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[SUBMITTED] Having Faith In Communism

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Sensorland
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[SUBMITTED] Having Faith In Communism

Postby Sensorland » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:53 pm

You know what I haven't seen? An issue targeted at countries that are both communist and theocratic. So here's a draft I whipped up.

Current draft:
Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples through the socialist world as he accused you of "betraying the ideals of communism" by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. "How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there too, probably. In fact, it's @@FAITH@@ that sustains socialism! Stalzing's the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are."
Effect: no true communist is an unbeliever

Option 2
"@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. "We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, in order to give our comrades more freedom. Letting them choose their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and it'll promote unity with our fellow socialist nations."
Effect: @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are looking a lot more rested on Sundays
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
"That doesn't go nearly far enough!" shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Religion is a tool used by the powerful to oppress and control the proletariat! To achieve true equality under communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban not just @@FAITH@@, but all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!"
Effect: @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ can never be sure if there will be a god when they wake up in the morning
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
"Heathens, the lot of you!" ejaculates televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. "It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you're talking about abolishing the wrong one! The pride of @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ will be our downfall! Are we, as mere mortals, in any place to decide how wealth should be spread? Only Providence is wise and powerful enough to decide who should be extravagantly wealthy and who should be a beggar on the streets! Any attempts to promote 'equality' will only serve to incur divine wrath! Let the divine decide who to reward and punish; abolish this heretical economic system at once!"
Effect: holy men preach that the poor are being punished for their sins
Removes policy: Socialism
Enacts policy: Capitalism


Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples through the socialist world as he accused you of "betraying the ideals of communism" by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. "How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there too, probably. In fact, it's @@FAITH@@ that sustains socialism! Stalzing's the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are."
Effect: no true communist is an unbeliever

Option 2
"@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. "We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, in order to give our comrades more freedom. Letting them choose their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and it'll promote unity with our fellow socialist nations."
Effect: @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ are looking a lot more rested on Sundays
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
"That doesn't go nearly far enough!" shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Religion is a tool used by the powerful to oppress and control the proletariat! To achieve true equality under communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban not just @@FAITH@@, but all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!"
Effect: @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ can never be sure if there will be a god when they wake up in the morning
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
"Heathens, the lot of you!" ejaculates televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. "It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you're talking about abolishing the wrong one! Thanks to @@NAME@@'s ban on private enterprise, I haven't been able to preach to a massive audience and receive donations—tax-exempt, of course—to spread the holy word! It's keeping me from saving the souls of the damned! End this socialist nonsense once and for all, so I can finally get my private jet ba- er, I mean, so I can spread the word of the holy truth of @@FAITH@@ throughout the land! After all, what's more important, our economic system in this world, or the fate of our nation’s souls in the next?"
Effect: holy men are the new bourgeoisie
Removes policy: Socialism
Enacts policy: Capitalism


Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples throughout the socialist world as he accused you of “betraying the ideals of communism” by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. “How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably. In fact, it's @@FAITH@@ that sustains socialism! Stalzing’s the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are.”
Effect: no true communist is an unbeliever

Option 2
“@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. “We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, in order to give our comrades more freedom. Choosing their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and promote unity with our fellow socialist nations.”
Effect: the population is looking a lot more rested on Sundays
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
“That doesn’t go nearly far enough!” shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. “Religion is a tool used by the powerful to oppress and control the proletariat! To achieve true equality under communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban not just @@FAITH@@, but all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!”
Effect: citizens are never sure whether or not there will be a god when they wake up in the morning
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
“Heathens, the lot of you!” ejaculates former televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. “It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you’re talking about abolishing the wrong one! Ever since @@NAME@@ has been socialist, I haven't been able to preach to a massive audience and receive donations—tax-exempt, of course—to spread the holy word! It's keeping me from saving the souls of the damned! End this socialist nonsense once and for all, so I can finally get my private jet ba- er, I mean, so we’ll finally have free enterprise and I can once again tell the world of the holy truth of @@FAITH@@. After all, what’s more important, our economic system in this world, or the fate of our nation’s souls in the next?”
Effect: holy men are the new bourgeoisie
Removes policy: Socialism
Enacts policy: Capitalism

Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples throughout the socialist world as he accused you of “betraying the ideals of communism” by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. “How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably. In fact, it's @@FAITH@@ that sustains socialism! Stalzing’s the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are.”
Effect: people who don’t follow @@FAITH@@ are labeled as “fake communists”

Option 2
“@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. “We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, in order to give our comrades more freedom. Choosing their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and promote unity with our fellow socialist nations.”
Effect: church attendance is plummeting
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
“That doesn’t go nearly far enough!” shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. “Religion is a tool used by the powerful to oppress and control the proletariat! To achieve true equality under communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban not just @@FAITH@@, but all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!”
Effect: religious activity is now considered treasonous
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
“Heathens, the lot of you!” ejaculates former televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. “It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you’re talking about abolishing the wrong one! Ever since @@NAME@@ has been socialist, I haven't been able to preach to a massive audience and receive donations to spread the holy word! Tax-exempt, of course. It's keeping me from saving the souls of the damned! End this socialist nonsense once and for all, so I can finally get my private jet ba- er, I mean, so we’ll finally have free enterprise and I can once again tell the world of the holy truth of @@FAITH@@. After all, what’s more important, our economic system in this world, or the fate of our nation’s souls in the next?”
Effect: holy men are the new bourgeoisie
Removes policy: Socialism
Enacts policy: Capitalism


Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples throughout the socialist world as he accused you of “betraying the ideals of communism” by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. “How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably. In fact, it's @@FAITH@@ that sustains socialism! Stalzing’s the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are.”
Effect: people who don’t follow @@FAITH@@ are labeled as “fake communists”

Option 2
“@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. “We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, in order to give our comrades more freedom. Choosing their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and promote unity with our fellow socialist nations.”
Effect: church attendance is plummeting
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
“That doesn’t go nearly far enough!” shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. “Religion is incompatible with communism! As Max himself said, religion is the syrup of the masses. To achieve true communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban not just @@FAITH@@, but all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!”
Effect: religious activity is now considered treasonous
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
“Heathens, the lot of you!” ejaculates former televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. “It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you’re talking about abolishing the wrong one! Ever since @@NAME@@ has been socialist, I haven't been able to preach to a massive audience and receive tax-exempt donations… for holy purposes, of course. It's keeping me from saving the souls of the damned! End this socialist nonsense once and for all, so I can finally get my private jet ba- er, I mean, so we’ll finally have free enterprise again. After all, what’s more important, our economic system in this world, or the fate of our nation’s souls in the next?”
Effect: holy men are the new bourgeoisie
Removes policy: Socialism
Enacts policy: Capitalism


Title: Having Faith in Communism
Validity: Must have policies: Socialism, Theocracy

The issue: Comments by Jao Stalzing, the Chairman of the East Lebatuck Communist Party, have sent ripples throughout the socialist world as he accused you of “betraying the ideals of communism” by imposing @@FAITH@@ on the populace of @@NAME@@.

Option 1
Your Minister of Faith is livid. “How dare this heathen accuse us of such a thing! It’s the spirit of @@FAITH@@ that sustains true socialism! Stalzing’s the one condemning his comrades to an eternity of torment with this state atheism nonsense. I say we send missionaries to spread the word of @@FAITH@@ all around the socialist world, so our comrades can be just as enlightened as we are.”
Effect: people who don’t follow @@FAITH@@ are labeled as “fake communists”

Option 2
“@@FAITH@@ is an integral part of our national culture, but perhaps Comrade Stalzing has a point,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your ambassador to East Lebatuck. “We should stop officially mandating the worship of @@FAITH@@, for the sake of unity with our fellow socialist nations.”
Effect: church attendance is plummeting
Removes policy: Theocracy

Option 3
“That doesn’t go nearly far enough!” shouts Maxist-Lenyoist scholar, @@RANDOMNAME@@. “Religion is incompatible with communism! To achieve true communism, we must do as Comrade Stalzing has, and ban all religion from @@NAME@@! Just think how productive all those old cathedrals and monasteries will be as factories!”
Effect: religious activity is now considered treasonous
Removes policy: Theocracy
Enacts policy: Atheism

Option 4
“Heathens, the lot of you!” ejaculates former televangelist @@RANDOMNAME@@. “It’s true that religion is incompatible with communism, but you’re talking about abolishing the wrong one! End this socialist nonsense once and for all! Then I can finally get my private jet ba- er, I mean, we’ll finally have free enterprise again. After all, what’s more important, our economic system in this world, or the fate of our nation’s souls in the next?”
Effect: holy men are the new bourgeoisie
Removes policy: Socialism
Last edited by Sensorland on Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:30 am, edited 9 times in total.
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The united American-Isreali empire
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Postby The united American-Isreali empire » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:56 pm

add a opation to wage war on them....

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Postby Drunkerland » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:04 pm

I really hope this becomes an issue as Communism is my national religion.

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Postby Sensorland » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:06 pm

Drunkerland wrote:I really hope this becomes an issue as Communism is my national religion.

I hadn't anticipated that, but I suppose that would be rather hilarious.
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Postby Trotterdam » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:15 pm

I think the options could use better justifications:

1: Religions have long preached against the excesses of the rich, for the importance of charity, etc. So it's easy to see how religion can lead to communist ideals, even if in real life they've become estranged due to several leading figures in the communism movement being hardline anti-religious. While it may be difficult to assume that @@FAITH@@ has any particular tenets, that's no more of an issue here than in option 4, so I think you should actually have the speaker suggest some of the ways that religion supports communism, rather than just go "hey yeah they're compatible".

2: "Unity with our fellow socialist nations" seems like a bad reason to intruduce religious freedom, especially when many of those nations don't even have religious freedom to begin with, including the nation that triggered this issue as you establish in option 3 (having compulsory atheism instead). Instead, make an argument about how communism is about equal rights for all, and sometimes that means giving people the freedom to be different (in their beliefs) rather than forcing everyone to be equal.

3: Explain why communism hates religion.

4: Explain why religion hates communism.

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Postby USS Monitor » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:47 pm

The united American-Isreali empire wrote:add a opation to wage war on them....


This would be possible, but I don't think it's necessary. We already have several militaristic options in the game.

The 4 existing options are sufficient, but Trott makes a fair point that they could be explained better.
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Postby Lelscrep » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:08 pm

Trotterdam wrote:I think the options could use better justifications:

1: Religions have long preached against the excesses of the rich, for the importance of charity, etc. So it's easy to see how religion can lead to communist ideals, even if in real life they've become estranged due to several leading figures in the communism movement being hardline anti-religious. While it may be difficult to assume that @@FAITH@@ has any particular tenets, that's no more of an issue here than in option 4, so I think you should actually have the speaker suggest some of the ways that religion supports communism, rather than just go "hey yeah they're compatible".

2: "Unity with our fellow socialist nations" seems like a bad reason to intruduce religious freedom, especially when many of those nations don't even have religious freedom to begin with, including the nation that triggered this issue as you establish in option 3 (having compulsory atheism instead). Instead, make an argument about how communism is about equal rights for all, and sometimes that means giving people the freedom to be different (in their beliefs) rather than forcing everyone to be equal.

3: Explain why communism hates religion.

4: Explain why religion hates communism.

Coming from Marx himself, "Religion is the opium of the people." Marxists, at least, often see religion as a tool used by the powerful to control the working class. I agree it could be made more clear within the issue, but there's your answer. Religion mostly dislikes communism for this very reason, also.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:28 am

You can't two contradictory forms of government. How have you even lasted this long?
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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:38 am

Lelscrep wrote:Coming from Marx himself, "Religion is the opium of the people." Marxists, at least, often see religion as a tool used by the powerful to control the working class. I agree it could be made more clear within the issue, but there's your answer.
It's certainly possible for people to see it that way, and Marx did. However, it's not necessarily how all communists (in the sense of people who believe that wealth should be shared equally, not people who worship Marx's communist manifesto as the infallible Word of God) see it. Both points of view need to be justified better.

There are real-life religious communism movements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_socialism

Lelscrep wrote:Religion mostly dislikes communism for this very reason, also.
This is certainly a good reason for religion to dislike Marxists, but does religion have any reason to specifically dislike even those communists that do accept religion, other than "blindly lashing out at anything that vaguely resembles my enemy" syndrome?

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Postby Sensorland » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:56 am

Australian rePublic wrote:You can't two contradictory forms of government. How have you even lasted this long?

NS nations can, and some do, have both policies. So, at least in the game, there is no contradiction.
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Postby Sensorland » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:00 am

Trotterdam wrote:I think the options could use better justifications:

1: Religions have long preached against the excesses of the rich, for the importance of charity, etc. So it's easy to see how religion can lead to communist ideals, even if in real life they've become estranged due to several leading figures in the communism movement being hardline anti-religious. While it may be difficult to assume that @@FAITH@@ has any particular tenets, that's no more of an issue here than in option 4, so I think you should actually have the speaker suggest some of the ways that religion supports communism, rather than just go "hey yeah they're compatible".

2: "Unity with our fellow socialist nations" seems like a bad reason to intruduce religious freedom, especially when many of those nations don't even have religious freedom to begin with, including the nation that triggered this issue as you establish in option 3 (having compulsory atheism instead). Instead, make an argument about how communism is about equal rights for all, and sometimes that means giving people the freedom to be different (in their beliefs) rather than forcing everyone to be equal.

3: Explain why communism hates religion.

4: Explain why religion hates communism.

Thanks for all the feedback! This was really helpful. I took this all into account in my new draft.
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Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:28 am

Sensorland wrote:"The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably."
Haha, I love it :)

I do think option 3 can still use better justification, though, actually explaining the position rather than just quoting a tagline that is meaningless without context.

Option 4 is pretty unappealing, as the speaker is pretty obviously a corrupt individual who doesn't even believe what he preaches and just wants to use it to make money. While implying such corruption is certainly traditional in NationStates, I think the option'd be more likely to be chosen if the speaker at least pretends to have a more sympathetic motivation, though if you find it too hard to come up with one then I understand, there is a room for crazy options after all.

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Postby Sensorland » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:29 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Sensorland wrote:"The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably."
Haha, I love it :)

I do think option 3 can still use better justification, though, actually explaining the position rather than just quoting a tagline that is meaningless without context.

Option 4 is pretty unappealing, as the speaker is pretty obviously a corrupt individual who doesn't even believe what he preaches and just wants to use it to make money. While implying such corruption is certainly traditional in NationStates, I think the option'd be more likely to be chosen if the speaker at least pretends to have a more sympathetic motivation, though if you find it too hard to come up with one then I understand, there is a room for crazy options after all.

Thanks for all the help! I've taken this into consideration with my newest draft. I'm also now feeling a bit iffy about the effect lines. In truth, I don't think I'm the best at coming up with those punchlines. I think the one for option 4 is solid, but the others could be better.
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Postby Sacara » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:48 am

option 1 wrote:The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably.
I believe the quoted lines are in violation of player autonomy. @@FAITH@@ is a religion chosen by the player, so it can be whatever they want to be with whatever beliefs they chose to make it adhere to. In my case it makes more sense, as my nation is Roman Catholic, but would those lines in other religions? You can leave the lines about seizing the means of production because that’s the unreliable narrator coming in, but the first part seems like a jump to conclusions that @@FAITH@@ may not support.
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Postby Trotterdam » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:53 am

Sacara wrote:
option 1 wrote:The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably.
I believe the quoted lines are in violation of player autonomy. @@FAITH@@ is a religion chosen by the player, so it can be whatever they want to be with whatever beliefs they chose to make it adhere to. In my case it makes more sense, as my nation is Roman Catholic, but would those lines in other religions? You can leave the lines about seizing the means of production because that’s the unreliable narrator coming in, but the first part seems like a jump to conclusions that @@FAITH@@ may not support.
I understand your point, but I do think that, in this case, corners have to be cut - sometimes we have to assume something, and just accept that players whose nations won't cater to these assumptions will simply regard the speaker as an idiot and not choose that option. Besides, any nation that is both communist and theocratic probably has a religion that does have something along these lines, so it's not such an out-there assumption. It's also definitely true of many different real-life religions, even if not all of them.

Do you have any suggestion about how to "fix" the autonomy issue while leaving both the essence of the message and the humor intact?

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Postby The Yeetusa » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:57 am

Maybe you should add an option in what people who don't worship the religion disappears in church, or something like that.
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Postby Sensorland » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:26 am

Sacara wrote:
option 1 wrote:The teachings of @@FAITH@@ say riches are evil and that all men should help one another, and I think there's something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably.
I believe the quoted lines are in violation of player autonomy. @@FAITH@@ is a religion chosen by the player, so it can be whatever they want to be with whatever beliefs they chose to make it adhere to. In my case it makes more sense, as my nation is Roman Catholic, but would those lines in other religions? You can leave the lines about seizing the means of production because that’s the unreliable narrator coming in, but the first part seems like a jump to conclusions that @@FAITH@@ may not support.

I definitely get this, but at the same time, it's impossible to not make some assumptions sometimes. I've often gotten issues that mention something about my nation that goes against my personal lore - for instance, some issues bring up political parties. My national religion is "free thought", which in theory should be the same as no national religion, but of course the issues don't care about that, often portraying clergy, fundamentalists, etc. I don't think most players will mind.

The Yeetusa wrote:Maybe you should add an option in what people who don't worship the religion disappears in church, or something like that.

I'm not really interested in adding any more options in at this point.
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USS Monitor
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby USS Monitor » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:18 pm

Sensorland wrote:
Sacara wrote:I believe the quoted lines are in violation of player autonomy. @@FAITH@@ is a religion chosen by the player, so it can be whatever they want to be with whatever beliefs they chose to make it adhere to. In my case it makes more sense, as my nation is Roman Catholic, but would those lines in other religions? You can leave the lines about seizing the means of production because that’s the unreliable narrator coming in, but the first part seems like a jump to conclusions that @@FAITH@@ may not support.

I definitely get this, but at the same time, it's impossible to not make some assumptions sometimes. I've often gotten issues that mention something about my nation that goes against my personal lore - for instance, some issues bring up political parties. My national religion is "free thought", which in theory should be the same as no national religion, but of course the issues don't care about that, often portraying clergy, fundamentalists, etc. I don't think most players will mind.


It's stretching the limits of player autonomy, but it's a well-written line. If I was editing this draft, I don't think I'd change it on the first pass.
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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:40 pm

For this latest draft, I've cleaned up some things, including changing the effect lines of options 1-3. I'd like to get another round of feedback before I officially move this into last call phase and submit.
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Sensorland
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Postby Sensorland » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Okay, it's been a day and nobody has chimed in with anything else, so I'm putting this into last call. I'll be submitting in ~24 hours unless I have reason to believe I need to make more changes.
Last edited by Sensorland on Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Merconitonitopia » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:20 pm

Sensorland wrote:Okay, it's been a day and nobody has chimed in with anything else, so I'm putting this into last call. I'll be submitting in ~24 hours unless I have reason to believe I need to make more changes.

I have a more clever (in my opinion) effect line for the first option:
'Priests teach that prophesy foretold of a communist utopia.'

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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Merconitonitopia » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:49 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:You can't two contradictory forms of government. How have you even lasted this long?

My nation is a socialist theocratic monarchy. So, go figure.

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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:26 am

I'd recommend longer drafting periods generally.

I tend to go for 2-3 months myself, but I think anything from a 2-3 weeks upwards is a sensible minimum. It may be you'll not garner any further comment during that time, but its important to give people time to notice and respond to the thread.

I've not had a close look yet, but the first thing I'd note is that you need to replace all the curved quotes and apostrophes with straight ones. That is, ' and " instead of ’ and “. This is a just a nationstates thing - we always use straight quotes in issue code, and the game then curves them as needed. Always seems a bit pointless to me, but there it is.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ex-Nation

Postby Makdon » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:07 pm

Just a few small edits to wording and grammar. Corrections/recommendations in red
sent ripples throughout the socialist world
not technically wrong, but it feels more natural to me
something about seizing the means of production in there, too, probably
unnecessary comma
Choosing their own religious path will make them happier and more productive, and promote unity with our fellow socialist nations.
the 2 ands here are clunky, perhaps rephrase it as happier, more productive, and it'll promote unity. Also, throwing in something fun like "comrades in max" instead of socialist nations could be nice. Not important at all, but a nice touch perhaps.
citizens are never sure whether or not there will be a god when they wake up in the morning
this sentence isn't as smooth as it could be. Maybe try "citizens can't be sure if they'll be a god when the wake up in the morning"
option 4 seems to imply that there was once a capitalist state. Perhaps a violation of autonomy? Also:
so we’ll finally have free enterprise
this line doesn't make sense with the rest of the guys argument. Sure it's what he wants, but the he's not arguing for the good of capitalism, he's arguing for the good of faith.
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Sensorland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sensorland » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:30 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I'd recommend longer drafting periods generally.

I tend to go for 2-3 months myself, but I think anything from a 2-3 weeks upwards is a sensible minimum. It may be you'll not garner any further comment during that time, but its important to give people time to notice and respond to the thread.

I've not had a close look yet, but the first thing I'd note is that you need to replace all the curved quotes and apostrophes with straight ones. That is, ' and " instead of ’ and “. This is a just a nationstates thing - we always use straight quotes in issue code, and the game then curves them as needed. Always seems a bit pointless to me, but there it is.

Very good point. As for the curved quotes - that would be Google Docs' fault. I'll fix it.

Makdon wrote:Just a few small edits to wording and grammar. Corrections/recommendations in red
-snip-

Thank you! I'll keep this in mind for the next draft.
Sensorland of the West Pacific
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