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Re: Lazy or Idiotic

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do you want your boss to believe?

Option 1 ("you're lazy")
29
67%
Option 2 ("you're stupid")
14
33%
 
Total votes : 43

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Infected Mushroom
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Re: Lazy or Idiotic

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:56 am

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are employed at a law firm, fresh out of law school (a "trainee" if we're going by British terminology).

Your employers are a bunch of bullies and the hours are long but let's assume, that for the sake of this hypothetical, you aim to please. You need this job to "work" because if it doesn't, you are going to be absolutely destroyed in the social and financial sense in every single meaning of the word.

For whatever reason, you underperform. You're tired, the work is too challenging, you're overly stressed out, and you're overall extremely unhappy and whatever support you're getting, it's not enough. However, you aim to please.

Assuming that your company has a "sink or swim" mentality and that you can't just quit because it results in you being Black Balled, you've got 2 options for this hypothetical:

Option 1: Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I'm getting the sense that you're not too overly enthusiastic about some of the work that you do. We do some really really important work here, clients depend on us. We need DEDICATED people. Now you're a smart, young woman. You made it out of law school. If you apply yourself, I have every confidence that you'll succeed. Its not a question of intelligence. I have every confidence in you."

(Translation... after processing all the corporate verbiage: "YOU DISLOYAL, LAZY, PIECE OF GARBAGE! ... APPLY YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF %$*&%($&%*(#$&*%$!" ... OR I'LL FIND MESELF ANOTHER SOLDIER GIRL!)

Option 2: Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I admire your effort. However, don't worry if it's not all coming to you yet. There's a saying: everyone is different. Some people are sponges, and the practice of the law just comes to them, CLICK, just like that. They absorb everything like a sponge does water. For you it may be different. Everyone has their pace. Rest assured when you hit your threshold, I should hope that you're every bit as effective."

(Translation... after processing all the corporate verbiage: "YOU'RE A MORON. STOP BEING A MORON!" SMARTEN UP YOU PIECE OF %$*&%($&%*(#$&*%$! OR I'LL FIND MESELF ANOTHER SOLDIER GIRL!)


As I say, you aim to please. You absolutely need this job. So which perception of you (assuming you have to choose one), do you choose?

Would you rather be considered a moron or someone who is lazy/unmotivated (assuming the reality is that you're struggling with this new lifestyle and the challenges of the profession)?

Please explain and justify.

I think Option 1 is a bit better because at least my intelligence is not knocked. I hate it when my intelligence is attacked. That's just in line with my personality. Though of course, I perfectly understand that in this hypothetical, neither Option leads to anything good. I at least want to maintain a bit of dignity on the intellectual level.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:59 am

I quit the job with no notice after the boss talks to me.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:01 am

Option 2 is preferable because it offers greater room for a conversation about the real reasons you are struggling and developing a plan that improves your performance.

I would rather deal with a patronising but broadly sympathetic assumption that is closer to the truth. It is also the less intentionally insulting of the two.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Red Roja » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:02 am

I am going to go with option 3.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:03 am

Red Roja wrote:I am going to go with option 3.


of course I fully understand that this hypothetical presents a very depressing situation
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:08 am

Well, assuming all the stipulations in the scenario (i.e. I don't tell the boss to go soak his head in a used toilet), and that I must choose one, I guess I'd go for Lazy?

Someone can stop being Lazy, so if I somehow managed to up my game and meet expectations I'll just be that one young'un who became useful when they focused themselves.

Being Stupid is harder to shake, since it would require not simply showing competence but intelligence repeatedly to lose the reputation of being a dullard.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:16 am

Why should I consider the following hypothetical?
Last edited by New haven america on Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:43 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I'm getting the sense that you're not too overly enthusiastic about some of the work that you do. We do something really really important work here, clients depend on us. We need DEDICATED people. Now you're a smart, young woman. You made it out of law school. If you apply yourself, I have every confidence that you'll succeed. Its not a question of intelligence. I have every confidence in you."

Sue her for misgendering me.

Also I choose secret option 3: achieve class consciousness and lead a revolution to overthrow them all.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:31 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I'm getting the sense that you're not too overly enthusiastic about some of the work that you do. We do something really really important work here, clients depend on us. We need DEDICATED people. Now you're a smart, young woman. You made it out of law school. If you apply yourself, I have every confidence that you'll succeed. Its not a question of intelligence. I have every confidence in you."

Sue her for misgendering me.

Also I choose secret option 3: achieve class consciousness and lead a revolution to overthrow them all.

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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 am

Albrenia wrote:Well, assuming all the stipulations in the scenario (i.e. I don't tell the boss to go soak his head in a used toilet), and that I must choose one, I guess I'd go for Lazy?

Someone can stop being Lazy, so if I somehow managed to up my game and meet expectations I'll just be that one young'un who became useful when they focused themselves.

Being Stupid is harder to shake, since it would require not simply showing competence but intelligence repeatedly to lose the reputation of being a dullard.


I suppose this makes sense
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:03 am

Option 3: Quit immediately, because I refuse to cower by calling myself either "stupid" or "lazy" for anybody; write salacious thinly-disguised fiction about the boss from hell (a la The Devil Wears Prada). Deny it's based on fact, while winking at the camera.

Heloin wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Sue her for misgendering me.

Also I choose secret option 3: achieve class consciousness and lead a revolution to overthrow them all.

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Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Gun Manufacturers
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Postby Gun Manufacturers » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:45 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are employed at a law firm, fresh out of law school (a "trainee" if we're going by British terminology).

Your employers are a bunch of bullies and the hours are long but let's assume, that for the sake of this hypothetical, you aim to please. You need this job to "work" because if it doesn't, you are going to be absolutely destroyed in the social and financial sense in every single meaning of the word.

For whatever reason, you underperform. You're tired, the work is too challenging, you're overly stressed out, and you're overall extremely unhappy and whatever support you're getting, it's not enough. However, you aim to please.

Assuming that your company has a "sink or swim" mentality and that you can't just quit because it results in you being Black Balled, you've got 2 options for this hypothetical:

Option 1: Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I'm getting the sense that you're not too overly enthusiastic about some of the work that you do. We do something really really important work here, clients depend on us. We need DEDICATED people. Now you're a smart, young woman. You made it out of law school. If you apply yourself, I have every confidence that you'll succeed. Its not a question of intelligence. I have every confidence in you."

(Translation... after processing all the corporate verbiage: "YOU DISLOYAL, LAZY, PIECE OF GARBAGE! ... APPLY YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF %$*&%($&%*(#$&*%$!" ... OR I'LL FIND MESELF ANOTHER SOLDIER GIRL!)

Option 2: Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I admire your effort. However, don't worry if it's not all coming to you yet. There's a saying: everyone is different. Some people are sponges, and the practice of the law just comes to them, CLICK, just like that. They absorb everything like a sponge does water. For you it may be different. Everyone has their pace. Rest assured when you hit your threshold, I should hope that you're every bit as effective."

(Translation... after processing all the corporate verbiage: "YOU'RE A MORON. STOP BEING A MORON!" SMARTEN UP YOU PIECE OF %$*&%($&%*(#$&*%$! OR I'LL FIND MESELF ANOTHER SOLDIER GIRL!)


As I say, you aim to please. You absolutely need this job. So which perception of you (assuming you have to choose one), do you choose?

Would you rather be considered a moron or someone who is lazy/unmotivated (assuming the reality is that you're struggling with this new lifestyle and the challenges of the profession)?

Please explain and justify.

I think Option 1 is a bit better because at least my intelligence is not knocked. I hate it when my intelligence is attacked. That's just in line with my personality. Though of course, I perfectly understand that in this hypothetical, neither Option leads to anything good. I at least want to maintain a bit of dignity on the intellectual level.


Explain that I am actually a man, and that I will redouble my efforts. Then, start my search for a new job where I will get support from a team oriented firm. Then, once I have said new job, tell my current boss, "thank you for the opportunity fresh out of law school, but I received an offer from another firm and will have to tender my 2 weeks notice".

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Postby Ifreann » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:49 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Your boss says to you (and this represents what she truly believes):

"I'm getting the sense that you're not too overly enthusiastic about some of the work that you do. We do something really really important work here, clients depend on us. We need DEDICATED people. Now you're a smart, young woman. You made it out of law school. If you apply yourself, I have every confidence that you'll succeed. Its not a question of intelligence. I have every confidence in you."

Sue her for misgendering me.

Also I choose secret option 3: achieve class consciousness and lead a revolution to overthrow them all.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:04 am

After either talk, I smile say thank you, and start looking for another job the next day.
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:13 am

Ethel mermania wrote:After either talk, I smile say thank you, and start looking for another job the next day.

I mean all jokes aside, looking for a new job is the sensible solution. Though, I do think it wouldn't be impractical to resign and try for a constructive dismissal tribunal -- due to the untenable working conditions and employers that are (to quote the OP):
Infected Mushroom wrote: a bunch of bullies

If an employer's intolerable behaviour forces the character to resign, then that could be a constructive dismissal claim. And, if the character's legal representative deems it an unwise course of action, at least they can find themselves a healthier environment to work in.

And, either way, I think writing that book -- purely fictional, of course (*wink*) -- wouldn't be a bad idea, either.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:18 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:After either talk, I smile say thank you, and start looking for another job the next day.

I mean all jokes aside, looking for a new job is the sensible solution. Though, I do think it wouldn't be impractical to resign and try for a constructive dismissal tribunal -- due to the untenable working conditions and employers that are (to quote the OP):
Infected Mushroom wrote: a bunch of bullies

If an employer's intolerable behaviour forces the character to resign, then that could be a constructive dismissal claim.

And, either way, I think writing that book -- purely fictional, of course (*wink*) -- wouldn't be a bad idea, either.


After I am out, we trash them on social media
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:20 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:I mean all jokes aside, looking for a new job is the sensible solution. Though, I do think it wouldn't be impractical to resign and try for a constructive dismissal tribunal -- due to the untenable working conditions and employers that are (to quote the OP):

If an employer's intolerable behaviour forces the character to resign, then that could be a constructive dismissal claim.

And, either way, I think writing that book -- purely fictional, of course (*wink*) -- wouldn't be a bad idea, either.


After I am out, we trash them on social media

Don't forget to use a VPN. :p
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:28 am

Option 2. It's not wrong, and they're not insulting my character. Also, following this conversation, I would actually try to work harder.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:07 am

Geneviev wrote:Option 2. It's not wrong, and they're not insulting my character. Also, following this conversation, I would actually try to work harder.


I see. You're such a good employee! =)

More power to you!

...

Btw I should hope no one ever has the misfortune of hearing both statements at a single job
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Iwassoclose » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:11 am

as a newly minted lawyer, i save on filing a civil case

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:23 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Option 2 is preferable because it offers greater room for a conversation about the real reasons you are struggling and developing a plan that improves your performance.

I would rather deal with a patronising but broadly sympathetic assumption that is closer to the truth. It is also the less intentionally insulting of the two.


I see.

So you're saying, "if you're seen as stupid, then the company should think about helping you improve and learn despite the deficit" but "if you're seen as lazy, then your very loyalty to the company is put into question"?

is that right?
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:33 am

Ifreann wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Sue her for misgendering me.

Also I choose secret option 3: achieve class consciousness and lead a revolution to overthrow them all.

Burn the building down unless they return your red Swingline stapler.

Include its return in the lawsuit.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:38 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
After I am out, we trash them on social media

Don't forget to use a VPN. :p

I am a lawyer, I am looking for an excuse to sue them, if they say anything hindering future income is a good one
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Albennia
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Postby Albennia » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:41 am

Option 1, but I am not a woman and in fact I probably am being lazy
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:46 am

Albennia wrote:Option 1, but I am not a woman and in fact I probably am being lazy


Fair enough

Out of curiosity, would you consider a job in law irl?
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