NATION

PASSWORD

[DEFEATED] Liberate The Union of the Axis Powers

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
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Praeceps
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[DEFEATED] Liberate The Union of the Axis Powers

Postby Praeceps » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:41 pm

This resolution has been submitted—the lack of drafting on the forum is to limit the potential for the region and other fascist organizations to react. I consulted with a number of individuals prior to submission.

The Security Council,

Nauseated by the continued presence of fascists in the world,

Repulsed that The Union of the Axis Powers openly claims itself to be fascist,

Deriding their support for other fascist organizations,

Cognizant of their relationship with a region which miserably failed to coup The North Pacific,

Aware the region is currently founderless and only protected by a password,

Working to ensure this region is destroyed as soon as possible,

Hereby liberates The Union of the Axis Powers.


As I mentioned that this region has associated themselves with despicable organizations here are a number of the organizations they have wrongly associated themselves with:

1. Demonstrating support for the Interregional Axis through pinning their dispatch to their WFE.
2. Formerly embassied to the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators. A region which has been shown to have been involved in discussions regarding doxxing a NationStates moderator and has recently fully publicly embraced fascism.
3. Embassied to the Union of Nationalists: a region which holds third positionists regions as protectorates.
4. Embassied to the Fifth Empire: a self-proclaimed fascist region.
5. Embassied to The Union of National Socialists: a region owning territories explicitly described as fascist. Their name is National Socialists.
6. Embassied to National Socialist Ministries: a region which describes itself as trying to spread National Socialism.
7. Embassied to Nazi Europa: a region pre-emptively liberated for fascism. Explicitly dedicated to National Socialism and fascism.
8. Embassied to The Coalition of Fascist Nations: a region once again working to spread fascism.

This list was made by looking at the first 16 embassies that the region holds. They have a further 32 embassies. It is utterly ridiculous that regions like this continue to maintain a presence on this site. I have not mentioned any other fascist regions by name to avoid giving them any undue attention that they are so desparate for.

I would appreciate your support in bringing this resolution to quorum, passing it, and then bringing about the region's destruction.
Last edited by Sedgistan on Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Draganisia
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Postby Draganisia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:31 pm

Is full on fascism just as bad as full on communism? Yes.

Having said that before I choose whether or not to support this please answer a question I have about them.

Have they ever raided or do you have evidence that they were planning to raid other peaceful regions regardless of ideologies?

As I read it the proposal seemed more like an attempt to get the WA to sanction a Raid on an otherwise potentially peaceful region (fascist or not).

So as a supporter of Defenders I cannot in good conscience support this unless I know that they have raided or were planning to raid others.
Last edited by Draganisia on Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:51 pm

Draganisia wrote:Is full on fascism just as bad as full on communism? Yes.

Having said that before I choose whether or not to support this please answer a question I have about them.

Have they ever raided or do you have evidence that they were planning to raid other peaceful regions regardless of ideologies?

As I read it the proposal seemed more like an attempt to get the WA to sanction a Raid on an otherwise potentially peaceful region (fascist or not).

So as a supporter of Defenders I cannot in good conscience support this unless I know that they have raided or were planning to raid others.

Thanks for the interest. I should note that the reason I am proposing this liberation is because the region is fascist—not because of them planning to raid other regions and/or raiding.

To answer your question, yes, they were planning to raid other regions without specifying ideology. Within the first week of the region being founded, the founder mentions thinking about an invasion. They include Belgium and Japan as potential targets.
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Draganisia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Draganisia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:01 pm

Hmm...Ok that is a fair answer. Thank you for being honest.

For now I can at least support putting it up for a vote.

But will have to think about it more before deciding to go for it or against it in the end.
Last edited by Draganisia on Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Free Santa Rosa
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Postby Free Santa Rosa » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:16 am

There doesn't seem to be much of an issue in getting this approved for a vote. That said, I am here to pledge full support of this. Fascism must be stopped dead in its tracks. In this regard all tactics are valid.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:02 am

This is now [AT VOTE] until minor update on Wednesday. I have casted the first vote, and have done so IN FAVOUR of this resolution.

AS OF 1659 GMT ON SATURDAY: Approvals: 76 out of 71 needed (McMasterdonia, Tinhampton, Cormactopia Prime, Bagstrom, Depeche Mode To Joy, Ukraniumstan, Great internationalism, North East Somerset, Imperium Anglorum, Razor Queendom, Lushansk, Harmonic Empire, Xukong, Comackia, Sulavia, Ivycactopia, The Chuck, Portals, Marrabuk, The Newest of Virginia, Zicona, Draganisia, Nouvelle Maison, Carstantinopipal, Karovech, One Small Island, The Liberal Fascist Union of Fronk, Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium, Bran Astor, Saint Arsenio, Technocratic Founder, Pazifische, SFR Philippines, United Island States of Southeast Asia, East Durthang, United Calanworie, Aumeltopia, Peoples Sane Holy Empire, Cyndorr, Jew Man, Kaystein, Jean Rowe, Juhania, St Stephen n Critters, Veryina, United Euterpe, Baobab-Bumbaria, OGANESUIM, Ladiass, Legolannd, The Waffleonian Reich, Shineon, Santo Stefano in Campana, United England N Wales, South Krimelski, Purimgell Hawkwiteri, Engales, Cannula, Sanderton, Notty Swaras, Aynia Moreaux, Dekks, GoodKingWenceslas, Nationalist Byzantine Empire, Tzedeck, FireFox15, Llorens, The Flyin, Brutica, Free Santa Rosa, Shauntopia, The Crown in Right of Canada, URCD, Rakscovia, Adachi, San Lumen)
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The Stalker
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Postby The Stalker » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:13 am

Support.
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Barometria
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Postby Barometria » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:37 am

This will be an interesting issue for Barometrian voters, not as cut and dry as one might think. Certainly, Barometria would have attempted to prevent any hostile takeover of a Region in the first place and conducts diplomatic affairs to curtail (what little) spread of Fascism remains in the world.

However, that being said, a Region successfully invaded becomes the region of any Nations who might choose to be so aligned. The Founding Nation is gone and the current WA Delegate for the Region assumed that position 300 days...THAT'S 300 DAYS AGO.

Arguably, the Region has become their Region now. More than that, the Founder disappeared completely and, prior to doing so, did not have the foresight to restrict the WA Delegate's powers within the Region itself. If you go back and read through their history, it looks like they left themselves open to invasion in just about every way possible.

Also, the Nations that exist within that Region seem largely content, at this time, to basically leave the rest of the world alone, excepting like-minded folks. It seems that nations very rarely join the Region, those who are there basically never leave and there are no comings or goings that would suggest that they attempt militaristic actions against other Regions.

There is definitely a time for force, and Barometrians are not afraid to use force at the appropriate times, but this Region being proposed for, "Liberation," according to the proposer's own words, is actually to be destroyed. Further, this destruction is motivated only by the Region's political beliefs.

In other words, it seems like an attempt to forcibly dictate to Regions what they may or may not believe, sounds kind of...Fascist?

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Tarnik
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Postby Tarnik » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:49 am

Tarnik is new to the global stage but this vote is dangerous. We are voting to force a region to bend to the World Assembly's will, a region that has been content to so far keep to themselves. Their form of government is theirs alone and forcibly spreading our ideology is the exact thing we are supposedly condemning them for. Not to mention this resolution is poorly written and shows an obvious McCarthyism like bias.

The Security Council is ultimately a good thing but they are meddling in affairs where they do not belong. I am sure there are more pressing matters to attend to aside from "This region utilizes a system of government that we do not like." I hate to stand in support of fascism but until this is addressed in a more proper manner I must vote in favor of their way of life.

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Boscaza
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Postby Boscaza » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:53 am

The Boscazan people recognize the threat of communism all too well... Great societies brought to their knees by themselves and their leaders, forced to rebuild again and again... Each time, the cry of "This one last time, for true socialism!" before once again charging into the fields of famine and decay.
Never again will that be allowed near us or our regions.
Very much against.


also "fAscIsM bAD" lol
Last edited by Boscaza on Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Maraculand
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Postby Maraculand » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:53 am

Maraculand will not support this proposal. First of all the wording is unprofessional and not befitting the World Assembly.
Nauseated by different political beliefs? Perhaps we should express our concern with those beliefs being a force of evil in the world.
Second, Maraculand fundamentally disagrees with the idea of punishing regions and nations for political beliefs. Shall we punish communist regions as well?

If the proposal is resubmitted differently, we shall reconsider it at that time.

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:59 am

Hmm. I expressed my concerns to Praetor earlier, but they aren't a terribly bug deal, so support.
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The Gilded Star
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Gilded Star » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:06 am

Depending on how this vote goes, we may see how this IRX alliance plays out. Can't imagine it'll be good for their morale if their first conflict is a crushing defeat.

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Tarnik
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Postby Tarnik » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:10 am

Praeceps wrote:This resolution has been submitted—the lack of drafting on the forum is to limit the potential for the region and other fascist organizations to react. I consulted with a number of individuals prior to submission.

The Security Council,

Nauseated by the continued presence of fascists in the world,

Repulsed that The Union of the Axis Powers openly claims itself to be fascist,

Deriding their support for other fascist organizations,

Cognizant of their relationship with a region which miserably failed to coup The North Pacific,

Aware the region is currently founderless and only protected by a password,

Working to ensure this region is destroyed as soon as possible,

Hereby liberates The Union of the Axis Powers.


As I mentioned that this region has associated themselves with despicable organizations here are a number of the organizations they have wrongly associated themselves with:

1. Demonstrating support for the Interregional Axis through pinning their dispatch to their WFE.
2. Formerly embassied to the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators. A region which has been shown to have been involved in discussions regarding doxxing a NationStates moderator and has recently fully publicly embraced fascism.
3. Embassied to the Union of Nationalists: a region which holds third positionists regions as protectorates.
4. Embassied to the Fifth Empire: a self-proclaimed fascist region.
5. Embassied to The Union of National Socialists: a region owning territories explicitly described as fascist. Their name is National Socialists.
6. Embassied to National Socialist Ministries: a region which describes itself as trying to spread National Socialism.
7. Embassied to Nazi Europa: a region pre-emptively liberated for fascism. Explicitly dedicated to National Socialism and fascism.
8. Embassied to The Coalition of Fascist Nations: a region once again working to spread fascism.

This list was made by looking at the first 16 embassies that the region holds. They have a further 32 embassies. It is utterly ridiculous that regions like this continue to maintain a presence on this site. I have not mentioned any other fascist regions by name to avoid giving them any undue attention that they are so desparate for.

I would appreciate your support in bringing this resolution to quorum, passing it, and then bringing about the region's destruction.


What they have done is despicable but what you're proposing is the forcing open and "liberation" of a region that is quite happy with itself. This is a heavy handed approach and will have negative consequences. Forcing ourselves upon them is the very thing we are attacking them for and I feel like this is in direct violation of Article 1 in the Principle of National Sovereignty.

The writing alone of this legislation shows that passion was in control here. I appreciate the intent but this is the wrong way to do it. Attacking their way of life like this will only make them bolder and more prone to drastic action.

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Lothric-
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Postby Lothric- » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:16 am

even though they're dumb fascists who are against communism, there is legit only 13 nations in this region. what a stupid waste of time lol, maybe present somethingnmeaningful

plus even if y'all do raid the region, theyll just make another one, or even worse, head to a new one and start spreading their ideology. The way of handling this is honestly retarded and anybody who votes For this obviously has no common sense
Last edited by Lothric- on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:22 am

Excellent, full support.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:26 am

Against. While I may not be opposed to it in principle, I don't like it as it's currently written. In offensive liberations, I'd like some sort of distinction between the target and any other fascist region- whether it's obvious from the region page or not.

E.g.

[Fascist region] was once at the fore-front of fascism in NationStates, having over 100 nations.

[Fascist region] provided significant aid in defending [fascist region #2] from raids

[Fascist region] is currently recruiting
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:37 am

Tinhampton wrote:This is now [AT VOTE] until minor update on Wednesday. I have casted the first vote, and have done so IN FAVOUR of this resolution.

AS OF 1659 GMT ON SATURDAY: Approvals: 76 out of 71 needed (McMasterdonia, Tinhampton, Cormactopia Prime, Bagstrom, Depeche Mode To Joy, Ukraniumstan, Great internationalism, North East Somerset, Imperium Anglorum, Razor Queendom, Lushansk, Harmonic Empire, Xukong, Comackia, Sulavia, Ivycactopia, The Chuck, Portals, Marrabuk, The Newest of Virginia, Zicona, Draganisia, Nouvelle Maison, Carstantinopipal, Karovech, One Small Island, The Liberal Fascist Union of Fronk, Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium, Bran Astor, Saint Arsenio, Technocratic Founder, Pazifische, SFR Philippines, United Island States of Southeast Asia, East Durthang, United Calanworie, Aumeltopia, Peoples Sane Holy Empire, Cyndorr, Jew Man, Kaystein, Jean Rowe, Juhania, St Stephen n Critters, Veryina, United Euterpe, Baobab-Bumbaria, OGANESUIM, Ladiass, Legolannd, The Waffleonian Reich, Shineon, Santo Stefano in Campana, United England N Wales, South Krimelski, Purimgell Hawkwiteri, Engales, Cannula, Sanderton, Notty Swaras, Aynia Moreaux, Dekks, GoodKingWenceslas, Nationalist Byzantine Empire, Tzedeck, FireFox15, Llorens, The Flyin, Brutica, Free Santa Rosa, Shauntopia, The Crown in Right of Canada, URCD, Rakscovia, Adachi, San Lumen)

Very much appreciated that you grabbed the list of who approved it or not. I did not expect it to make it to quorum so quickly.

Barometria wrote:...

I think you may have misunderstood parts of the region. This region was founded as a fascist region. It was not invaded yet. We are wanting to invade it.

Additionally, I am not attempting to dictate to regions what they may or may not believe. You can believe what you want. However, if you are a fascist regions you may expect consequences to that decision.

Tarnik wrote:First Quote

This region has not just been keeping to themselves. As mentioned earlier, they were discussing raiding other regions. We are not forcibly spreading our ideology. I am not promoting any ideology, we are just preventing fascism as an ideology.

The Security Council has a long history of anti-fascism, if it seems like it is bias that is because it is bias. I do not see any more pressing matters of business for the Security Council to attend to. Would you be so kind as to point out any? I expressly waited for the queue to be clear before proposing this resolution.

Tarnik wrote:Part 2

It is precisely because what they have done is despicable that I am proposing this resolution. What negative consequences will this have? What is the Priniciple of National Sovereignty? I know of no such thing that applies to the Security Council.

Boscaza wrote:...

This resolution isn't communist...

Maraculand wrote:...

The Security Council takes stances on issues. That is what it does. It states whether a nation/region's actions are commendable/condemnable or will state that they believe/do not believe that a region should be liberated to permit/prevent destruction.

Lothric- wrote:...
As I mentioned earlier, I waited for an empty queue prior to submission. There are no other resolutions behind it. As such, the argument that this is a waste of time does not make sense. If you have any ideas for something more meaningful than this, you are welcome to present it to the Security Council.

Typically fascists tend to have to move regions when they go founderless, however, in doing so, they tend to lose nations and become smaller. This region we are liberating is the successor to another fascist region and was much more active a couple of years ago.

Bormiar wrote:...

Anything which may be positively attributed to fascist regions should be kept out of resolutions.

Lastly, thank you to Free Santa Rosa, The Stalker, Lord Dominator, The Gilded Star, Bhang Bhang Duc for expressing your support. As well, as all of the Delegates and nations for voting For this resolution.
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Barometria
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Founded: Aug 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Barometria » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:52 am

Praeceps wrote:I think you may have misunderstood parts of the region. This region was founded as a fascist region. It was not invaded yet. We are wanting to invade it.

Additionally, I am not attempting to dictate to regions what they may or may not believe. You can believe what you want. However, if you are a fascist regions you may expect consequences to that decision.


Why would we take militaristic action against a non-aggressor? Also, how is the second part of what is quoted above not a contradiction? The oppressed peoples in the countries of that Region can arguably believe what they want, just that there will be consequences if they express those beliefs.

This region has not just been keeping to themselves. As mentioned earlier, they were discussing raiding other regions. We are not forcibly spreading our ideology. I am not promoting any ideology, we are just preventing fascism as an ideology.


There is absolutely no evidence that demonstrates the discussion was anymore than just that. Does the WA also propose to control what Regions may discuss amongst themselves?

This resolution isn't communist...


Quite right. Oppressing people by force due to their political beliefs and destroying them is Fascist.

The Security Council takes stances on issues. That is what it does. It states whether a nation/region's actions are commendable/condemnable or will state that they believe/do not believe that a region should be liberated to permit/prevent destruction.


Barometria would almost certainly not be opposed to a condemnation of the Region.

Typically fascists tend to have to move regions when they go founderless, however, in doing so, they tend to lose nations and become smaller. This region we are liberating is the successor to another fascist region and was much more active a couple of years ago.


How is removing the freedom of their Regional political process, "Liberation?" You got the word right in your first address on the subject, we intend to, "Destroy," the region, not Liberate it.
Last edited by Barometria on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Tarnik
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tarnik » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:03 pm

Praeceps wrote:This region has not just been keeping to themselves. As mentioned earlier, they were discussing raiding other regions. We are not forcibly spreading our ideology. I am not promoting any ideology, we are just preventing fascism as an ideology.

The Security Council has a long history of anti-fascism, if it seems like it is bias that is because it is bias. I do not see any more pressing matters of business for the Security Council to attend to. Would you be so kind as to point out any? I expressly waited for the queue to be clear before proposing this resolution.

It is precisely because what they have done is despicable that I am proposing this resolution. What negative consequences will this have? What is the Priniciple of National Sovereignty? I know of no such thing that applies to the Security Council.


You're...not aware of what the Principles of National Sovereignty are? It's only part of the second resolution passed by the World Assembly, which lays out the rights, responsibilities, and duties of member nations. It seems we're more about carrying out our personal interests instead of upholding what the World Assembly and its associated Security Council is about. As a refresher, I will link you. https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_past_resolution/id=2/council=1.

Also, they were discussing raiding, which is surely not a crime. Punishing people for mere discussion or hypotheticals is something more in line with a fascist government, is it not? Can you preemptively punish someone before the crime has been committed? And using the Security Council to actively hunt down and stamp out governments you don't agree with is ideological genocide. Openly admitting you target fascist regions and nations is dangerous. Replace the word 'fascist' in your statements with 'republics' or 'monarchies' and the red flags become a little clearer.

But you want to raid a region of 13 nations because their goose step isn't your kind of goose step. What's to stop them from reforming another region or seeding in to and corrupting others with their ideas? You're going to stamp out an anthill and find your leg covered in ants. I thought the World Assembly was more responsible than this and I am disillusioned that it would overwhelmingly pass such a poorly written and misguided resolution that its clear bias has actually managed to garner sympathy for those that it targets.
Last edited by Tarnik on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:04 pm

Praeceps wrote:
Bormiar wrote:...

Anything which may be positively attributed to fascist regions should be kept out of resolutions.

Just rephrase it then.

[Fascist region] is currently recruiting

If this is too positive for you, then:
Recognizing [Fascist region]'s futile indoctrination schemes, which consist of sending propagandized telegrams to new nations

You could even say "harassed" instead of "send".




[Fascist region] provided significant aid in defending [fascist region #2] from raids


becomes:

[Fascist region] attempted to prevent nations from liberating [fascist region #2] from its fascist government





[Fascist region] was once at the fore-front of fascism in NationStates, having over 100 nations.

Just ditch the "fore-front" terminology and say:
[Fascist region] once had 100 nations that stupidly endorsed fascism

or something like that.
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Roost1513
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Founded: Jan 18, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Roost1513 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:07 pm

Reasons why I am against, even though this is a fascist nation:
1) Wording is unprofessional and clearly biased
2) Nation is currently non-aggressive. Even though they may become aggressive in the future, we're the aggressors in this situation (too heavy-handed an approach - do a condemnation)
3) Too discriminatory - sets a poor precedent. This is becoming more of a 'tyranny of the majority'.
Last edited by Roost1513 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Borovan entered the region as he
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Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:14 pm

Ooc: the writing could use more spectacular color and depth. It's not as impressive as Kuriko's proposals when she usually writes it. OOC Against.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:32 pm

Tarnik wrote:
You're...not aware of what the Principles of National Sovereignty are? It's only part of the second resolution passed by the World Assembly, which lays out the rights, responsibilities, and duties of member nations. It seems we're more about carrying out our personal interests instead of upholding what the World Assembly and its associated Security Council is about. As a refresher, I will link you. https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_past_resolution/id=2/council=1.

GA resolutions are meaningless to the SC and no one really cares about the regional sovereignty of fascists anyways
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Barometria
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Founded: Aug 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Barometria » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:43 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:GA resolutions are meaningless to the SC and no one really cares about the regional sovereignty of fascists anyways


I imagine Fascists make the same, "Nobody cares," argument about those whom they oppress.

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