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[DRAFT] Parking-Place Pandemonium

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Authoritaria-Imperia
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[DRAFT] Parking-Place Pandemonium

Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:02 am

I’ve brought this draft back from the depths of the forums! Latest changes: Option 3 has been made into two validity-toggled options, and the religion in option 4 is now the Cult of Cyan!
It's inspired by some controversy in Germany over female-only parking spacesa real thing in parts of the world!
Title: Parking-Place Pandemonium

Validity: Does not have the "No automobiles" policy

A mall in a high-crime neighbourhood recently implemented safer, female-only parking spaces in its garage, offering extra lighting and a short exit path. After visiting-celebrity Bill Fences had his car towed for using one himself, they’ve hit the headlines.

Option 1:
"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. Fences, "I don't care if women are safer this way; this is sexist. Men get assaulted too, you know! I thought everyone was given an equal opportunity in this country, and boy, was I wrong! Ban those sexist monstrosities!"
Effect: cautious women know at least three forms of martial art

Option 2:
“These spaces are a great idea!“ interjects your Minister of Safety, while capping all of your pointiest pens, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe a universal 20% quota on female spaces would do wonders for assault rates! By bringing them down, I mean…"
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Option 3a: For nations accepting of non-binary sexuality
Your mother offers another approach. "Remember what I used to do when you and your siblings got into arguments? I locked you all in separate rooms to deal with your anger! You should make each car park one or the other — all boys or all girls!" She scratches her head, "Oh, and a couple spaces for those young folk who say they aren’t either."
Effect: gender segregation is all the rage right now

Option 3b: For nations not accepting of non-binary sexuality
Your mother offers another approach. "Remember what I used to do when you and your siblings got into arguments? I locked you all in separate rooms to deal with your anger! You should make each car park one or the other — all boys or all girls!"
Effect: gender segregation is all the rage right now

Option 4:
"SILENCE!" exclaims His Wisdom N. Sanni T., a priest of the Cult of Cyan, "'Tis a great insult to our Teal Guardian to keep a car parked in stillness! No, they must be kept in motion, as symbols of our eternal Loyalty. Cyan demands we use—" He gazes up at the ceiling, "… conveyor belts."
Effect: being stuck in traffic is considered a sin
Title: No Place for Safe Spaces?
Validity: Does not have the "No Automobiles" policy
Headlines were made yesterday when rich company-CEO @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@ was arrested for parking his Lamborrari sports car in a designated female-only parking space.

Option 1:"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1, "I don't care if women are safer having spaces near exits — this is sexist. Assault schmault — I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity in this country, regardless of piddly things like their gender or the size of their inheritance! Get rid of 'em, and ditch those wheelchair-accessible spaces while you're at it — if you're that disabled, you shouldn't be driving anyway!"
Effect: women often carry shields to parking garages

Option 2:"No way — those spaces are there for a good reason," interjects black-clad @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, after rising slowly from a hiding place behind your desk, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe we should mark half of all public parking as female-only. It's the best way to keep @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ women safe from those creeps hiding in the shadows!" He disappears behind your desk again.
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Option 3:"Has no one else noticed the real problem here?" asks feminist @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, scowling, "Those female spaces are PINK. Why are we indoctrinating young girls with the notion that colour is so important? You don't see regular spaces painted baby blue. Keep female-only spaces, but mark them differently, and crack down on toy colouring for young girls — THAT's where all the trouble starts. No pink, no exceptions!"
Effect: "politically correct" toys only come in brown and beige
Title: Is There a Place for Safe Spaces?

Validity: Does not have the "No automobiles" policy

A mall in a high-crime neighbourhood recently implemented safer, female-only parking spaces in its garage, offering extra lighting and a short exit path. After rich company-CEO @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@ was arrested for using one himself, they’ve hit the headlines.

Option 1:
"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1, "I don't care if women are safer this way — this is sexist. Assault schmault — I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity in this country, regardless of piddly things like gender or inheritance size! Get rid of these spaces, and ditch those wheelchair-accessible ones while you're at it — if you're that disabled, you shouldn't be driving anyway!"
Effect: women often carry shields to parking garages

Option 2:
“For ages, parking hasn’t been going anywhere, but these new spaces will make safety a walk in the park!“ interjects black-clad @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, after rising slowly from a hiding place behind your desk, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe we should mark half of all public parking — nah, 70% — as female-only. It's the best way to keep @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ women safe from those creeps hiding in the shadows!" He disappears behind your desk again.
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Option 3:
“I’m all for public safety, but we need to back up — this is an infringement on our civil rights!” points out activist @@RANDOMNAME@@, “I’m tyred of all this control — why should the government decide where people can park? And come to think of it, why does it get to regulate parking at all? Double-parking does drive me insane, but it’s not the government’s business. Give us some space with our spaces, and stay in your lane, @@LEADER@@!”
Effect: parking spots are interpreted as “suggestions”

Option 4:
"Has no one else noticed the real problem here?" asks feminist @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, scowling, "Those female spaces are PINK. Why are we indoctrinating young girls with the notion that colour is so important? You don't see regular spaces painted baby blue. Keep female-only spaces, but mark them differently, and crack down on toy colouring for young girls — THAT's where all the trouble starts. No pink, no exceptions!"
Effect: "politically correct" toys only come in brown and beige
Title: Parking-Place Pandemonium

Validity: Does not have the "No automobiles" policy

A mall in a high-crime neighbourhood recently implemented safer, female-only parking spaces in its garage, offering extra lighting and a short exit path. After visiting-celebrity @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@ had his car towed for using one himself, they’ve hit the headlines.

Option 1:
"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@, "I don't care if women are safer this way — this is sexist. Men get assaulted too, you know! I thought everyone was given an equal opportunity in this country, and boy, was I wrong! Don't expect me to come back 'til you ban those sexist monstrosities!"
Effect: cautious women know at least three forms of martial art

Option 2:
"These new spaces will make my job so much easier — it'll practically be a walk in the park!" interjects your Minister of Safety, while capping all of your pointiest pens, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe a universal 20% quota on female spaces will do wonders for assault rates! By bringing them down, I mean…"
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Option 3:
"It's not a matter of equality versus safety. We need to back up — this is an infringement on our civil rights!" points out activist @@RANDOMNAME@@. "I'm tyred of all this government control! That mall deserves the freedom to decide this stuff for itself. I say we privatise all public parking, and let the people do whatever they want! Give us some space with our spaces, @@LEADER@@ and stay in your lane!"
Effect: many parking garages double as nightclubs

Option 4:
"Has no one else noticed the real problem here?" asks feminist @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, scowling, "Those female spaces are PINK. Why are we indoctrinating young girls with the notion that colour is so important? You don't see regular spaces painted baby blue. Keep female-only spaces, but mark them differently, and crack down on toy colouring for young girls — THAT's where all the trouble starts. No pink, no exceptions!"
Effect: "politically correct" toys only come in brown and beige
Title: Parking-Place Pandemonium

Validity: Does not have the "No automobiles" policy

A mall in a high-crime neighbourhood recently implemented safer, female-only parking spaces in its garage, offering extra lighting and a short exit path. After visiting-celebrity Bill Fences had his car towed for using one himself, they’ve hit the headlines.

Option 1:
"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. Fences, "I don't care if women are safer this way; this is sexist. Men get assaulted too, you know! I thought everyone was given an equal opportunity in this country, and boy, was I wrong! Ban those sexist monstrosities!"
Effect: cautious women know at least three forms of martial art

Option 2:
“These spaces are a great idea!“ interjects your Minister of Safety, while capping all of your pointiest pens, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe a universal 20% quota on female spaces would do wonders for assault rates! By bringing them down, I mean…"
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Option 3:
"Has no one else noticed the real problem here?" asks feminist @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, scowling, "Those female spaces are PINK. Why are we indoctrinating young girls with the notion that colour is so important? You don't see regular spaces painted baby blue. Let garages have their special spaces, but mark them differently, and crack down on toy colouring for young girls — THAT's where all the trouble starts. No pink, no exceptions!"
Effect: "politically correct" toys only come in brown and beige
All advice would be greatly appreciated. In particular, I'm not super satisfied with the first two effect lines or the title, so if you have any ideas, shoot! :)
Last edited by Authoritaria-Imperia on Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:37 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:21 am

Men are more likely asulted in public than women
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Authoritaria-Imperia
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Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:34 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Men are more likely asulted in public than women

Be that as it may, these spaces are a thing in real life.
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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:50 am

I think first one would have to establish the existence of such spaces in game. They'd be illegal in some nations, and many other nations would probably just say "huh?" having never heard of such a thing. Real life is good inspiration, but things still need an in-game basis. Personally, I've never even heard of such things, so I'd need some explanation of what prompted them.

I actually think it would be a stronger issue to actually have it be about creating such spaces in the first place. There is obviously a case to be made for them, so let players decide if they want to do so! Then you can use similar arguments for whether or not to have them, and avoid the confusion about the meta.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:02 am

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Men are more likely asulted in public than women

Be that as it may, these spaces are a thing in real life.

Yes I know, but your issue is extremely bias in favour of these spaces
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:31 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:Be that as it may, these spaces are a thing in real life.

Yes I know, but your issue is extremely bias in favour of these spaces


Real-life statistics do not equal in game statistics, and are not a valid argument either way.

Also, I daresay your reading of those real life statistics is ignoring a huge amount of context relevant to this particular issue. Your record as a detractor of women's issues is long and public.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:20 am

Let's the options as they currently stand:
Option 1. Whah! I don't wanna park two feet away. I care if you get assaulted, I don't wanna park two feet away
Option 2. Screw you!
Option 3. I'm part of the 50% of the population who is allowed to park in this parking spot. This significantly increases my chances of parking in this spot. Whah! Wrong colour!

If this not bias, I don't know what is

Verdant Haven wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yes I know, but your issue is extremely bias in favour of these spaces


Real-life statistics do not equal in game statistics, and are not a valid argument either way.

Also, I daresay your reading of those real life statistics is ignoring a huge amount of context relevant to this particular issue. Your record as a detractor of women's issues is long and public.

A. Prove me wrong
B. "NS statistics are not..." Doesn't make the issue less bias. Doesn't disprove my point. This changes nothing
C. Someone has a different opinion to me- MISOGYNY ALERT MYSOGYNY ALERT MYSOGYNY ALERT- how dare you not think the exact same exact same way as me? I know, I'll call him a mysognynist! That'll prove him wrong!
D. Prove me wrong
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
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East Priapistan
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Postby East Priapistan » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:21 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Let's the options as they currently stand:
Option 1. Whah! I don't wanna park two feet away. I care if you get assaulted, I don't wanna park two feet away
Option 2. Screw you!
Option 3. I'm part of the 50% of the population who is allowed to park in this parking spot. This significantly increases my chances of parking in this spot. Whah! Wrong colour!

If this not bias, I don't know what is

I'm inclined to agree with this. Nice and relevant issue, but the options aren't exactly well-balanced.

Splitting the first issue into two could make it a bit more even, perhaps: there's the first part, which is "we don't want discrimination, even if it's positive discrimination" - which is a valid position to take - but since it's being combined with "screw disabled people while we're at it", the valid position is being pulled into an extreme. The options are either being pro-discrimination (valid position to take), or being an asshole, basically :lol: Nothing wrong with an option being an extreme, but the non-extreme options should balance each other out at least.

Verdant Haven wrote:I think first one would have to establish the existence of such spaces in game.

Seconded, a bit of extra information could help. Adding a "... in one of the designated female-only parking spaces, which were introduced in a high-crime neighbourhood after a number of cases of assault on women" or such.

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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:16 pm

Female-only parking spaces? This actually exists? That's insane.

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Authoritaria-Imperia
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Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:32 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback. :) I'll get started on a new draft soon. I may go with Verdant Haven's suggestion and make it an issue of introducing the spaces.
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Hypercapital
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Postby Hypercapital » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:36 pm

Option Four (and this would only fly in Hypercapital or any self-respecting, sensical nation-state.): Camps. Camps for all of them.

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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:02 pm

Verdant Haven wrote:I've never even heard of such things, so I'd need some explanation of what prompted them.

Trotterdam wrote:Female-only parking spaces? This actually exists? That's insane.

I find this really surprising. I live in a "developing country" in South East Asia, which is also very religious and conservative, but here every mall has ladies parking areas.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:04 pm

Baggieland wrote:
Verdant Haven wrote:I've never even heard of such things, so I'd need some explanation of what prompted them.

Trotterdam wrote:Female-only parking spaces? This actually exists? That's insane.

I find this really surprising. I live in a "developing country" in South East Asia, which is also very religious and conservative, but here every mall has ladies parking areas.

Malaysia or Indonesia?
Either case, I always thought you were English
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
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Why stylised as "rePublic"
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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:10 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Either case, I always thought you were English

Indeed I am, my antipodean cousin. I heeded the call of Empire, and set out to find my own corner of foreign lands and claim them for Queen and country... well, my apartment unit anyway. :)
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:39 am

Baggieland wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Either case, I always thought you were English

Indeed I am, my antipodean cousin. I heeded the call of Empire, and set out to find my own corner of foreign lands and claim them for Queen and country... well, my apartment unit anyway. :)

:rofl: :lol2: :rofl:
What it's like living in Malaysia?
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
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Authoritaria-Imperia
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New draft up… any thoughts?

Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:23 am

All right. The new draft is up, and much better, I think. Beyond fixing some of the problems you guys have brought up (by changing the description and adding an option), I’ve added like ten parking puns.

Verdant Haven wrote:I think first one would have to establish the existence of such spaces in game. They'd be illegal in some nations, and many other nations would probably just say "huh?" having never heard of such a thing. Real life is good inspiration, but things still need an in-game basis. Personally, I've never even heard of such things, so I'd need some explanation of what prompted them.
I actually think it would be a stronger issue to actually have it be about creating such spaces in the first place. There is obviously a case to be made for them, so let players decide if they want to do so! Then you can use similar arguments for whether or not to have them, and avoid the confusion about the meta.

Thanks. :) The new draft takes care of the explanation part. I've added some backstory, which gave me a chance to explain what these spaces are. Since they were now pioneered by a shopping mall, there's not really as much of a meta issue, as the government didn't previously have a stance either way. The new draft does assume that double-parking is illegal — but that shouldn’t really be a problem, right?

Australian rePublic wrote:Let's the options as they currently stand:
Option 1. Whah! I don't wanna park two feet away. I [don’t?] care if you get assaulted, I don't wanna park two feet away
Option 2. Screw you!
Option 3. I'm part of the 50% of the population who is allowed to park in this parking spot. This significantly increases my chances of parking in this spot. Whah! Wrong colour!
If this not bias, I don't know what is
Verdant Haven wrote:Real-life statistics do not equal in game statistics, and are not a valid argument either way.Also, I daresay your reading of those real life statistics is ignoring a huge amount of context relevant to this particular issue. Your record as a detractor of women's issues is long and public.

A. Prove me wrong
B. "NS statistics are not..." Doesn't make the issue less bias. Doesn't disprove my point. This changes nothing
C. Someone has a different opinion to me- MISOGYNY ALERT MYSOGYNY ALERT MYSOGYNY ALERT- how dare you not think the exact same exact same way as me? I know, I'll call him a mysognynist! That'll prove him wrong!
D. Prove me wrong

Okay, so I’ve added a new option that works against gender-restricted parking. It’s now two for and two against.
And your post comes across as kinda angry… there's no need to be confrontational, good sir. :)

East Priapistan wrote:I'm inclined to agree with this. Nice and relevant issue, but the options aren't exactly well-balanced. Splitting the first issue into two could make it a bit more even, perhaps: there's the first part, which is "we don't want discrimination, even if it's positive discrimination" - which is a valid position to take - but since it's being combined with "screw disabled people while we're at it", the valid position is being pulled into an extreme. The options are either being pro-discrimination (valid position to take), or being an asshole, basically :lol: Nothing wrong with an option being an extreme, but the non-extreme options should balance each other out at least.
Verdant Haven wrote:I think first one would have to establish the existence of such spaces in game.

Seconded, a bit of extra information could help. Adding a "... in one of the designated female-only parking spaces, which were introduced in a high-crime neighbourhood after a number of cases of assault on women" or such.

Consider this problem… [poses dramatically] addressed. I've explained what the spaces are, using your "high-crime neighbourhood" idea… hope you don't mind. I also added an option in favour of removing the spaces, so there’re two speakers going each way. As for the thing about extreme options… one of the things I'm consciously trying to do is provide options that are all flawed in some way. Beyond avoiding any "dismiss button" options, I'm trying to make it a bit more difficult for the player to decide.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:22 am

See this suffers the same problems

Option 1. Wah, I don't want to park 2 feet away
Option 2. You're a man? Screw you!
Option 3. Let everyone park in the middle of the freeway!
Option 4. I get more parking spots than 50% of the population, wah! Wrong colour!

See the problem?

Here's what it should be
Option 1. Female parking spaces keep us safe
Option 2. Blokes also get assaulted, says male assault victim
Option 3. I get more parking spots than 50% of the population, wah! Wrong colour!
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
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Authoritaria-Imperia
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Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:46 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
See this suffers the same problems

Option 1. Wah, I don't want to park 2 feet away
Option 2. You're a man? Screw you!
Option 3. Let everyone park in the middle of the freeway!
Option 4. I get more parking spots than 50% of the population, wah! Wrong colour!

See the problem?

Here's what it should be
Option 1. Female parking spaces keep us safe
Option 2. Blokes also get assaulted, says male assault victim
Option 3. I get more parking spots than 50% of the population, wah! Wrong colour!
Thanks for the feedback, but as of yet I'm not convinced this is still a problem. I'm going to wait for some other feedback before I make a big change like redoing all the options.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:21 am

How are female-only parking spaces supposed to make anyone safer?

The other nearby parking spaces, the sidewalks near the parking space, etc. are all still legally accessible to men. If I wanted to assault someone, I would do it there. Or just trespass on the female-only parking space, because if I'm already committing assault I probably don't care to much about following the law.

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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:36 am

Trotterdam wrote:How are female-only parking spaces supposed to make anyone safer?

The other nearby parking spaces, the sidewalks near the parking space, etc. are all still legally accessible to men. If I wanted to assault someone, I would do it there. Or just trespass on the female-only parking space, because if I'm already committing assault I probably don't care to much about following the law.


The concept behind them (assuming you're asking about real world) is that by putting them close to the exit, you can provide a short, well-lit, properly surveilled route for a potentially more vulnerable demographic to get to their cars. A great deal of vulnerability comes from long walks in darkness and out of range of cameras or witnesses. Spots like these will not reduce targeted attacks, but have a strong dissuasive effect on attacks of opportunity, which many such assaults are. The perpetrators may not care about following the law, but that doesn't mean they want to get caught. They'll move on to easier targets.

Whether or not this demographic is best served by this, by some other consideration, or needs to be served at all is a separate discussion, but that's the principal at work. Some would call it considerate, some would call it paternalistic, and some will shriek that it is discrimination in and of itself. As the author and some other respondents advise us though, it apparently is a real thing in a number of places around the world.


For the author:

My feedback on the present draft would be this: why are the police involved in arresting somebody for a parking infraction at a shopping mall? The police aren't going to arrest you for incorrectly parking in an "Expectant mothers" spot or a "loading zone only" area - those aren't legally enforced. The fact that tickets can be issued (in the United States) for parking in the ADA spots is because those spots exist due to federal law.

In the case of your draft, there is no legal authority here. The mall designated a special parking zone, and at best can enforce that by calling a tow truck. This gets back to the issue of introducing this concept. Explaining why they exist (well done in the current draft) doesn't make it national law - that would have to be its own issue. I think it would be better to say that the CEO's fancy car got towed and maybe damaged, and now the windbag is trying to sue to have such spots outlawed, or something similar (work around various legal validities here - capitalism, courts, etc).
Last edited by Verdant Haven on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Australian rePublic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18845
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:52 pm

Verdant Haven wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:How are female-only parking spaces supposed to make anyone safer?

The other nearby parking spaces, the sidewalks near the parking space, etc. are all still legally accessible to men. If I wanted to assault someone, I would do it there. Or just trespass on the female-only parking space, because if I'm already committing assault I probably don't care to much about following the law.


The concept behind them (assuming you're asking about real world) is that by putting them close to the exit, you can provide a short, well-lit, properly surveilled route for a potentially more vulnerable demographic to get to their cars. A great deal of vulnerability comes from long walks in darkness and out of range of cameras or witnesses. Spots like these will not reduce targeted attacks, but have a strong dissuasive effect on attacks of opportunity, which many such assaults are. The perpetrators may not care about following the law, but that doesn't mean they want to get caught. They'll move on to easier targets.

Whether or not this demographic is best served by this, by some other consideration, or needs to be served at all is a separate discussion, but that's the principal at work. Some would call it considerate, some would call it paternalistic, and some will shriek that it is discrimination in and of itself. As the author and some other respondents advise us though, it apparently is a real thing in a number of places around the world.

I call it misandrist. And this issue is still one-sided and bias AF.

For the author:

My feedback on the present draft would be this: why are the police involved in arresting somebody for a parking infraction at a shopping mall? The police aren't going to arrest you for incorrectly parking in an "Expectant mothers" spot or a "loading zone only" area - those aren't legally enforced. The fact that tickets can be issued (in the United States) for parking in the ADA spots is because those spots exist due to federal law.

In the case of your draft, there is no legal authority here. The mall designated a special parking zone, and at best can enforce that by calling a tow truck. This gets back to the issue of introducing this concept. Explaining why they exist (well done in the current draft) doesn't make it national law - that would have to be its own issue. I think it would be better to say that the CEO's fancy car got towed and maybe damaged, and now the windbag is trying to sue to have such spots outlawed, or something similar (work around various legal validities here - capitalism, courts, etc).

Having seen my own father unjustly dragged out of a sports stadium by security guard misconduct, whilst the police came as close as they could to rolling their eyes and to appologising as they could whilst retaining their professionality and not actually admiting that the security guard was in the wrong, whilst the stadium appologised to us (my family and I) and handled the situation very well after we threatened to sue. I also have a different family member who used to work as a security guard and told me his power was quite restricted because there were too many dickhead security running around. And I know a DJ who works at night clubs and has much experience with dickhead security guards. It could have just been a dickhead security guard who abused his power.

Alternatively, the guy could have written a letter to leader to complain
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

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Eotenses
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 50
Founded: Jan 19, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Eotenses » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:13 pm

Some title ideas for your troubles. Not great, some of them seem a little unintentionally misogynistic, but I'm doing the best I can here lol
  1. Parallel Rights Parking
  2. Safe Stations for Shopping Sheilas
  3. Pink's Parking Plaza
  4. Femme Fatale Fast-lane
  5. Detour Ahead
  6. Maidens of the Meter
  7. Ladies First
  8. Vehicular Vestals (this should be the name of a motorbike gang for attack lesbians. someone make it happen)
  9. Parking for (Patty, Patricia, Penelope, Phoebe, Priscilla, Poppy...)
  10. Princess Parking
UNDER THE EMPEROR'S GRACE
Emperor | Imperial Navy | History
ANNALES IMPERII | Daitu Golden Age (呆土黃金年齡) is sending a 400-person crew out of Inhabited Space for the first time in Imperial history in nearly 5 years. They will take a 2-year journey into the depths of the Orion Spur and reaching the Perseus Transit-over 5,000ly away. | Kemetic Kingdoms of Nebteyut and Nekfu meeting with the Emperor to discuss terms of Imperial protection over their worlds following recent pirate raids and increasing crime rates.
*Please note that alien encounters or interactions cannot happen at this time and, unless specified otherwise, any interactions with other nations are not canon to our storyline.

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East Priapistan
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Dec 13, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby East Priapistan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:13 am

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:
East Priapistan wrote:I'm inclined to agree with this. Nice and relevant issue, but the options aren't exactly well-balanced. Splitting the first issue into two could make it a bit more even, perhaps: there's the first part, which is "we don't want discrimination, even if it's positive discrimination" - which is a valid position to take - but since it's being combined with "screw disabled people while we're at it", the valid position is being pulled into an extreme. The options are either being pro-discrimination (valid position to take), or being an asshole, basically :lol: Nothing wrong with an option being an extreme, but the non-extreme options should balance each other out at least.

Consider this problem… [poses dramatically] addressed. I've explained what the spaces are, using your "high-crime neighbourhood" idea… hope you don't mind. I also added an option in favour of removing the spaces, so there’re two speakers going each way. As for the thing about extreme options… one of the things I'm consciously trying to do is provide options that are all flawed in some way. Beyond avoiding any "dismiss button" options, I'm trying to make it a bit more difficult for the player to decide.


The last part is indeed better - at least the description now makes the situation clear for those who are lucky enough not to live in places where those parking spots already exist.

The options are still rather unbalanced, though; the improvement is that they are all crazy in a way. Still, some things I'm unsure of:

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:A mall in a high-crime neighbourhood recently implemented safer, female-only parking spaces in its garage, offering extra lighting and a short exit path. After rich company-CEO @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@ was arrested for using one himself, they’ve hit the headlines.

As Verdant Haven remarked, I doubt police would bother with something as minor as parking in a wrongly designated spot. Maybe something like "After rich company-CEO @@RANDOMMALEFIRSTNAME@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@'s fancy Aston Ferraghini was towed away for parking in such a spot himself, the discussion about female-only parking spots hit the headlines again" would make it more credible.

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:Option 1:
"There were no spaces left — what was I meant to do?" exclaims Mr. @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1, "I don't care if women are safer this way — this is sexist. Assault schmault — I believe that everyone should be given an equal opportunity in this country, regardless of piddly things like gender or inheritance size! Get rid of these spaces, and ditch those wheelchair-accessible ones while you're at it — if you're that disabled, you shouldn't be driving anyway!"
Effect: women often carry shields to parking garages

Still has the asshole-factor. But from what I read, this is intentional. :lol:

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:Option 2:
“For ages, parking hasn’t been going anywhere, but these new spaces will make safety a walk in the park!“ interjects black-clad @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, after rising slowly from a hiding place behind your desk, "If anything, we need MORE of them! @@LEADER@@, I believe we should mark half of all public parking — nah, 70% — as female-only. It's the best way to keep @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ women safe from those creeps hiding in the shadows!" He disappears behind your desk again.
Effect: desperate men have been known to leave their cars in the middle of the street

Not sure what you mean to say by "For ages, parking hasn’t been going anywhere", and the general message is a strange one to get from a dude in black that pops up from under your desk.

Idea for an alternative effect line: "@@DEMONYM@@ men grow massive muscly legs from walking the 17.2 kilometers to the nearest allowed parking space"

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:Option 3:
“I’m all for public safety, but we need to back up — this is an infringement on our civil rights!” points out activist @@RANDOMNAME@@, “I’m tyred of all this control — why should the government decide where people can park? And come to think of it, why does it get to regulate parking at all? Double-parking does drive me insane, but it’s not the government’s business. Give us some space with our spaces, and stay in your lane, @@LEADER@@!”
Effect: parking spots are interpreted as “suggestions”

s/tyred/tired/ :) I would simplify this one a bit, it contains some redundant parts ("why should the government decide where people can park" is basically the same as "why does it get to regulate parking at all"). Also, if double-parking drives the person insane, they wouldn't be protesting to make it worse, would they?

Authoritaria-Imperia wrote:Option 4:
"Has no one else noticed the real problem here?" asks feminist @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, scowling, "Those female spaces are PINK. Why are we indoctrinating young girls with the notion that colour is so important? You don't see regular spaces painted baby blue. Keep female-only spaces, but mark them differently, and crack down on toy colouring for young girls — THAT's where all the trouble starts. No pink, no exceptions!"
Effect: "politically correct" toys only come in brown and beige

I love crazy options. Sometimes I choose those even if the other ones make more sense.

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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 20939
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:02 am

The core premise here is strong, as evidenced by the emotional responses it has evoked.

However I'd agree that the execution is a little poor in the options, with every reasonable sounding approach adding a "gotcha" to make it less appealing.

I'd suggest trying to structure it more as:

1) reasonable approach - like "this is a good idea, let's roll it out in government-owned and public car parks to encourage it"
2) opposite but still reasonable approach - like "this is active sex discrimination, and should be treated as such under the law"
3) almost reasonable impractical approach - like "in fact, lets make all car parks divided into male and female halves, with separate entrances".
4) crazy ass funny idea.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 18845
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:52 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:The core premise here is strong, as evidenced by the emotional responses it has evoked.

However I'd agree that the execution is a little poor in the options, with every reasonable sounding approach adding a "gotcha" to make it less appealing.

I'd suggest trying to structure it more as:

1) reasonable approach - like "this is a good idea, let's roll it out in government-owned and public car parks to encourage it"
2) opposite but still reasonable approach - like "this is active sex discrimination, and should be treated as such under the law"
3) almost reasonable impractical approach - like "in fact, lets make all car parks divided into male and female halves, with separate entrances".
4) crazy ass funny idea.

Option 3 can have an effect line about newly wed couples being unable to find a parking spot. Or about women only gyms dedicating half their spots to men, or something like that
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

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