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Should we criminalize arranged marriage?

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Rojava Free State
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Should we criminalize arranged marriage?

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:39 pm

Today I heard something that made me very crossed. Today in fact, I heard something that made my blood boil. It isn't often something truly offends me, and usually I find ideas I really don't agree with to be laughable and ignorant, but once in a while something legitimately makes me angry, and today was that day. I was at work and we were discussing a girl a friend of mine knows who's getting married. I asked her how old her friend was and she said she was 19, which is awfully young to be getting married. She then stated that the marriage had been arranged by her parents and her soon to be husband was 48 years old. Another coworker of mine stated that it was sad this young woman was being forced into a marriage by her family and that she would never be able to choose who she wanted to marry or spend her life with. She also related the story of a young Iraqi girl who used to work at our job who also was arranged married to a man, who was only 5 years older than her, but she has been depressed ever since.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think arranged marriage is an evil and primitive concept that shouldn't exist in america, or really anywhere now. It degrades women as property to be dealed off to a wealthy upstart man, and doesn't regard their own wishes. It in many ways is a form of slavery. I believe arranged marriage should be criminalized in the United States, and punished as either child abuse or criminal sexual conduct. We as a society should deny individuals the ability to force their daughters into such a horrid existence and punish said individuals should they try to circumvent the law. Many will say that different cultures have different practices which ought to be respected, but frankly I believe morality does not discriminate. Right is right and wrong is wrong regardless of what your culture thinks. Arranged marriage is an archaic, misogynistic tradition that shouldn't be allowed in a modern, liberal democracy. What are your thoughts NSers? Should we ban arranged marriage in america or allow it to occur? Do you live in a country that practices arranged marriage and/or have any experience with the practice? How can we protect the rights of young women in this nation from such a way of life? Should it be against the law or just very socially taboo? Let me know down below.
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:43 pm

Arranged marriages are criminalized, at least here in California.
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:45 pm

Marrying somebody without the consent of both involved should be illegal, yes.

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The Legion of Mankind
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Postby The Legion of Mankind » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:45 pm

Yeah it should be criminalized. Seems.... a bit primitive like you said.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:49 pm

The Legion of Mankind wrote:Yeah it should be criminalized. Seems.... a bit primitive like you said.


Apparently a lot of people from Kosovo are into it, although it should be stressed that younger generations and urban populations of Albanians are far less likely to be into arranged marriage than rural populations and older people. The girl who was married to a middle aged man was Kosovar Albanian
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Barfleur
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Postby Barfleur » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:49 pm

Albrenia wrote:Marrying somebody without the consent of both involved should be illegal, yes.

Amen. Make that written consent, too.
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Postby Salus Maior » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:50 pm

We'd have to define what "arranged marriage" is.

In certain cultural circles, arranged marriages are more like parents playing matchmaker, and still require consent by both parties to the match.
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Postby Estanglia » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:50 pm

Yes, absolutely.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:52 pm

Salus Maior wrote:We'd have to define what "arranged marriage" is.

In certain cultural circles, arranged marriages are more like parents playing matchmaker, and still require consent by both parties to the match.


My family used to do that and I guess that's fine, but promising your daughter to some guy when she's still 12 is...absolutely disgusting.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:54 pm

The concept of arranged marriages are a throwback to an era when marriages were more about attaining connections, evening out feuds, forging alliances, bringing powerful heirs into the world, etc. etc. In places where importance is still placed on tribes and clans (e.g Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Kyrgyzstan, etc.) arranging marriages years in advance, or even intertwining two people to be destined for each other at birth is a normal practice. Personally, I have a problem with it. It degrades women to being objects of power, and tools for producing alliances and children, and it strips the freedom of self-determination from both men and women.

Certainly, I don't believe such a practice should continue to exist in countries where such abhorrent norms of personal self-worth and of robbing young men and women of their futures is considered outdated and archaic. In respect to given traditional and religious beliefs however, if coercion is not a factor in the marriage being arranged, I believe it should be allowed. This is solely from a libertarian standpoint, as personally I vehemently oppose such a draconian practice. However, if there is any element of coercion on either side of the equation, where either party is not wholly free in their interpretation of this binding union, then the marriage should be forbidden, until such elements and pressures of coercion and force are no longer present.
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Postby Sao Nova Europa » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:56 pm

Depends. If the woman (or man) opposes the arranged marriage and does not consent to it (forced arranged marriage), it should not happen. Same goes for child arranged marriages, which should be illegal. If they are adult, have been consulted and do accept such an arranged marriage/don't have a deal with it though (consensual arranged marriage), I don't think the state should intervene or ban it.

Personally I do find it a distasteful practice but if it is consensual, it should not be illegal.
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Neo Kerala
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Postby Neo Kerala » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:58 pm

Depends what arranged means. In some families, arranged means something more like an interview process set up by the parents and the girl being the interviewer. The arranged marriage you're taking about should be very much illegal.

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Ard al Islam
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Postby Ard al Islam » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:58 pm

Where the hell should it be allowed? Nowhere, that's where. Sex requires consent; so should marriage.
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Postby A m e n r i a » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:58 pm

I don't think arranged marriages should be banned in degenerate nations. I think it should be banned everywhere around the world. It has nothing to do with upstart men, it's about letting women follow the voice of God through their hearts. Ironically, the people who support/practice arranged marriages are the far right, who claim themselves as "devout Muslims". Yea right, if they're so devout, why do they try to override God's right of choosing spouses for others?

TL;DR arranged marriages bad. Choosing your own spouses good. Allahu Akbar.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:59 pm

Yep, it's all about consent. If both parties involved are fully and freely consenting adults, then it's fine. If they are not, it's not.

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Ard al Islam
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Postby Ard al Islam » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:01 pm

When we say "arranged marriage," I assume we're referring to marriages where one of the parties does not wish to get married to the other, correct? That's different; that's forced marriage. If your parents pick a spouse for you and you actually want to marry them, that's great. But if they force you to marry someone you don't wanna marry? Yeah, no.
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Should we criminalize arranged marriage?

Postby Deacarsia » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm

Ard al Islam wrote:When we say "arranged marriage," I assume we're referring to marriages where one of the parties does not wish to get married to the other, correct? That's different; that's forced marriage. If your parents pick a spouse for you and you actually want to marry them, that's great. But if they force you to marry someone you don't wanna marry? Yeah, no.

I do not see anything necessarily wrong with an arranged marriage, but a forced marriage clearly is wrong. Marriage requires consent.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:11 pm

Deacarsia wrote:
Ard al Islam wrote:When we say "arranged marriage," I assume we're referring to marriages where one of the parties does not wish to get married to the other, correct? That's different; that's forced marriage. If your parents pick a spouse for you and you actually want to marry them, that's great. But if they force you to marry someone you don't wanna marry? Yeah, no.

I do not see anything necessarily wrong with an arranged marriage, but a forced marriage clearly is wrong. Marriage requires consent.


In too many cultures, no one has found out yet that women are indeed human beings with feelings.
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The Legion of Mankind
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Postby The Legion of Mankind » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:13 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
The Legion of Mankind wrote:Yeah it should be criminalized. Seems.... a bit primitive like you said.


Apparently a lot of people from Kosovo are into it, although it should be stressed that younger generations and urban populations of Albanians are far less likely to be into arranged marriage than rural populations and older people. The girl who was married to a middle aged man was Kosovar Albanian

Oof seems tough.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:17 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:The concept of arranged marriages are a throwback to an era when marriages were more about attaining connections, evening out feuds, forging alliances, bringing powerful heirs into the world, etc. etc. In places where importance is still placed on tribes and clans (e.g Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Kyrgyzstan, etc.) arranging marriages years in advance, or even intertwining two people to be destined for each other at birth is a normal practice. Personally, I have a problem with it. It degrades women to being objects of power, and tools for producing alliances and children, and it strips the freedom of self-determination from both men and women.

Certainly, I don't believe such a practice should continue to exist in countries where such abhorrent norms of personal self-worth and of robbing young men and women of their futures is considered outdated and archaic. In respect to given traditional and religious beliefs however, if coercion is not a factor in the marriage being arranged, I believe it should be allowed. This is solely from a libertarian standpoint, as personally I vehemently oppose such a draconian practice. However, if there is any element of coercion on either side of the equation, where either party is not wholly free in their interpretation of this binding union, then the marriage should be forbidden, until such elements and pressures of coercion and force are no longer present.


As a libertarian I believe in maximizing freedom but only till it encroaches on another's. Women have a right to decide when and who they wanna marry. A 19 year old girl should be in college and forwarding her career, not being condemned to a life of servitude. I pity the culture that believes its women should be slaves to men, whether it's their fathers or husbands. I hope that within a generation, 100% of the descendants of kosovar refugees and others cast out arranged marriage and live their lives free, choosing who they'll be with
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:20 pm

The Legion of Mankind wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Apparently a lot of people from Kosovo are into it, although it should be stressed that younger generations and urban populations of Albanians are far less likely to be into arranged marriage than rural populations and older people. The girl who was married to a middle aged man was Kosovar Albanian

Oof seems tough.


Imagine her parents telling some random white guy that they're the proud parents of a soon to be married daughter and when he asks who she's marrying, they say "he is great rich 48 year old man, and has big house." Watch them get offended when the random white guy (or black dude or Latino or whoever else it is who isn't Kosovar and doesn't come from a background where this is common) say they're sick fucks for marrying their teen daughter off to some weird dude.

Seriously who the hell is 48 and marries a 19 year old? And if they planned this for a few years, it means Prishtina's Jared Foggle had the hots for her when she was 16 or 17. Literally ew.
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Outer Solar System
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Postby Outer Solar System » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:23 pm

I guess I'll go ahead and be the devils advocate here.

I think arranged marriages should be the norm (and in my NS nation they are).

Love in the romantic sense is a commodified product. To our ancestors, marriage had a absolutely nothing to do with love, it was a practical arrangement. Even for putting familial ties aside, two people would marry to raise a family, support themselves, ensure they would have children to take care of them in their old age, etc. Arranged marriages were the norm because a woman's father knew all the men in their area, and he would have the maturity and intelligence to pick the best possible mate for his child, with money and personality both being important. The Man he would pick for his daughter to marry would often share the same values and social customs as the fathers family, thus furthering social cohesion as well.

Humans have a pair bonding mechanism, like many mammals, but it works best if a person has a single mate. If you dont believe me, look up divorce rates by number of partners over a person's life. The more partners a person has, the harder it is for them to stay with one person. This goes for both women and men, in case you think I'm being sexist. In the modern age, divorce is normal in 75%+ of marriages, and marriages themselves are down by more than 35%. The institution of marriage itself is dying because people are so used to switching partners constantly, and no one knows what it's like to actually be in love anymore, because companies have sold us a lie about how a person can have casual relationships AND a soul mate at the end of the day.

The sad truth is that a person only has 1-2 chances at "true" love, and you are more likely to find that with an arranged marriage than otherwise.

In summary, I think that arranged marriages are not about a fathers control over his daughter, she is not her fathers property and no father ever truly feels that way. Arranged marriages are PROTECTION against bad mates or poor self control on the daughters part. Arranged marriages should be the norm, along with formal courtship in place of casual sex and dating. This should also be paired with social stigma against both adultery and divorce.

Anything less and the institution of marriage and the foundation of the family unit will continue to degrade until people no longer love eachother at all, and babies are born in a factory.

We are headed down the road to Brave New World and it scares the hell out of me that everyone just goes along with it.
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Postby Kowani » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:25 pm

I don’t really like the concept of marriage as a whole-but if we are going to have them, then they shall not be arranged.
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Postby Totally Not OEP » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:25 pm

Underage marriages should definitely be criminalized but I don't see any reason to ban the institution as a whole. It has resulted in just as many happy marriages as otherwise and has an insanely low divorce rate.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:26 pm

Totally Not OEP wrote:Underage marriages should definitely be criminalized but I don't see any reason to ban the institution as a whole. It has resulted in just as many happy marriages as otherwise and has an insanely low divorce rate.


#1 you can't be happy when your parents force you to be with someone

#2 divorce rates are low because said cultures don't allow it
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