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[Idea] Safe bank transfer system needed please!

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The Strangers Club
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[Idea] Safe bank transfer system needed please!

Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:23 pm

I am really surprised that there is not a way to safely transfer bank from nation to nation. I thought that this feature would be added in the recent update. However, I was unpleasantly surprised when it wasn't. This feature is needed because it makes transferring bank SO much easier than how it currently is which allows for bank "pirates" to steal other people's bank without any repercussions. I am pleading to the game mods or whoever is in charge of the trading cards to add this feature in the game. It would really make this game a lot more enjoyable and will keep me playing a lot longer than I am right now. Does anyone else feel the same way about this or is it just me?
Last edited by The Strangers Club on Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:53 pm

That is intentionally not allowed.
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The Strangers Club
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Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:07 pm

USS Monitor wrote:That is intentionally not allowed.

Why not?
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The JELLEAIN Republic
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Postby The JELLEAIN Republic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:08 pm

Cuz anyone can make spam nations and get near infinite bank
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The Strangers Club
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Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:10 pm

The JELLEAIN Republic wrote:Cuz anyone can make spam nations and get near infinite bank

And why is that such a bad thing? I think it would even out the playing field.
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9003
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Postby 9003 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:12 pm

It makes it extremely easy for huge farmers to gain a crazy unfair advantage and gather and horde stupid bank we saw a fair bit of price shenanigans during the April fool's event. That being said there are ways if doing safer transfers check out the awsome guide written by DGES
I'll edit in a link once I find it

Main page link
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1301085

Transfer page link
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispa ... 089#SAFETY
Last edited by 9003 on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The JELLEAIN Republic
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Postby The JELLEAIN Republic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:13 pm

The Strangers Club wrote:
The JELLEAIN Republic wrote:Cuz anyone can make spam nations and get near infinite bank

And why is that such a bad thing? I think it would even out the playing field.


You are rewarded for putting in work.

There is no “playing field” to even as the only variable is work and time put into the system.
So by flooding the economy with spam cards and bank, it destroys the object of the game, to earn it.
Last edited by The JELLEAIN Republic on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Strangers Club
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Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:15 pm

9003 wrote:It makes it extremely easy for huge farmers to gain a crazy unfair advantage and gather and horde stupid bank we saw a fair bit of price shenanigans during the April fool's event. That being said there are ways if doing safer transfers check out the awsome guide written by DGES
I'll edit in a link once I find it

Yeah, I guess it would break the game a bit. But maybe they can set how much bank you can transfer in a day or something similar. Come on guys, I think they can make this work!
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The Strangers Club
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Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:18 pm

The JELLEAIN Republic wrote:
The Strangers Club wrote:And why is that such a bad thing? I think it would even out the playing field.


You are rewarded for putting in work.

There is no “playing field” to even as the only variable is work and time put into the system.
So by flooding the economy with spam cards and bank, it destroys the object of the game, to earn it.

Describe "earning it" to me because right now the current system allows for people to steal honest traders such as myself hard work. I'm not the only one who feels this way. A lot of fellow card traders in the past have told me that the current system is discouraging and makes them give up on trading.
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The Strangers Club
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Postby The Strangers Club » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:20 pm

And you still have to switch between puppets and answer issues which is the hardest part so I don't see what you guys mean about it ruining the game and whatnot.
Last edited by The Strangers Club on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The JELLEAIN Republic
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Postby The JELLEAIN Republic » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:23 pm

The Strangers Club wrote:
The JELLEAIN Republic wrote:
You are rewarded for putting in work.

There is no “playing field” to even as the only variable is work and time put into the system.
So by flooding the economy with spam cards and bank, it destroys the object of the game, to earn it.

Describe "earning it" to me because right now the current system allows for people to steal honest traders such as myself hard work. I'm not the only one who feels this way. A lot of fellow card traders in the past have told me that the current system is discouraging and makes them give up on trading.


Can you please explain further how that happens ?

Also, that being true or not, giving everyone with some time or technical capability Infinite bank would change from Minecraft survival to creative mode.
Last edited by The JELLEAIN Republic on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Freshxdollts » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:02 am

The Strangers Club wrote:And you still have to switch between puppets and answer issues which is the hardest part so I don't see what you guys mean about it ruining the game and whatnot.

It's only hard if you want to achieve something (like high cheerfulness), so you have to answer issues "correctly" to reach your goal.
Otherwise its just 30 seconds rapid clicking per nation.

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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:06 am

The Strangers Club wrote:
The JELLEAIN Republic wrote:Cuz anyone can make spam nations and get near infinite bank

And why is that such a bad thing? I think it would even out the playing field.

If "even out the playing field" now means "give people with hundreds of puppets an unfair advantage" then yes.
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Postby SherpDaWerp » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:58 am

At the moment, card farmers (which I guess might even include me...) have to put risk and money into transferring bank. With an auto-transfer system, there would be no risk involved and the big farmers would be able to grow so much faster.

It sounds to me like you got heisted once or twice and now you're begging for a way around it. In this case, as someone who operates many puppets, you just have to deal with it and accept it as a necessary cost of transferring. I remember when I first got heisted for around 2.00 bank, which, at the time was an incredible amount for me. There are methods and there are ways to decrease the risk involved in transferring, but allowing entirely risk-free transfers is not a good idea.
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Postby Palmira » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:34 am

The Strangers Club wrote:I am really surprised that there is not a way to safely transfer bank from nation to nation. I thought that this feature would be added in the recent update. However, I was unpleasantly surprised when it wasn't. This feature is needed because it makes transferring bank SO much easier than how it currently is which allows for bank "pirates" to steal other people's bank without any repercussions. I am pleading to the game mods or whoever is in charge of the trading cards to add this feature in the game. It would really make this game a lot more enjoyable and will keep me playing a lot longer than I am right now. Does anyone else feel the same way about this or is it just me?

You are definitely not the only nation that has paid the penalty for a moment of inattention and been robbed. It's especially sickening when you look at the thief and see that they have over 500 bank; yet they stole a bank transfer between two nations, each of who has less than 5 bank (it seems to be the less than 10 bank nations that get treated this way). The most interesting part of this is when confronted, they claim they are not thieves because the game allows it. Um, life allows robbery, too. Bank heist is dishonest. Bank heisters are thieves. To be fair the majority of cardies don't act like this. Most are honest. They earn their bank by hard work rather than by theft.

On the other hand I understand what the others in this thread are saying. If bank transfer was easy the rich would get richer even faster and have an even bigger advantage than they do now.

IMNSHO I think the way to deal with robbery is to bring it out in the open. Right now the robbers act really self righteous (I didn't do anything illegal) and snicker about it on discord while the victims feel angry and are made to feel somewhat ashamed that they didn't play well enough. Maybe a dishonesty thread should be started here so that the 99% know not to transfer bank when robbers are running their rigs.

IRL isn't this called community policing?
Last edited by Palmira on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Riemstagrad » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:36 am

it's not robbery.

If you place a bid of 5.00 on a random common, that means that you are willing to pay 5.00 on that random common. If another owner of that same random common spots that auction, there is a good chance that this other owner is willing to sell the same card for less. That's how the market works.

If you are transferring bank through the auction, it's you who are exploiting the auction. And that comes with a certain risk. New players often get surprised, but most of us learn fast and try to reduce the risks. Don't get fooled by the high deck value someone has. Every single one of them learned it the hard way and most are still loosing cash every now and then. Take your losses and move on. Be more careful next time.

You can't compare heisting with a robbery. Compare it to transferring money by bidding 500 times the value on a stock exchange and being surprised that other traders are happy enough to sell it to you for that price.

Edit: If you're creating a shaming thread for heists, i can't wait to get listed there :)
Last edited by Riemstagrad on Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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9003
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Postby 9003 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:58 am

While I understand the pain of losing transfers, I've had more then my fair share swiped most recently (last night) a 100 bank, there are many things that can be done to reduce the risk.

If you walk up to people and say rob me please or make zero effort to be safe I have little to no sympathy if you get heisted by a system designed by [v] and refered to as the anti laundrying system. (The increased odds of pulling at auction cards).

I don't see it as exploiting the system by heisting transfers when the system offten provides the means to do so.
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Postby Destructive Government Economic System » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:19 am

9003 wrote:It makes it extremely easy for huge farmers to gain a crazy unfair advantage and gather and horde stupid bank we saw a fair bit of price shenanigans during the April fool's event. That being said there are ways if doing safer transfers check out the awsome guide written by DGES
I'll edit in a link once I find it

Main page link
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1301085

Transfer page link
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispa ... 089#SAFETY


I won't bother explaining why heisting is meant to be part of the game (many others have already done that for me), but yes, should you strategize in your auctions then you may find yourself capable of reducing the risks involved with transfers.

Initially, I also found myself losing considerable quantities of cash due to reckless transfers, but I've learned from other players (including Frisbeeteria and Refuge Isle) of interesting ways to give me a fighting chance at sending my bank.

I've summarized my year(s) of experience into the guide that 9003 linked. There are 3 transfer methods listed in this guide, with the second and third methods being particularly useful if you do it correctly.
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Postby Catsfern » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:25 am

Trust me even with the restrictions in place funneling bank can be pretty easy, I would know I used to have 30 nations all funneling into my main that racked up a lot of bank really quick sometimes.
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Postby All Wild Things » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:57 pm

You can do risk-free transfers from a puppet to a main. If the puppet has two rare cards, they can junk one, then pay the transfer fee to gift the other card to the main. The main then junks the card, gaining 0.10. The obvious downside is that half of the total (0.10 + 0.10 = 0.20) original card value was destroyed in the transfer.

By using the auction system to transfer bank, then as long as you don't lose more than half your value on average, then you're doing better than if you did the risk free way.

One thing to ask yourself, is do you need to transfer bank anyway?

I use different puppets to hold different themed collections. (Having lots of small collections is easier to manage across different puppets. It also has the benefit of not being so expensive to expand deck size to accommodate collections.)

Say I start a cat collection for my cat puppet. I look up all the cards I want to bid on. With my cat puppet, I bid for all the epics and rares etc that I want. With another puppet, I bid for all the commons. When I win a bid for the commons, I just have to pay 0.01 per card to gift it to my cat puppet. Yes, it does cost me extra, but not so much. And it's risk free. I don't have to stress about transferring bank.

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Postby The Strangers Club » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:23 am

All Wild Things wrote:One thing to ask yourself, is do you need to transfer bank anyway?

I use different puppets to hold different themed collections. (Having lots of small collections is easier to manage across different puppets. It also has the benefit of not being so expensive to expand deck size to accommodate collections.)

Say I start a cat collection for my cat puppet. I look up all the cards I want to bid on. With my cat puppet, I bid for all the epics and rares etc that I want. With another puppet, I bid for all the commons. When I win a bid for the commons, I just have to pay 0.01 per card to gift it to my cat puppet. Yes, it does cost me extra, but not so much. And it's risk free. I don't have to stress about transferring bank.

This is actually what I am currently doing and I guess it's not SO bad but it could be better...
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Riemstagrad
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Postby Riemstagrad » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:51 am

Transferring bank costs me at this moment around 5% of the total value i transfer. That's all costs included (buying transfer cards, gifting back, heists...) I'm not going to describe it into detail here, but i think it's close to what DGES describes in his guide. (https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1301085).
I'm sure players will offer further assistance on the Cards discord if you're interested.

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Postby Noahs Second Country » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:54 pm

Palmira wrote:You are definitely not the only nation that has paid the penalty for a moment of inattention and been robbed. It's especially sickening when you look at the thief and see that they have over 500 bank; yet they stole a bank transfer between two nations, each of who has less than 5 bank (it seems to be the less than 10 bank nations that get treated this way). The most interesting part of this is when confronted, they claim they are not thieves because the game allows it. Um, life allows robbery, too. Bank heist is dishonest. Bank heisters are thieves. To be fair the majority of cardies don't act like this. Most are honest. They earn their bank by hard work rather than by theft.

IMNSHO I think the way to deal with robbery is to bring it out in the open. Right now the robbers act really self righteous (I didn't do anything illegal) and snicker about it on discord while the victims feel angry and are made to feel somewhat ashamed that they didn't play well enough. Maybe a dishonesty thread should be started here so that the 99% know not to transfer bank when robbers are running their rigs.

IRL isn't this called community policing?

This is a good idea. I just had 3.00 bank stolen from me by a player with more that 1200 bank. It's really frustrating because I've seen many smaller nations get preyed on by the same person. As someone only starting out in the card trade system I understand that I'll lose some before I learn but events like these serve as an unnecessary gate to card trading imo. At least with this concept it will make it much easier to recognize these large, rich nations who prey on smaller ones. People will continue to abuse the system but I'm sure it will affect at least a few nations.
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Lone survivers
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Postby Lone survivers » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:19 am

Noahs Second Country wrote:This is a good idea. I just had 3.00 bank stolen from me by a player with more that 1200 bank. It's really frustrating because I've seen many smaller nations get preyed on by the same person. As someone only starting out in the card trade system I understand that I'll lose some before I learn but events like these serve as an unnecessary gate to card trading imo. At least with this concept it will make it much easier to recognize these large, rich nations who prey on smaller ones. People will continue to abuse the system but I'm sure it will affect at least a few nations.

While the meaning itself is good intentioned, I´m afraid it wont work, because of the system, which allows anonymity and almost unlimited puppets and farms. And how would you prevent said nations to do the same scam by using some of their puppets, or create new ones for such cause ?

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Red Millennium
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Postby Red Millennium » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:28 am

I have a idea. How about allowing nations to gift money to other nations if they pay the same amount of money to be able to do that?

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