns players to desperate measures to revitalize/reinvent NS.
  • The Great Revival - 2010-2012 (Macedon - WASC - Devonitians - UDL - Balder/Osiris - TBR - NS IPO).
    An era defined by its optimism and idealism, especially for the future of the game.
  • The Cold War - 2013-2015 (SPPR - Ind. Manifesto - UIAF - SovCon - PRL - OFO - Sovereignty Conference - NLO - Hileville).
    Coalition-building draws major regions into a series of hotly contested proxy battles, conferences, and unsteady alliances.

But I think I've thought of a good title for the subsequent era...

  • The Great Discord - 2016-2018 (Predator Scandal - TGW - UDoL - Khanate - St Abbaddon Crisis - Rahls)

It's a play on words: "Discord" refers the social platform, of course (which was especially important to this era, a period marked by its interpersonal activity) but it also signifies the era's moral confusion and ambiguity, the series of civil wars, and Gameplay's directionlessness at times as it operated in an institutional void.

I suspect 2019 marked a turning point of sorts, especially with the Rahls suffering a major political blow. But I don't know where it's headed and these things always take time to analyze.

(In my heyday I'd have written a 5000 word essay on the Great Discord, but today I thought I'd just throw it out there and see what people thought! :P)
Last edited by Unibot III on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:50 am, edited 6 times in total.
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:23 am

Heh I like these eras you've outlined. I feel they're pretty accurate on the nature of NS during those years. For me my start was during the Great War, 2003-2005 mainly, and those were my Trav Khar days, and war/strife was common. Then I was probably least active during the The Great Decline, and my greatest achievements occurred during The Great Revival. Cold war also fits since that's when Hell put up it's walls.

The Great Discord sounds like a fitting name for 2016-2018.
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Postby Queen Yuno » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:05 pm

"the great discord" makes me think, you're trying to advertise something like "the greatest discord server"

also lol "Adytus" , really?
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Alright my bad I guess I'll check back in December 21st


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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:30 pm

The Stalker wrote:Heh I like these eras you've outlined. I feel they're pretty accurate on the nature of NS during those years. For me my start was during the Great War, 2003-2005 mainly, and those were my Trav Khar days, and war/strife was common. Then I was probably least active during the The Great Decline, and my greatest achievements occurred during The Great Revival. Cold war also fits since that's when Hell put up it's walls.

The Great Discord sounds like a fitting name for 2016-2018.


Thank you! As I said, most of the names aren't my own. Belschaft really got the conversation started about a "Cold War." 'Antiquity' is a quirk of the game code, it ends at Nov 2003 ish. "The Great War" was talked about in NS circles for years.

I just thought "The Great Discord" would sufficiently cover the mood and temper of the times.

"the great discord" makes me think, you're trying to advertise something like "the greatest discord server"

also lol "Adytus" , really?


I thought those revelations/leaks were quite significant - certainly caused a lot of drama.

Ahaha, no I'm not advertising a server. :P I'm probably banned from it!
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Boda
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Postby Boda » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:33 pm

Then what would this era be?

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Postby North East Somerset » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:04 pm

Unibot III wrote:today I thought I'd just throw it out there and see what people thought! :P


Pleasantly surprised not to find reams of grandiose waffle following this rudimentary analysis.
Last edited by North East Somerset on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:09 pm

Boda wrote:Then what would this era be?


Don't know and probably too earlier to tell. I'd invite folks to discuss what forces/dynamics are driving today's GP and where it's headed.

If the Great Discord was a time of civil unrest, social upheaval, moral ambiguity, you could see the present and future serve as a reaction to the past. Maybe people will seek stronger civil institutions, moral clarity and direction, and stability. Maybe the future of NS politics will be intercellular or isolationist or imperialist. Change comes in many forms. I suspect though that the future of NS, present included, may be preparing for a zero or negative growth situation. Like a bear preparing for hibernation. That means institutions reconstituting themselves at a legal and political level to be more sustainable with lower levels of activity and commitment. Governments of old in NS required constant attention and activity to keep everything updated and regulations current and elections running on a regular basis. We may be headed for an NS where constitutional protocols anticipate less activity from their players.

That's just a thought though (mulling it over), I've only seen a few signs of such a phenomenon here or there, but enough to signal something on the horizon perhaps. I think I've been disappointed there really are no attempts at multilateral coalition building anymore, no "grand alliances" etc. A creative renewal could be quite exciting, where new pacts and organizations are contemplated.

Pleasantly surprised not to find reams of grandiose waffle following this rudimentary analysis.


I've added a few paragraphs of waffle in this post to satisfy my own inner word quota, haha. :P
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:24 pm, edited 5 times in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
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Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Davelands
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Postby Davelands » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:26 pm

I too like the eras you put forth. They all make logical sense.
But I do agree with Yuno in asking is Adytus really an important enough character to be added in the subheading?
And Empire/Rahl/??? is like the liquid metal Terminator. We just reform in a new motif. :p

Late 2019 + might be considered "The Era of Stability". It seems that most of the CGRs and larger UCRs are very stable. Everyone is forming mutual protection/alliance treaties with each other and nobody rocks the boat. When they do, the big regions come together to squash it (i.e. TEP and to a lesser extent TNP/Lazarus). The majority of decent Gameplayers seem happy in their regional cocoons with intra-regional events as mixers. Everyone is on the same side (mostly). Kinda boring if you ask me.
Last edited by Davelands on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Queen Yuno » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:40 pm

Davelands wrote:I too like the eras you put forth. They all make logical sense.
But I do agree with Yuno in asking is Adytus really an important enough character to be added in the subheading?
And Empire/Rahl/??? is like the liquid metal Terminator. We just reform in a new motif. :p

Late 2019 + might be considered "The Era of Stability". It seems that most of the CGRs and larger UCRs are very stable. Nobody rocks the boat and when they do, the big regions come together to squash it (i.e. TEP and to a lesser extent TNP/Lazarus). The majority of decent Gameplayers seem happy in their regional cocoons with intra-regional events as mixers. Kinda boring if you ask me.


Hey, no more crazy politics please. I enjoy this "boredom"/peace

Simply put, there ARE NO "WAR" GAME MECHANICS! So ALL GCR/NS interregional drama are manufactured. Manufactured from nothingness, or created thought-up drama. Like Facebook drama.

Well in the end, NS is kinda like a "Story" game. All RP or Words. I don't mind it staying like that, but it's like, not real political drama happens outside of regional policies. People are creative. Currently this game is too hard to play in regards of Updates, Timezones; R/D is a trade taught generation to generation by the players, and isn't implicitly obvious like games that mechanically allow war (resources or money.) There's nothing to "fight" over, except manufactured Roleplay aspects. (Even voting for "laws" in the democratic regions, are kinda a roleplay...) ...which, eeh.....
It's weird how all this political meta ended up being created to begin with.

That includes all this

Good luck writing all your NS history :p

Sadly, (and you are indeed correct, I agree with your prediction:) I don't think any political crazy events will be happening from now on, the end of political drama has ended :<
(just my prediction)
Last edited by Queen Yuno on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Alright my bad I guess I'll check back in December 21st


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Postby Saffron Panther » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:52 pm

Queen Yuno wrote:Sadly, (and you are indeed correct, I agree with your prediction:) I don't think any political crazy events will be happening from now on, the end of political drama has ended :<
(just my prediction)


Ah, the "End of History"...how very "Fukuyama" of you :P

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Postby RiderSyl » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:54 pm

The Predator punishments were announced in April 2016, putting it in your "Great Discord" era, but Predator itself first started being used in The Black Riders in July of 2014, and its existence was leaked by me to Tim, Elu, and Chester Pearson in 2015, which also puts it in your "Cold War" era.

Just a note.
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Postby Onderkelkia » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:08 pm

Unibot III wrote:[*] The Great Decline - 2007-2009 (Influence - CyberNations - The Empire - DSA - NPO 2.0 - ACCEL - FRA - NS2 - End of Jolt/NSUN).
Panic over the game's future turns players to desperate measures to revitalize/reinvent NS.

Especially if the beginning of 2007 is the chosen starting point (rather than 2006), ACCEL belongs more in the latter half of the preceding era.

Unibot III wrote: The Great Revival - 2010-2012 (Macedon - WASC - Devonitians - UDL - Balder/Osiris - TBR - NS IPO).
An era defined by its optimism and idealism, especially for the future of the game.
█ The Cold War - 2013-2015 (SPPR - Independent Manifesto - SovCon - PRL - OFO - Sovereignty Conference - NLO).
Coalition-building draws major regions into a series of hotly contested proxy battles, conferences, and unsteady alliances.

Perhaps this is my own biases showing, but I would think that the UIAF (revived April 2013, dissolved March 2015) merits its own mention in relation to 2013-15. Certainly I think that is so if you choose to adopt a "Cold War" framing, as surely TNI/the UIAF was the key actor on one side in the so-called "Cold War"? Although equally much of the ideological (and indeed military) framework underpinning the UIAF can be traced back to TNI and LKE's decisions and successes in the preceding 2010-12 period. The same can be said for the Independent Manifesto and its roots in Europeia's shift to Independence in 2011.

Unibot III wrote:█ The Great Discord - 2016-2018 (Hileville - Predator - Rahls - UDoL -Khanate - Pacifica)

It's a play on words: "Discord" refers the social platform, of course (which was especially important to this era, a period marked by its interpersonal activity) but it also signifies the era's moral confusion and ambiguity, the series of civil wars, and Gameplay's directionlessness at times as it operated in an institutional void.

I suspect 2019 marked a turning point of sorts, especially with the Rahls suffering a major political blow. But I don't know where it's headed and these things always take time to analyze.

The long-term social impact of Discord on the process of gameplay has been more evident from late 2018 onwards than 2016 to the first half of 2018.
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:27 pm

Davelands wrote:I too like the eras you put forth. They all make logical sense.
But I do agree with Yuno in asking is Adytus really an important enough character to be added in the subheading?


I've taken Adytus out. Thanks!

And Empire/Rahl/??? is like the liquid metal Terminator. We just reform in a new motif. :p


Heh.

Late 2019 + might be considered "The Era of Stability". It seems that most of the CGRs and larger UCRs are very stable. Everyone is forming mutual protection/alliance treaties with each other and nobody rocks the boat. When they do, the big regions come together to squash it (i.e. TEP and to a lesser extent TNP/Lazarus). The majority of decent Gameplayers seem happy in their regional cocoons with intra-regional events as mixers. Everyone is on the same side (mostly). Kinda boring if you ask me.


The one thing I'll say here is stability can create a vacuum when institutions hollow out and become critically inactive. It's easier to experiment and convince other people to take risks and innovate when there is an overwhelming concern over activity levels and there are less people in an electorate to have to persuade.

RiderSyl wrote:The Predator punishments were announced in April 2016, putting it in your "Great Discord" era, but Predator itself first started being used in The Black Riders in July of 2014, and its existence was leaked by me to Tim, Elu, and Chester Pearson in 2015, which also puts it in your "Cold War" era.

Just a note.


Yeah I should have been more specific, I meant the Predator Punishments.

I think over the course of 2015-2016, we saw an enormous change in GP. Imperialists, invaders, independents, NPO - basically all of the factions of the Cold War - took major hits. Recruitment bans, DoS, failed coups. The fallout meant the end of the Cold War effectively. It was an unraveling of the existing order of things.

Apr. 2015 - NLO.
Jun. 2015 - LKE Recruitment Ban.
Aug 2015 - Krulltopia steps down.
Oct. 2015 - Collapse of the Congress of Sovereigns.
Jan. 2016 - Hileville's coup in TSP.
Apr. 2016 - Predator Scandal.

Especially if the beginning of 2007 is the chosen starting point (rather than 2006), ACCEL belongs more in the latter half of the preceding era.


Noted.

Perhaps this is my own biases showing, but I would think that the UIAF (revived April 2013, dissolved March 2015) merits its own mention in relation to 2013-15. Certainly I think that is so if you choose to adopt a "Cold War" framing, as surely TNI/the UIAF was the key actor on one side in the so-called "Cold War"? Although equally much of the ideological (and indeed military) framework underpinning the UIAF can be traced back to TNI and LKE's decisions and successes in the preceding 2010-12 period. The same can be said for the Independent Manifesto and its roots in Europeia's shift to Independence in 2011.


I absolutely agree about UIAF, I intended to list it. I think the roots of the Cold War definitely manifested themselves in the Revival at an intellectual level (UDL, for starters). But we saw the real proxy battles and conflict starting into 2013.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Onderkelkia » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:20 pm

Unibot III wrote:Yeah I should have been more specific, I meant the Predator Punishments.

I think over the course of 2015-2016, we saw an enormous change in GP. Imperialists, invaders, independents, NPO - basically all of the factions of the Cold War - took major hits. Recruitment bans, DoS, failed coups. The fallout meant the end of the Cold War effectively.

Apr. 2015 - NLO.
Jun. 2015 - LKE Recruitment Ban.
Oct. 2015 - Collapse of the Congress of Sovereigns.
Jan. 2016 - Hileville's coup in TSP.
Apr. 2016 - Predator Scandal.

Insofar as the capacity and power of the imperialist regions was concerned, the only two events/processes of any consequence were:

(1) The March 2015 end of the UIAF, associated with Albion's withdrawal (in turn associated with Charles Cerebella abdicating from the throne of TNI a few weeks earlier that same month, as he moved away from NS, and the destructive tendencies/pro-defender turn of Casisus Cerebella/Consular);

(2) The demise of TNI over the course of 2015 - in some respects, quite rapid, and in other senses, very gradual and structural.

From 2006 to 2009, there there were three major archetypal imperialist regions - GB&I, the LKE, and TNI. EoE was the fourth member of the original Congress of Sovereigns alongside the other three, but was not as significant and differed in gameplay focus. (I could also add further qualifications to that, in particular that there was a non-imperialist element within GB&I as well as the predominant imperialist element, and the LKE was inactive during part of 2008). From the latter half of 2009 until mid-2013, there were two major imperialist regions (TNI and the LKE). From mid-2013 until early 2015, there was TNI, the LKE and Albion - although the latter's status as an imperialist region was very much dependent on Charles Cerebella's personal involvement.

Once the UIAF was gone and TNI was in terminal decline, the LKE was and is the only classic imperialist region from that sphere left. It is that simple.

The second and ill-fated Congress of Sovereigns, which you reference, was partly an instinctive response to the LKE's unfamiliar situation of being a solitary imperialist region, but it never made enough impact for its loss to mean much save a potential opportunity foregone. Of the other members, British Isles was regrettably inactive, while the LKE and United Kingdom remain good allies today, but the latter is not really an imperialist region. As for KGB, in view of their actions in and immediately before October 2015, they never had any potential as an ally and the LKE was right to spurn them from that point.

Despite the reduction in our population, the three-month recruitment block, starting from April 2015 (not June 2015), and arising from Bob Moran's illegal recruitment script, did not have much long-term effect for our activities as an imperialist region. Our normal and legitimate API recruitment script subsequently ensured that, once the recruitment block ended, we returned to a regular population level. It had zero effect on our approach to foreign affairs. Discovering Bob Moran's actions and their consequences was a deeply distressing experience, but as a region we collectively resolved not to allow it to hinder our normal gameplay activities. We proceeded to behave exactly as we would have done if that whole affair never occurred. We were engaging in normal gameplay politics very shortly afterwards (as initiatives such as the second Congress of Sovereigns later that year lay testament to). To the extent that there was any difference in our external strategy post-2015, it was the end of the UIAF and especially of TNI which altered the LKE's political options.

The irony of the UIAF's demise is that, of the three regions, the LKE is the one which has easily emerged from it the strongest, despite being the region which was most strongly and persistently belittled by defenders and those who spent time listening to defenders. Sadly, it was perhaps predictable that the LKE would fare better than TNI - which, during Charles Cerebella's dual reign of TNI and Albion, was in heavy decline throughout 2014 before the end of the UIAF. Many here, however, would have forecasted Albion to fare better relative to the LKE. That was certainly the expectation of Albion's inexperienced leadership when they opted to leave the imperialist project they painted as holding them back. Reality has proved to be somewhat different. The continued success of the LKE today, in spite of the loss of TNI and a changed gameplay world, is a sign of imperialist strength and robustness, not of weakness.

One faction in the so-called "Cold War" that you do not list here is the defenders and their decline in this period. You do mention the New Lazarene Order, I assume regarding the NPO, but the implication of that was, at least until 2018, fracturing the Defender-Francoist alliance born of the September 2013 coup. The Founderless Regions Alliance - against which TNI had waged war continually since 2006 and the LKE continually since 2010 - closed its doors in 2016, having been inactive for much of the preceding period (with the death of activity in all its UCRs), and the UDL had ceased to be of significance even earlier. The FRA and the UDL were part of the rival institutional structures on the defender side as much as the UIAF was on the imperialist side. So let us not pretend that inactivity and decline were confined to imperialist side. Especially outside GCRs, the defenders post-2015 were institutionally weaker.
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Church of Satan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:55 pm

Onderkelkia wrote:One faction in the so-called "Cold War" that you do not list here is the defenders and their decline in this period. You do mention the New Lazarene Order, I assume regarding the NPO, but the implication of that was, at least until 2018, fracturing the Defender-Francoist alliance born of the September 2013 coup. The Founderless Regions Alliance - against which TNI had waged war continually since 2006 and the LKE continually since 2010 - closed its doors in 2016, having been inactive for much of the preceding period (with the death of activity in all its UCRs), and the UDL had ceased to be of significance even earlier. The FRA and the UDL were part of the rival institutional structures on the defender side as much as the UIAF was on the imperialist side. So let us not pretend that inactivity and decline were confined to imperialist side. Especially outside GCRs, the defenders post-2015 were institutionally weaker.

I'm not so sure I'd say weaker. I think everyone on both sides just got bored of the whole thing after so long. However I am rather surprised that the FRA/UIAF war wasn't specifically mentioned. It was a huge part of GP during that time.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:58 pm

I'm saddled between the two eras - Cold War and the Discord Era.

Though, I suppose that I belong more to the Discord Era because of my increased activity in Discord at that time, and also because I only got a lot more active around 2016. ^^

That's also the very first time I have learned about a major scandal (the Predator script), the one that involves multiple staff, along with the Unholy Red Text of Doom.

I don't have negative opinions on NSGP just because of that; I'm well-aware that not everyone are like that! But it just gave me a lesson that sometimes... We as a people either just did some dumb stuff, or we just have that vain hope that we would never get caught.

I would get into NSGP and the idea of defending or raiding, but I somehow never did; I just gravitated towards other sub-forums that I now call my home.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Queen Yuno
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Queen Yuno » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:18 pm

Saffron Panther wrote:
Queen Yuno wrote:Sadly, I don't think any political crazy events will be happening from now on, the era of political drama has ended :<
(just my prediction)


Ah, the "End of History"...how very "Fukuyama" of you :P



Except I'm actually right, in my prediction.... you will see.
There will be no more big crazy political drama.
There are people stomping down CCD's nooby horribly-executed infiltration attempts on TNP.
There are plenty of anti fash bash


Also, no one is going to give a sh*t enough to coup anything "important" and succeed, and by Coup I mean Coup GCRs. You can't coup foundered UCRs (there will be internal coups but the owner of the region and forum hold ultimate control, objectively speaking, no matter how people think they're the President/WA Delegate/discord Mod/whatever, everything they do is based on trusting the owner to not suddenly ban/kick them out.)

Sure, a Streamer can come in with 1000+ followers, but they don't care about this. And mechanically speaking, what streamer can get all 1000 people to jump precisely at update and not miss? The game mechanics don't allow people to steadily trickle in(they'll just get banned by whoever's running the show as soon as he detects these endorsements going to 1 specific person,) so a streamer can/will fail.

It's physically impossible to coup anything unless you're in-too-deep and promoted from the inside to the top, and by then you'd be basically betraying people you grew to know through hard efforts and time and community work within that specific community, and feel like shit that you've just ran a psych op when you actually do coup. So no one coups (disclaimed: I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying crazy politics have died, which some may call boring, and others will call it peaceful/positive.)


Onderkelkia wrote:
The long-term social impact of Discord on the process of gameplay has been more evident from late 2018 onwards than 2016 to the first half of 2018.


This is what I'm saying is a factor too ^^^^

Alongside the lack of actual game mechanics (outside of writing-related mechanics like WA and Issues) -- and how Update is so insignificant 99.99% of the time (you can only hit founderless regions, too, to make any impact, and everyone just moves to a new foundered region and comes out stronger; their discord remains untouched as raiding that is against Discord TOS.)

You have discord for people to hangout at, forums for internal regional politics, and no war (update doesn't count as war anymore)

There's not gonna be IC dramatic power struggles anymore, for ever.
It was fun while it lasted though. It's fine too lol. The game will live on without it.

I'm just predicting realistically, insane interregional "big" politics have died; there's nothing to fight over anymore.

It's like how no one uses "Nintendo DS" anymore even though back then that was *the thing* everyone used. (Credits to a friend who telegramed me the description. Oh btw, no one seems to use telegrams for serious correspondence anymore either, as it's no longer 2010.)

Just do writing contests like the TWP one, have peace <3
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Thanks for reading my predictions XD I was bored
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Alright my bad I guess I'll check back in December 21st


No way

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:20 pm

I'm not sure Pacifica really merits a solo mention to itself there - essentially everything with it that I'm aware of was internal or external only to the extent that people kicked out had to be somewhere.

Otherwise, the Rahls probably belong at the end of the list for their Era more, given that marking the supposed dissolution of the family is probably more important than their general power before that.

Also puzzled about the non-inclusion of the NPO stuff from the end of 2018, given the actual ongoing impact of that and all (and pretty darn matching to your identified theme).
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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:22 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:I'm not sure Pacifica really merits a solo mention to itself there - essentially everything with it that I'm aware of was internal or external only to the extent that people kicked out had to be somewhere.

Otherwise, the Rahls probably belong at the end of the list for their Era more, given that marking the supposed dissolution of the family is probably more important than their general power before that.

Also puzzled about the non-inclusion of the NPO stuff from the end of 2018, given the actual ongoing impact of that and all (and pretty darn matching to your identified theme).

I'd replace Pacifica with St Abbaddon, honestly.
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Onderkelkia
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Corporate Police State

Postby Onderkelkia » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:22 pm

The Church of Satan wrote:
Onderkelkia wrote:One faction in the so-called "Cold War" that you do not list here is the defenders and their decline in this period. You do mention the New Lazarene Order, I assume regarding the NPO, but the implication of that was, at least until 2018, fracturing the Defender-Francoist alliance born of the September 2013 coup. The Founderless Regions Alliance - against which TNI had waged war continually since 2006 and the LKE continually since 2010 - closed its doors in 2016, having been inactive for much of the preceding period (with the death of activity in all its UCRs), and the UDL had ceased to be of significance even earlier. The FRA and the UDL were part of the rival institutional structures on the defender side as much as the UIAF was on the imperialist side. So let us not pretend that inactivity and decline were confined to imperialist side. Especially outside GCRs, the defenders post-2015 were institutionally weaker.

I'm not so sure I'd say weaker. I think everyone on both sides just got bored of the whole thing after so long. However I am rather surprised that the FRA/UIAF war wasn't specifically mentioned. It was a huge part of GP during that time.

In the sense that the structures which previously organised defenders collectively - the FRA and the UDL - ceased to function/exist, they definitely became "institutionally weaker" as I originally observed. The FRA in particular represented a long-standing defender political tradition going back most notably to the ADN and the RLA. The definitive demise of that institutional form of defenderism - whatever the chronology - was a significant process in NS history.

As regards "the FRA/UIAF war", I think it is ahistorical to regard that conflict as starting in 2013 with the UIAF and ending in 2015 with the UIAF. The UIAF had major implications in directly structuring military conflict and in altering political perceptions within 2013-15, but there were long-standing and significant hostilities between the institutions of defenderism and TNI and the LKE before the UIAF. This can be traced to the events of December 2006 (and earlier), although the conflict was more generally prominent from 2010/2011 onwards. 2011 is the point when you started to see regular TNI occupations and large, consistent TNI-LKE piles on occupations by The Black Hawks and The Black Riders. TRR was invaded in February 2012, not February 2014. In another example, the Operation Biscuit mission, recently referenced in the context of the ongoing Security Council vote, began in 2009, not in 2013. What is correct is that the emergence of the UIAF and, in particular, the July 2013 Osiris operation gave this conflict greater importance to the GCRs in general.
Last edited by Onderkelkia on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lord Dominator
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:24 pm

Jar Wattinree wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:I'm not sure Pacifica really merits a solo mention to itself there - essentially everything with it that I'm aware of was internal or external only to the extent that people kicked out had to be somewhere.

Otherwise, the Rahls probably belong at the end of the list for their Era more, given that marking the supposed dissolution of the family is probably more important than their general power before that.

Also puzzled about the non-inclusion of the NPO stuff from the end of 2018, given the actual ongoing impact of that and all (and pretty darn matching to your identified theme).

I'd replace Pacifica with St Abbaddon, honestly.

As an individual event that makes sense, but I'm not sure St Abbaddon really qualifies either - in that the region itself didn't matter nearly so much as what it represented & started.
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The united American-Isreali empire
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Postby The united American-Isreali empire » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:25 pm

Discord is a great service tbh.

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Wabbitslayah
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Wabbitslayah » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:06 am

The Church of Satan wrote:
Onderkelkia wrote:One faction in the so-called "Cold War" that you do not list here is the defenders and their decline in this period. You do mention the New Lazarene Order, I assume regarding the NPO, but the implication of that was, at least until 2018, fracturing the Defender-Francoist alliance born of the September 2013 coup. The Founderless Regions Alliance - against which TNI had waged war continually since 2006 and the LKE continually since 2010 - closed its doors in 2016, having been inactive for much of the preceding period (with the death of activity in all its UCRs), and the UDL had ceased to be of significance even earlier. The FRA and the UDL were part of the rival institutional structures on the defender side as much as the UIAF was on the imperialist side. So let us not pretend that inactivity and decline were confined to imperialist side. Especially outside GCRs, the defenders post-2015 were institutionally weaker.

I'm not so sure I'd say weaker. I think everyone on both sides just got bored of the whole thing after so long. However I am rather surprised that the FRA/UIAF war wasn't specifically mentioned. It was a huge part of GP during that time.

No, they got weaker. It was more than boredom.
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Benevolent Thomas
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Postby Benevolent Thomas » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:14 am

Neither 10KI nor TGW are mentioned, yet UDL has yet to escape any opportunity to be touted as one of the most important GP developments in NS history by Unibot. The FRA must be pleased to be achieve the status as a footnote in history, even if its mostly as the predecessor to the UDL.
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Gorundu
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Gorundu » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:54 am

Lord Dominator wrote:I'm not sure Pacifica really merits a solo mention to itself there - essentially everything with it that I'm aware of was internal or external only to the extent that people kicked out had to be somewhere.

Otherwise, the Rahls probably belong at the end of the list for their Era more, given that marking the supposed dissolution of the family is probably more important than their general power before that.

Also puzzled about the non-inclusion of the NPO stuff from the end of 2018, given the actual ongoing impact of that and all (and pretty darn matching to your identified theme).

Agreed. I think the best way to put it would be APC or APC vs. NPO or maybe Death of Francoism.
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