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[Draft] Commend Twobagger

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Jakker City
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[Draft] Commend Twobagger

Postby Jakker City » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:07 pm

Here is a nation that I think has done a lot of good and often behind the scenes. I feel like they deserve recognition. I have made several edits to make this draft as best as possible.

The Security Council,

Affirming Twobagger as a nation that has spent years prioritizing values of community and region-building through their involvement with regions such as 10000 Islands,

Highlighting that records of the nominee's achievements are not publicly accessible and hoping that this proposal can serve to document several of their past efforts for future generations,

Applauding Twobagger’s 300+ noble actions of defenses and liberations for regions in dire need including:
  • Contributed in the refounding of The Skeleton Army in 2012, a region that has been commended by this body;
  • Assisted in the organization of the resistance movement to bring Great Bights Mum back to the delegacy of The North Pacific in 2008 after the government was couped by Lewis and Clark;
  • Led 10000 Islands troops as a Tactical Officer in the overtaking of The Iron Confederacy in 2019, a region that promoted fascist ideals;
  • Coordinated troops of 10000 Islands to defend Philippines and participated in the siege of Anontia in 2019;
  • Helped to ensure that The East Pacific went back to rightful members of the community after it dealt with a government coup in 2019;
  • Served as a role model for defending activity for many months in 2019 which inspired other nations to participate and led to Twobagger being recognized as the best nation for defense participation that year;
Praising the nominee’s tireless efforts to strengthen military operations in 10000 Islands and across defending including:
  • Oversaw the tactical officer transition of THX1138 as well as assisted in the officer training of Mingulay Isle,
  • Designed technology that detected and stopped several foreign threats attempting to overtake a region;
  • Developed the military tactic for defenders to change delegacies of raiding nations during foreign occupations to reduce the pace that additional regional officers could eject nations;
Acknowledging many of the initiatives by the nominee to build community within the region and with allies such as:
  • Served as a senator for five terms and wrote a proposal to ensure that members of 10000 Islands' government received salaries in the form of the regional currency which served as a foundation for the Wage Reform Act, as well as a proposal that inspired the Chief Executive to make government voting records public information;
  • Participated in several recruitment events like "Team Battles" to help the region grow in population, including the recruitment of future Senator Isles of Nixon as well as a future XKI Knight, at a time when automated efforts to recruit nations did not exist;
  • Engaged in multiple leadership initiatives for community integration including Mayor of Taco Island, which involved facilitating games and activities to bring nations together and Spokesperson for the Mayor Shelter Political Party, which included encouraging other nations to engage in regional politics;
  • Received recognition for all of these actions by the leader of Commended nation and Chief Executive of 10000 Islands, Markanite, as “going above and beyond to look after others,”;
Recognizing the nominee’s authorship of an essay that detailed their change in regional alliances and outlines considerations that a nation should make when faced with such difficult decisions,

Declaring that this nominee has showcased dedication to building regional communities over many years and has served as a valuable resource in navigating the challenge of changing alliances,

Hereby Commends Twobagger.
Last edited by Jakker City on Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:20 am, edited 34 times in total.

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:26 pm

Can't get behind this with that lie about Osiris in it tbh.
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:28 pm

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Can't get behind this with that lie about Osiris in it tbh.


What specifically are you referring to? Are you saying that how Osiris' delegacy was handled was wrong in your eyes?

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Postby Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:29 pm

I'd provide feedback but I doubt it'd garner a response just as I was ignored the last time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:32 pm

I spoke further to madjack and have removed that point at this time.

Praeceps wrote:I'd provide feedback but I doubt it'd garner a response just as I was ignored the last time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I'll make sure to respond directly to you this time.

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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:33 pm

Amazing concept, may have comments later
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Postby Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:34 pm

Jakker City wrote:I spoke further to madjack and have removed that point at this time.

Praeceps wrote:I'd provide feedback but I doubt it'd garner a response just as I was ignored the last time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I'll make sure to respond directly to you this time.

Appreciated. For starters, might I recommend ending each phrase of the list with some punctuation? Perhaps a semi-colon.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:55 pm

Praeceps wrote:
Jakker City wrote:I spoke further to madjack and have removed that point at this time.



I'll make sure to respond directly to you this time.

Appreciated. For starters, might I recommend ending each phrase of the list with some punctuation? Perhaps a semi-colon.


Done and done.

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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:59 am

Edits appreciated.
Jakker City wrote:Acknowledging that this nominee has showcased these values for over a decade through several noble actions of defenses and liberations of regions in dire need including:

Would you potentially have a number to add onto this to demonstrate the scale of the individual's contributions in defences/liberations?

Acclaiming the nation's advances in building technology to detect foreign threats attempting to overtake a region,

I understand that to remain rule compliant you may be unable to specify what it was they did but for curiosity/historical record sake, what tools did Twobagger developed?
Affirming that due to these years of leadership, this nominee has won numerous notable awards for being one of the best at at defending other regions,

This isn't exactly a deal-breaker for me but I'm not really a fan of listing receiving awards for a reason to receive a commendation. Reminds me of that Obama meme.

Noting that Twobagger has recently decided to change regional alliances to pursue innovative military policies in an attempt to modernize,

Further noting that after this shift towards progress and further innovation, Twobagger was vilified by 10000 Islands and disowned due to the region's extreme views,

Praising this nominee for accepting these consequences with grace and not reducing their own values of integrity to match this poor treatment,

Declaring that nations who prioritize the pursuit of happiness and the progression of ideals should be rewarded, especially when handled with such maturity,

Hereby Commends Twobagger.
Alright, I'm somewhat aware of what happened but can you provide the full context behind these handfuls of clauses? :eyebrow:

I don't see any further spelling/grammar edits. I do notice that in posting your threads, you tend not to provide additional context outside of what is in your drafts. It tends to be helpful if you can provide more information which can be difficult to work into a draft to help understand whether the nominee is deserving of commendation/condemnation.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:22 am

I've read through the proposal and Praeceps' critique of it. Pretty much sums up any comments I may have had. Tending to "For", but a few more background details would be appreciated.
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RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Marxist Germany
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Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:25 am

OOC: Raiding is not "progress and innovation", against.
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:11 am

I added more specifics as to the number of defenses/liberations. As for the awards, I can get that. I think something is to be said when nation peers believe someone to be so awesome that they warrant such recognition.

To answer Praeceps and BBD's questions, I believe that Twobagger should be commended for their years of service towards supporting regions in need as well as how well they approached switching. Twobagger recently decided to no longer be a defender and switch. This is a tough transition for anyone to go through, especially one who has dedicate so long to one side. They resigned from their positions and provided some time before fully switching. Once the switch was publically announced, 10,000 Islands banned the nominee and stripped them of their military record. While I don't fully agree with all of that, I get that. What I find troubling is how the XKI community has worked to vilify Twobagger both in the initial announcement and after the fact for doing this. As someone who has experienced friends and close allies switch sides, I get that it is not fun. With that said, I am sadden with how Twobagger has been treated by them. Furthermore, even with this treatment, Twobagger handled the situation very respectfully and I can say has actively tried to do this with as little impact on 10,000 Islands as possible including not revealing military details and trying to stay under the radar.

I think that this nation has been under the radar for too long and deserves to be recognized. I think the story conveys their commitment to integrity. We should promote and encourage nations who pursue happiness for themselves. I wanted to be mindful of my language in the proposal to reflect all of this. I intentionally did not use any direct language to convey the side in which Twobagger switched to make sure it did not appear as any type of advertisement or promotion. I used language like progress and innovation because I thought those would be two reasonable reasons why a nation would change alliances.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:32 am

For the record, we haven't been "working to vilify" Twobagger at all, so I'd like to ask you to provide evidence for your claims. If it's happening somewhere I can't see it I'd like to at least know. Most XKI members have kept our anger and sadness inside about Twobagger becoming a Black Hawk member, and haven't expressed ourselves anywhere outside of XKI.
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McMasterdonia
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Postby McMasterdonia » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:35 am

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Raiding is not "progress and innovation", against.

I assumed progress and innovation was referring to concepts like switching WA nations during update, instead of just using one fixed WA nation.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:40 am

Feedback appreciated, thanks Jakker.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:21 am

Kuriko wrote:For the record, we haven't been "working to vilify" Twobagger at all, so I'd like to ask you to provide evidence for your claims. If it's happening somewhere I can't see it I'd like to at least know. Most XKI members have kept our anger and sadness inside about Twobagger becoming a Black Hawk member, and haven't expressed ourselves anywhere outside of XKI.


I did not say that the vilification was all done publicly. I use this definition, "to vilify is to talk about or admonish someone in a way that's ruthlessly caustic and often slanderous or exaggerated. While it is possible to fairly criticize people while remaining positive overall, to vilify is to be uncompromisingly negative, and maybe even abusive or hateful."

Examples from XKI's forum post about Twobagger being banned from the region:

"It makes every compliment Twobagger ever gave me and every moment of connection I thought we had ring hollow given the ease of his decision to turn his back on all of that."

"He told me I was a great defender and I really liked him as TO. It all just feels cheap now. I even backed him and Hame during the Defender awards. It's just really crappy."

Both of those comments were made from members of the region's government.

And then, Hakketomat, a member of TITO Command, went after Twobagger in the Rejected Realms discord server; referring to him as "by definition a piece of shit."

And those are just the comments that I am aware of. Seems to fit the definition.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:21 am

Jakker City wrote:I added more specifics as to the number of defenses/liberations. As for the awards, I can get that. I think something is to be said when nation peers believe someone to be so awesome that they warrant such recognition.

To answer Praeceps and BBD's questions, I believe that Twobagger should be commended for their years of service towards supporting regions in need as well as how well they approached switching. Twobagger recently decided to no longer be a defender and switch. This is a tough transition for anyone to go through, especially one who has dedicate so long to one side. They resigned from their positions and provided some time before fully switching. Once the switch was publically announced, 10,000 Islands banned the nominee and stripped them of their military record. While I don't fully agree with all of that, I get that. What I find troubling is how the XKI community has worked to vilify Twobagger both in the initial announcement and after the fact for doing this. As someone who has experienced friends and close allies switch sides, I get that it is not fun. With that said, I am sadden with how Twobagger has been treated by them. Furthermore, even with this treatment, Twobagger handled the situation very respectfully and I can say has actively tried to do this with as little impact on 10,000 Islands as possible including not revealing military details and trying to stay under the radar.

I think that this nation has been under the radar for too long and deserves to be recognized. I think the story conveys their commitment to integrity. We should promote and encourage nations who pursue happiness for themselves. I wanted to be mindful of my language in the proposal to reflect all of this. I intentionally did not use any direct language to convey the side in which Twobagger switched to make sure it did not appear as any type of advertisement or promotion. I used language like progress and innovation because I thought those would be two reasonable reasons why a nation would change alliances.
It has come to my attention that Twobagger joined TBH in November under the name Julian. I would like to point out that, in November, Twobagger was still a member of TITO Command and did this without telling anyone. Twobagger resigned from TITO command and TITO itself in early December, after having started as Julian in TBH and gave his reasons for resigning to be IRL reasons.

Furthermore, you can imagine how upset people were when all but three XKI members had to find out with a public announcement on the NS forums. The day of that announcement, January 11th, was the same day that Twobagger approached me and two other XKI leaders to inform us that he had switched sides. He didn't privately inform anyone else in XKI of what was coming, and of course there are a lot of hurt feelings surrounding the way it was handled.

Twobagger was even allowed, trustingly, into the update planning channel while he was involved in a raid by the Black Hawks because nobody was aware of his new affiliations. I would also like to point out that Twobagger was 100% fully aware of what would happen on our end, since he was a long time member of our community and according to Kanta Hame (our FC) one of the very people who set up our policy about raiders being in our community. I will be personally abstaining from this vote, but I want to clear the air up and would like to ask that the vilification clause be removed.
Last edited by Kuriko on Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:28 am

Jakker City wrote:
Kuriko wrote:For the record, we haven't been "working to vilify" Twobagger at all, so I'd like to ask you to provide evidence for your claims. If it's happening somewhere I can't see it I'd like to at least know. Most XKI members have kept our anger and sadness inside about Twobagger becoming a Black Hawk member, and haven't expressed ourselves anywhere outside of XKI.


I did not say that the vilification was all done publicly. I use this definition, "to vilify is to talk about or admonish someone in a way that's ruthlessly caustic and often slanderous or exaggerated. While it is possible to fairly criticize people while remaining positive overall, to vilify is to be uncompromisingly negative, and maybe even abusive or hateful."

Examples from XKI's forum post about Twobagger being banned from the region:

"It makes every compliment Twobagger ever gave me and every moment of connection I thought we had ring hollow given the ease of his decision to turn his back on all of that."

"He told me I was a great defender and I really liked him as TO. It all just feels cheap now. I even backed him and Hame during the Defender awards. It's just really crappy."

Both of those comments were made from members of the region's government.

And then, Hakketomat, a member of TITO Command, went after Twobagger in the Rejected Realms discord server; referring to him as "by definition a piece of shit."

And those are just the comments that I am aware of. Seems to fit the definition.

Like I said, you can imagine emotions were running high when people were lied to for two or three months before publicly finding out that he switched sides on the NS forum. Sargon was hurt because he thought Twobagger held to the same ideals as all the rest of us, that raiding is not something to take lightly and that defense of natives is virtuous and good. Hakketomat felt betrayed due to the way this came to light and because of how Twobagger revealed his switching sides, something I'm all sure we're aware happens from time to time when people are hurt.

And I find it odd that you're using this as vilification, especially after the way TBH and others treated Nakari when she switched to defending. I remember that some really mean, choice words were said about her that can't and won't be repeated here on this forum. I think we've handled Twobaggers switch very well considering how it all went down.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:30 am

Kuriko wrote:I will be personally abstaining from this vote, but I want to clear the air up and would like to ask that the vilification clause be removed.

Why would the vilification clause be removed? Jakker has provided specific examples of vilification, and the comment made by Hakketomat certainly fits the definition of vilification. All the comments do, to be honest, but that one in particular is unquestionably vilification. So why on earth would anyone remove that clause, except that you don't want these acts of vilification publicly acknowledged? There's literally no other reason to remove it.

Here's a thought, next time if you don't want 10000 Islanders called out for vilifying someone, perhaps they should refrain from doing it.

Full support from me for this proposal, and congratulations to Twobagger for getting out of that backward region.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jakker City
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Postby Jakker City » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:41 am

Kuriko wrote:
Jakker City wrote:I added more specifics as to the number of defenses/liberations. As for the awards, I can get that. I think something is to be said when nation peers believe someone to be so awesome that they warrant such recognition.

To answer Praeceps and BBD's questions, I believe that Twobagger should be commended for their years of service towards supporting regions in need as well as how well they approached switching. Twobagger recently decided to no longer be a defender and switch. This is a tough transition for anyone to go through, especially one who has dedicate so long to one side. They resigned from their positions and provided some time before fully switching. Once the switch was publically announced, 10,000 Islands banned the nominee and stripped them of their military record. While I don't fully agree with all of that, I get that. What I find troubling is how the XKI community has worked to vilify Twobagger both in the initial announcement and after the fact for doing this. As someone who has experienced friends and close allies switch sides, I get that it is not fun. With that said, I am sadden with how Twobagger has been treated by them. Furthermore, even with this treatment, Twobagger handled the situation very respectfully and I can say has actively tried to do this with as little impact on 10,000 Islands as possible including not revealing military details and trying to stay under the radar.

I think that this nation has been under the radar for too long and deserves to be recognized. I think the story conveys their commitment to integrity. We should promote and encourage nations who pursue happiness for themselves. I wanted to be mindful of my language in the proposal to reflect all of this. I intentionally did not use any direct language to convey the side in which Twobagger switched to make sure it did not appear as any type of advertisement or promotion. I used language like progress and innovation because I thought those would be two reasonable reasons why a nation would change alliances.
It has come to my attention that Twobagger joined TBH in November under the name Julian. I would like to point out that, in November, Twobagger was still a member of TITO Command and did this without telling anyone. Twobagger resigned from TITO command and TITO itself in early December, after having started as Julian in TBH and gave his reasons for resigning to be that he got a new job and was busy moving.

Furthermore, you can imagine how upset people were when all but three XKI members had to find out with a public announcement on the NS forums. The day of that announcement, January 11th, was the same day that Twobagger approached me and two other XKI leaders to inform us that he had switched sides. He didn't privately inform anyone else in XKI of what was coming, and of course there are a lot of hurt feelings surrounding the way it was handled.

Twobagger was even allowed, trustingly, into the update planning channel while he was involved in a raid by the Black Hawks because nobody was aware of his new affiliations. I would also like to point out that Twobagger was 100% fully aware of what would happen on our end, since he was a long time member of our community and according to Kanta Hame (our FC) one of the very people who set up our policy about raiders being in our community. I will be personally abstaining from this vote, but I want to clear the air up and would like to ask that the vilification clause be removed.


I cannot speak for Twobagger, but I believe that in-between period was because they recognized the culture of XKI as you said and what would happen. I imagine he wanted to make sure that he was making the best decision for himself. As was noted in the proposal and in an earlier reply, even with this access, Twobagger did not take advantage of this or share intel, and was simply treated like another member of the region.

Kuriko wrote:
Jakker City wrote:
I did not say that the vilification was all done publicly. I use this definition, "to vilify is to talk about or admonish someone in a way that's ruthlessly caustic and often slanderous or exaggerated. While it is possible to fairly criticize people while remaining positive overall, to vilify is to be uncompromisingly negative, and maybe even abusive or hateful."

Examples from XKI's forum post about Twobagger being banned from the region:

"It makes every compliment Twobagger ever gave me and every moment of connection I thought we had ring hollow given the ease of his decision to turn his back on all of that."

"He told me I was a great defender and I really liked him as TO. It all just feels cheap now. I even backed him and Hame during the Defender awards. It's just really crappy."

Both of those comments were made from members of the region's government.

And then, Hakketomat, a member of TITO Command, went after Twobagger in the Rejected Realms discord server; referring to him as "by definition a piece of shit."

And those are just the comments that I am aware of. Seems to fit the definition.

Like I said, you can imagine emotions were running high when people were lied to for two or three months before publicly finding out that he switched sides on the NS forum. Sargon was hurt because he thought Twobagger held to the same ideals as all the rest of us, that raiding is not something to take lightly and that defense of natives is virtuous and good. Hakketomat felt betrayed due to the way this came to light and because of how Twobagger revealed his switching sides, something I'm all sure we're aware happens from time to time when people are hurt.

And I find it odd that you're using this as vilification, especially after the way TBH and others treated Nakari when she switched to defending. I remember that some really mean, choice words were said about her that can't and won't be repeated here on this forum. I think we've handled Twobaggers switch very well considering how it all went down.


It's been a while since the Nakari thing went down, so I don't remember all of the specifics. I would say as a region, I don't recall TBH actively treating Nakari poorly or namecalling. I don't really think there was too much fanfare after the initial reveal. I do recall Souls feeling hurt by it, but I think that was more related to feeling like his conversations with her before she switched was more OOC about feeling safe in the region. Again, I don't really remember all of the details in full and don't want to speak for others. With that said, I'm not sure if I would regard that quite in the same light.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:46 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Kuriko wrote:I will be personally abstaining from this vote, but I want to clear the air up and would like to ask that the vilification clause be removed.

Why would the vilification clause be removed? Jakker has provided specific examples of vilification, and the comment made by Hakketomat certainly fits the definition of vilification. All the comments do, to be honest, but that one in particular is unquestionably vilification. So why on earth would anyone remove that clause, except that you don't want these acts of vilification publicly acknowledged? There's literally no other reason to remove it.

Here's a thought, next time if you don't want 10000 Islanders called out for vilifying someone, perhaps they should refrain from doing it.

Full support from me for this proposal, and congratulations to Twobagger for getting out of that backward region.

Emotions run high when people feel betrayed and hurt, lied too for however many months they were lied too. I expect that you, or anyone, would react the same way initially if it happened. How can it not? It's human nature, and as time goes on and we get through it I expect that they'll feel bad about things they've said.

We are not a backwards region for not wanting raiders in our region, we're a pragmatic one. And If you're calling us backwards because of how we handled Twobagger switching sides, how do you think other regions would react if someone in those regions defected to an enemy region and then lied for three months to the original community? If there was a court system they would hsve been put on trial and banned.
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TITO Tactical Officer of the 10000 Islands
Registrar-General and Chief of Staff of the 10000 Islands
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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Arkadia Universalis
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Oct 16, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Arkadia Universalis » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:53 am

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Raiding is not "progress and innovation", against.


It’s a good thing that he isn’t being commended for raiding then, isn’t it? :P

On a more serious note, Twobagger’s contributions to defending over the last several years warrant commendation, and his recent alignment change does not outweigh them even remotely. Just because XKI is collectively unable to reconcile their comically zealous brand of defending with a player’s completely IC decision to pursue a more enjoyable playstyle does not mean that said player’s previous commendable actions are rendered null and void.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2454
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:54 am

Kuriko wrote:Emotions run high when people feel betrayed and hurt, lied too for however many months they were lied too. I expect that you, or anyone, would react the same way initially if it happened. How can it not? It's human nature, and as time goes on and we get through it I expect that they'll feel bad about things they've said.

We are not a backwards region for not wanting raiders in our region, we're a pragmatic one. And If you're calling us backwards because of how we handled Twobagger switching sides, how do you think other regions would react if someone in those regions defected to an enemy region and then lied for three months to the original community? If there was a court system they would hsve been put on trial and banned.

I have in fact reacted poorly to certain situations, and I haven't gotten a pass for my reactions. I still hear about things I did years ago. You also brought up how Souls reacted to Nakari, and he still gets to hear about that, years later. So I guess the disconnect I'm not understanding is why you think 10000 Islanders are unique in that they should be able to have these outlandish negative reactions, but no one should publicly acknowledge them?

Sometimes when you say ridiculous things, people hear about it. You live with it and move on. There's no reason it should be swept under the rug uniquely for 10000 Islanders, just because you don't like that these things were said or you don't like that people know about them. That's frankly just tough luck.

In any case, the vilification clause clearly is accurate, so other than you having personal objections I see no reason for it to be removed.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kuriko
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1296
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:54 am

Jakker City wrote:It's been a while since the Nakari thing went down, so I don't remember all of the specifics. I would say as a region, I don't recall TBH actively treating Nakari poorly or namecalling. I don't really think there was too much fanfare after the initial reveal. I do recall Souls feeling hurt by it, but I think that was more related to feeling like his conversations with her before she switched was more OOC about feeling safe in the region. Again, I don't really remember all of the details in full and don't want to speak for others. With that said, I'm not sure if I would regard that quite in the same light.

The Nakari situation was almost basically the same thing, someone lying about switching sides and staying with the community until revealing they're switch knowing fully well the consequences. She was vilified by members of the Raider community, but much worse than by what you're claiming we've done on TB. There has hardly been any fanfare since TB switching in January up until you posted this, and it's understandable that fanfare would die down over time. But it's been less than a month, and emotions are still running high.
WA Secretary-General
TITO Tactical Officer of the 10000 Islands
Registrar-General and Chief of Staff of the 10000 Islands
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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Kuriko
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1296
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kuriko » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:59 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Kuriko wrote:Emotions run high when people feel betrayed and hurt, lied too for however many months they were lied too. I expect that you, or anyone, would react the same way initially if it happened. How can it not? It's human nature, and as time goes on and we get through it I expect that they'll feel bad about things they've said.

We are not a backwards region for not wanting raiders in our region, we're a pragmatic one. And If you're calling us backwards because of how we handled Twobagger switching sides, how do you think other regions would react if someone in those regions defected to an enemy region and then lied for three months to the original community? If there was a court system they would hsve been put on trial and banned.

I have in fact reacted poorly to certain situations, and I haven't gotten a pass for my reactions. I still hear about things I did years ago. You also brought up how Souls reacted to Nakari, and he still gets to hear about that, years later. So I guess the disconnect I'm not understanding is why you think 10000 Islanders are unique in that they should be able to have these outlandish negative reactions, but no one should publicly acknowledge them?

Sometimes when you say ridiculous things, people hear about it. You live with it and move on. There's no reason it should be swept under the rug uniquely for 10000 Islanders, just because you don't like that these things were said or you don't like that people know about them. That's frankly just tough luck.

I'm not saying they should be swept under the rug or forgotten, what I'm saying is that OOC reactions to feeling betrayed and hurt and lied too shouldn't be remarked upon in an IC proposal or resolution. Other proposals have received far worse flak for the very same thing, but somehow since its XKI related OOC reactions should be remarked on in an IC resolution?
WA Secretary-General
TITO Tactical Officer of the 10000 Islands
Registrar-General and Chief of Staff of the 10000 Islands
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

Former TITO Tactical Officer
Former Commander of TGW, UDSAF, and FORGE
Proud founder of The Hole To Hide In
Person behind the Regional Officer resignation button
Person behind the Offsite Chat tag and the Jump Point tag
WA Character limit increase to 5,000 characters

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