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What do you think of time banks?

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Statnick
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What do you think of time banks?

Postby Statnick » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:00 pm

I think Andrew Yang introduced the concept of time banks as a part of his policy. Regardless of what you think of Yang, I thought time banks were interesting on their own. I found one time bank here. https://timerepublik.com/ The basic concept is it is a leger that keeps track of hours, and people can pay an hour credit for an hour of ork, or sell their hours for credits.

My thoughts is that given that a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, the hour-credit currency is subject to deadweight losses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss. However, I did read, "Equal Time, Equal Value," and the data shows that time banks increase volunteerism, and they give poor people access to services the poor otherwise could not afford.

Comparing time banks to stamp scrip currencies of the 1930's https://theplanforthefuture.org/2018/06 ... -of-worgl/, I also think time banks could be used as a local currency (which they are traditionally used for anyway), to fight any liquidity traps. So, when the rich stop spending, and the poor have no money to spend, all the money is stuck in Wallstreet. So, the local currencies could pick-up from there.

Specifically, I could see cryptocurrencies, whose spending and nodes are limited to the ip-addresses within a county, parish, or provence. There could be a time-bank currency in each county. The social contract could make it such that it is strictly for people's time. In good times, when people want to use the national currency, the provincial crypto-currencies will increase volunteerism and foster social trust. In the bad times, it will become the fallback currency. Traditionally, stamp scrip currencies failed in the good times.

What do you think?
Last edited by Statnick on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:55 pm

If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:00 pm

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.

Reminds me of a story.

The organs of the body were arguing over who should be the boss.

The brain claimed that it should be the boss because it coordinated everything.

The muscles said they should be the boss because without them, the body couldn't move.

The stomach declared that it should be the boss because otherwise the other organs would starve.

Finally, the asshole spoke up and said it was going to be the boss. All the other organs laughed and laughed at the idea of the asshole being the boss. The asshole got so mad that he closed up.

After a while, the brain got dizzy, the muscles grew weak, and the stomach felt sick. They all begged the asshole to be boss. Since then, all the other organs did the work and the asshole just bossed and passed out a lot of crap.
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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:04 pm

this seems to me like were moving towards this https://youtu.be/YRSBiTF3wNw and I don't want that
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:07 pm

I thought this was a Trading Cards idea on how banks will expire after a set time. That would have been a horrible idea!

Anyway, this one...

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.

I actually heard of another one, courtesy of Reddit. So basically, your typical company, and there's the moral of the story that everyone's important, and sometimes... We don't know until they are missing.

A CEO is away for maybe 2-3 days. No problem, the company can still Skype or do some business calls and ask what's what. No problem.

A janitor was late for 30 mins because he was not well. Hilarity ensues because everyone realised that they couldn't go to the toilet, and he has the keys to the bathrooms.

No matter the job, I would consider everyone to be important.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:09 pm

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.


>janitors go on strike
>replaced by illegal immigrants

nice one
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Gig em Aggies
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Postby Gig em Aggies » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:11 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.


>janitors go on strike
>replaced by illegal immigrants

nice one

or janitors get let go because company doesn't want to pay American wages so they import cheaper workers from down south
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:12 pm

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.


Hmmmmm not really. I have known more then a few programmer's who were complete slobs. ;)
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Asle Leopolka
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Postby Asle Leopolka » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:23 pm

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.

Image

https://www.replacedbyrobot.info/22452/ ... -custodian

Guess who designed the janitorial robots.

Personally, I don't think time banks will work, because A. it'll be way too hard to explain the benefits to a Gantt chart or simple share system to the masses, B. it has prohibitively high overhead and complexity on the macro level (it would be a centrally planned system, so go ahead and ask the USSR how that worked out), and C. everyone will think their time is more valuable than other people's and will feel jipped regardless.
Last edited by Asle Leopolka on Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victorious Decepticons
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Postby Victorious Decepticons » Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:49 pm

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.

A mess could pile up to the point that a computer fanatic (programmer) was utterly engulfed, and he wouldn't even notice it was there as long as the screen stayed on. The business would therefore be utterly unaffected by a total lack of janitors, assuming it's an internet company and no customers can see (and judge) the surroundings. :p

On the other hand, if the programmer quits, nobody else is going to be able to figure out WTF once something glitches. How long it'd take for the glitch to appear may vary, but there will be one at some point, and it'll take a programmer to figure it out. Not to mention the possibility of the programmer having left "nice" parting gifts like backdoors and deadman switches in the code.

I'd definitely say the programmer is more important. If the programmer finally does get sick of the mess, perhaps when he trips over it when the system is down and he has to find something else to do, he can always clean it himself.
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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:23 pm

Time banks. First thing that comes to my mind is the movie where people die if the clock on their arm reaches 0000:00:00:00:00:00, starring Justin Timberlake. The only way to survive is by earning time. The rich get to live for thousands of years while the poor drop dead like flies. Old age is a thing of the past. Time banks literally store biological time.
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Statnick
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Postby Statnick » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:29 am

Katganistan wrote:If you think a janitor's time is not worth a programmer's time, let the Janitors go on strike for a week.

You'll soon see who's more important.


I don't think I meant it the way you took it.

I only mean it in a strict, technical economic sense. There is a large supply of janitors that meet demand. The supply of programmers doesn't quite meet demand, so the pay is higher. I am sure that...

1. If there was a massive shortage of janitors, and no one wanted the job of cleaning poop out of toilets, and the demand remained high, it would be possible that janitors get paid way more than programmers.

2. As other people have argued, I agree that we cannot get rid of the janitors. I was a janitor for 1.5 years. It was a very humbling and fun job. I saw how some parts of it were automated, like Walmart automated the automops. To clarify, a mop is the stick with a rag on it. An automop is a pad with a vibrating motor and a tank of water on top. The automop has another motor to push it, but a human still has to guide it. The automated automop doesn't need human guidance. Walmart just releases it at night. However, I haven't seen the toilet cleaning bot or the dusting bot yet. Generally, those positions are a little harder to automate. I am sure they will be some day but not for 5 years for sure.

I was only pointing out that there is a relative glut of janitors, and a relative shortage of programmers. So setting the price equal sets an economic deadweight loss.

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Statnick
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Postby Statnick » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:07 am

New Bremerton wrote:Time banks. First thing that comes to my mind is the movie where people die if the clock on their arm reaches 0000:00:00:00:00:00, starring Justin Timberlake. The only way to survive is by earning time. The rich get to live for thousands of years while the poor drop dead like flies. Old age is a thing of the past. Time banks literally store biological time.


I don't think we should store biological time, just labor.
Last edited by Statnick on Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.


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