Condemn the Civil Defence Siren [Discarded]

[Novae Romae]

The CDS has proven to be a quite controversial service throughout its lifespan. Many believe (like myself) that it should be condemned for it's actions, and vice versa. There have been around 3 proposals doing the same, however, neither of them are specific enough to support the proposal. I hope that, with the citation of specific examples of the CDS's effects, we can finally condemn the service for its actions, purposeful or otherwise.

Anyways, you know what they say, third time is the charm! Unless i'm wrong and it's the 4th time in which case my joke is no longer funny.

The Security Council,

Accepting that Nazism and Fascism are abhorrent ideologies that should be combated responsibly at every point.

Acknowledging that such attempts to combat these ideologies have been taken, most notably through warnings by the Civil Defence Siren, a service run jointly by the Pacific regions.

Disturbed that this service, whilst not straying from it's purpose of warning new players of fascist regions, has been used to target regions which have no relations to Fascism/Nazism themselves.

Citing the following as examples for the aforementioned:

1. Redlandia, a region formerly on the list of the Civil Defence Siren, even with no actual Fascist/Nazi views themselves, was forced to relocate and defend themselves from false accusations of supporting those ideologies, with the primary cause being the listing of the region on the service's list.
2. 13 regions listed by the Civil Defence Siren are either self-proclaimed as anti-fascist, populated by 6 or less members, under the control of Antifa or Antifa-associated powers, or all three.
3. The service lists no reasons for the placement or removal of regions from the list.

Recognizing that these facts lead to raiding and occupation of regions which are themselves not fascist but have been deemed so unilaterally by the Civil Defence Siren.

Dismayed that this service has been accountable only to the regions who run it, and that no warning or appeals process is given to the regions listed in by the service.

Confident that this resolution will serve as accountability by the international community on an unchecked service.

Hereby condemns Civil Defence Siren

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

For 4th Clause a) the forum link to the Redlandia thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=461777&hilit=Civil+Defence+Siren

For 4th Clause c) the link to the CDS factbook itself: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1081644

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

You made a joke? Oh yes, just read the draft. Against.

[Novae Romae]

You made a joke? Oh yes, just read the draft. Against.

Interesting how proposals you're against are treated with such disrespect yet ones you like are not.

[Kuriko]

Redlandia had to relocate to protect itself because it's founder got mod deleted, not because of the CDS. Having fascist embassies made it a target, and even without those it would have gotten hit sooner or later regardless. Against.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

You made a joke? Oh yes, just read the draft. Against.

Interesting how proposals you're against are treated with such disrespect yet ones you like are not.

Nothing strange - like many right-minded people I will always disrespect fascists and apologists for fascists.

[South Reinkalistan]

I'm just gonna hide here while NR (someone with much more patience and commitment to drafting things like this than me) has to draw all the flak for promoting a different viewpoint once in a while. BBD, why do you have to be so dismissive and rude again? It's a common trait of Pacifican delegates, I know, but it's not necessarily in their rulebook. Stop calling NR a fascist apologist; he really isn't.

Considering the CDS is mainly just a way for the Pacifics to back-scratch, I like this proposal!

[Novae Romae]

Redlandia had to relocate to protect itself because it's founder got mod deleted, not because of the CDS. Having fascist embassies made it a target, and even without those it would have gotten hit sooner or later regardless. Against.

The CDS' list with Redlandia on it made it a target, anti-fascist regions would see it, and then they moved. Either way, having embassies, accidental or otherwise, with regions on that list, especially when you're unaware of it's existence, shouldn't make you a target, especially when you're not fascist yourself. And these regions have no way to appeal their placement on the list, and there is no accountability for the service other than the pacifics, which themselves get raided, although the CDS probably is separate from each Pacific Coup. This is meant as accountability for an unaccountable service.

[Novae Romae]

Interesting how proposals you're against are treated with such disrespect yet ones you like are not.

Nothing strange - like many right-minded people I will always disrespect fascists and apologists for fascists.

I am assuming you did not call me a fascist apologist and were instead referring to actual fascist and their apologists.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Nothing strange - like many right-minded people I will always disrespect fascists and apologists for fascists.

I am assuming you did not call me a fascist apologist and were instead referring to actual fascist and their apologists.

Assume what you like, but when someone’s first couple of SC proposals are in support of fascists and fascist regions, well certain conclusions are going to be drawn.

[Novae Romae]

I am assuming you did not call me a fascist apologist and were instead referring to actual fascist and their apologists.

Assume what you like, but when someone’s first couple of SC proposals are in support of fascists and fascist regions, well certain conclusions are going to be drawn.

You have made the wrong conclusion then. I am NOT fascist/Nazi nor a sympathizer thereof and I will never support ideologies that want me dead or want my freedoms restricted. This proposal is not meant to help fascists, but rather, to defend those who could be unjustly accused of it by an unaccountable service. This proposal serves as a warning of sorts, that greater care must be taken in regards to these types of things.

In fact, this is exactly what I'm talking about, and what others are talking about. You made no attempt to actually prove that I'm fascist, which I'm not, and instead made a conclusion based on 2, TWO PROPOSALS, that are not even about fascism, the former being strictly technical and the latter being about protecting innocents. You have ignored the proposal, saw it said condemn the CDS, and made your opinion right then and their, and closed your mind, but before doing that, you decided to imply that I, I of all people, was fascist or a fascist sympathizer.

Then, you also insulted it and acted disrespectful by calling it a joke. That's not right, everyone should be treated with respect unless they don't treat you with respect, that's called the golden rule, and everyone should've learned it in elementary school. Regardless of opinions or beliefs, treat people as you want to be treated. It's been proven that by simply having discourse with people, instead of acting belligerent or even violent, changes people's minds, and no, not temporarily, permanently. https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/54486193 ... heir-robes this article should give some credence to that. Closed minds don't open doors.

So in conclusion, don't act rude, and don't act disrespectful just because you don't like something, and no, a condemn CDS proposal is not enough for someone to be called a Fascist/Nazi, a Fascist/Nazi sympathizer, or anything of the sort.

[South Reinkalistan]

I am assuming you did not call me a fascist apologist and were instead referring to actual fascist and their apologists.

Assume what you like, but when someone’s first couple of SC proposals are in support of fascists and fascist regions, well certain conclusions are going to be drawn.

> fascist regions

> Banning someone for hate speech
> 'Fascism'

Pick one.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Assume what you like, but when someone’s first couple of SC proposals are in support of fascists and fascist regions, well certain conclusions are going to be drawn.

> fascist regions

> Banning someone for hate speech
> 'Fascism'

Pick one.

How about picking the option of a Founder with a less than stellar Moderation record making sure they keep their nose clean.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

• Axis of Storms - tagged as fascist
• Committees for Promotion of Integralism - tagged as fascist
• Despotic Europe - a few embassies with fascist regions in contradiction to their anti-fascist tag
• Free American Empire - held by Antifa
• Heiliger Bund - tagged as fascist
• Imperial Catholic Alliance - tagged as fascist
• International Fascist Federation - held by TRF
• New World Order of Fascism - name's a bit of a giveaway
• The Holy Reich of Bunicken - embassies with fascist regions
• The Holy Reich of Greater Germania - embassies with fascist regions
• The Imperium of Man - embassies with fascist regions
• The Iron Confederacy - now held by Antifa
• The Wasteland Frontier - tagged as fascist

So the 13 regions you gave for evidence to support your claim in Clause 4(b), only one is tagged as ant-fascist but still maintains links with fascist regions. Six are self-proclaimed fascist regions either by name or tag. Three are not tagged fascist, but maintain embassy links with fascist regions. The remaining three are held by Antifa/The Red Fleet.

The fact that the populations in these regions is low is hopefully a consequence of the work of CDS - and if you were serious about the first clause of your proposal you would be commending CDS for their sterling work.

[South Reinkalistan]

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

• Axis of Storms - tagged as fascist
• Committees for Promotion of Integralism - tagged as fascist
• Despotic Europe - a few embassies with fascist regions in contradiction to their anti-fascist tag
• Free American Empire - held by Antifa
• Heiliger Bund - tagged as fascist
• Imperial Catholic Alliance - tagged as fascist
• International Fascist Federation - held by TRF
• New World Order of Fascism - name's a bit of a giveaway
• The Holy Reich of Bunicken - embassies with fascist regions
• The Holy Reich of Greater Germania - embassies with fascist regions
• The Imperium of Man - embassies with fascist regions
• The Iron Confederacy - now held by Antifa
• The Wasteland Frontier - tagged as fascist

So the 13 regions you gave for evidence to support your claim in Clause 4(b), only one is tagged as ant-fascist but still maintains links with fascist regions. Six are self-proclaimed fascist regions either by name or tag. Three are not tagged fascist, but maintain embassy links with fascist regions. The remaining three are held by Antifa/The Red Fleet.

The fact that the populations in these regions is low is hopefully a consequence of the work of CDS - and if you were serious about the first clause of your proposal you would be commending CDS for their sterling work.

Heck, not even I'm sure what NR was on when he wrote this, but I think embassies with fascist regions doesn't necessarily mean fascist.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Perhaps then not condemning the service but the individuals that were in the wrong, like McCarthy

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

• Axis of Storms - tagged as fascist
• Committees for Promotion of Integralism - tagged as fascist
• Despotic Europe - a few embassies with fascist regions in contradiction to their anti-fascist tag
• Free American Empire - held by Antifa
• Heiliger Bund - tagged as fascist
• Imperial Catholic Alliance - tagged as fascist
• International Fascist Federation - held by TRF
• New World Order of Fascism - name's a bit of a giveaway
• The Holy Reich of Bunicken - embassies with fascist regions
• The Holy Reich of Greater Germania - embassies with fascist regions
• The Imperium of Man - embassies with fascist regions
• The Iron Confederacy - now held by Antifa
• The Wasteland Frontier - tagged as fascist

So the 13 regions you gave for evidence to support your claim in Clause 4(b), only one is tagged as ant-fascist but still maintains links with fascist regions. Six are self-proclaimed fascist regions either by name or tag. Three are not tagged fascist, but maintain embassy links with fascist regions. The remaining three are held by Antifa/The Red Fleet.

The fact that the populations in these regions is low is hopefully a consequence of the work of CDS - and if you were serious about the first clause of your proposal you would be commending CDS for their sterling work.

Can you commend and condem someone at the same time ?

[Bormiar]

Can you commend and condem someone at the same time ?

Yes and no. While it is technically possible to give any one nation as many commendation and condemnations as the SC wants, there is no ”commendemnation” badge.

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

Perhaps that would be a (while comical, also historical) solution

Condem for the bad and commend for the good

[Kranostav]

Okay wow there is a lot to unpack here in your replies, however two things for right now.

1. Embassies are not accidental, you literally have to accept them manually. It is in your best interest to see who you share embassies with as you will be associated with them to some extent (varies)

2. Declaring you are anti-fash, does in fact, not make you anti-fash. Actions speak a whole hell of a lot louder than words. The CDS targets are not an arbitrary list, you (the region) had to show repeated and public signs.

The list is updated as needed to reflect when a region has been captured or otherwise destroyed by anti-fash forces. I'll personally review the list to make sure. But let me assure you the list has never been used to explicitly target any region that wasn't promoting, harboring, or otherwise providing a space for fascism (and any other derivate of such).

[McMasterdonia]

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

• Axis of Storms - tagged as fascist
• Committees for Promotion of Integralism - tagged as fascist
• Despotic Europe - a few embassies with fascist regions in contradiction to their anti-fascist tag
• Free American Empire - held by Antifa
• Heiliger Bund - tagged as fascist
• Imperial Catholic Alliance - tagged as fascist
• International Fascist Federation - held by TRF
• New World Order of Fascism - name's a bit of a giveaway
• The Holy Reich of Bunicken - embassies with fascist regions
• The Holy Reich of Greater Germania - embassies with fascist regions
• The Imperium of Man - embassies with fascist regions
• The Iron Confederacy - now held by Antifa
• The Wasteland Frontier - tagged as fascist

So the 13 regions you gave for evidence to support your claim in Clause 4(b), only one is tagged as ant-fascist but still maintains links with fascist regions. Six are self-proclaimed fascist regions either by name or tag. Three are not tagged fascist, but maintain embassy links with fascist regions. The remaining three are held by Antifa/The Red Fleet.

The fact that the populations in these regions is low is hopefully a consequence of the work of CDS - and if you were serious about the first clause of your proposal you would be commending CDS for their sterling work.

Excellent BBD, couldn't have said it better myself.

This proposal is doomed to fail, just as the last proposal has been withdrawn, I expect this one will be too.

[South Reinkalistan]

Okay wow there is a lot to unpack here in your replies, however two things for right now.

1. Embassies are not accidental, you literally have to accept them manually. It is in your best interest to see who you share embassies with as you will be associated with them to some extent (varies)

2. Declaring you are anti-fash, does in fact, not make you anti-fash. Actions speak a whole hell of a lot louder than words. The CDS targets are not an arbitrary list, you (the region) had to show repeated and public signs.

The list is updated as needed to reflect when a region has been captured or otherwise destroyed by anti-fash forces. I'll personally review the list to make sure. But let me assure you the list has never been used to explicitly target any region that wasn't promoting, harboring, or otherwise providing a space for fascism (and any other derivate of such).

Embassies aren't accidental, you are quite correct. You are also correct in how you say that the extent to which you will be associated with embassy regions varies. Except the extent to which this varies, it is fair to say, is very wide. I expect you know as well as I do that regions having 100+ embassies aren't going to maintain in-depth contact with all of them simultaneously. If we're to look at an example, the CCD's foreign policy is, if I recall correctly, to accept embassies from dictatorial regions, not just 'fashy' regions. A lot of regions open embassies for the sake of opening embassies. Because they seem to see something you do not. Embassies are just a single group of letters on the region page. A lot of the time, they mean nothing.

Of course, declaring that you are anti-fascist doesn't make you anti-fascist. I cannot fault your words there. Actions do indeed speak louder than words, my good friend. And indeed, the CDS isn't an arbitrary list. I'm in no way accusing you of haphazardly cobbling together a list. You clearly have undergone great efforts to create such a system, which is commendable. I have no qualms with the premise of the Civil Defence Siren. What I have an issue with is how it is operated and generally functions in practice. Personally, the Pacifican monopoly is my main concern. It's operated by the Pacifics, as stated by the CDS' factbook, meaning that it falls to the whim of the few to deliver a verdict. I have, in the past, provided a lot of evidence for the CCD in particular to not be fascist. But these claims are dismissed by those who have power over the CDS.

But I cannot abide by this statement:

"But let me assure you the list has never been used to explicitly target any region that wasn't promoting, harboring, or otherwise providing a space for fascism (and any other derivate of such)."

I come from one of the regions targeted; I can say that it doesn't promote, harbour, or provide a space for fascism. Take it from the person in this region.

[Lord Dominator]

Can you commend and condem someone at the same time ?

Yes and no. While it is technically possible to give any one nation as many commendation and condemnations as the SC wants, there is no ”commendemnation” badge.

Additionally, the actions need to be different as you can not Commend/Condemn for actions already Commended/Condemned.

[Novae Romae]

Some context for the claims listed in the proposal:

For 4th Clause b) the regions are: Axis of Storms, Committees for Promotion of Integralism, Despotic Europe, Free American Empire, Heiliger Bund, Imperial Catholic Alliance, International Fascist Federation, New World Order of Fascism, The Holy Reich of Bunicken, The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, The Imperium of Man, The Iron Confederacy, The Wasteland Frontier.

• Axis of Storms - tagged as fascist
• Committees for Promotion of Integralism - tagged as fascist
• Despotic Europe - a few embassies with fascist regions in contradiction to their anti-fascist tag
• Free American Empire - held by Antifa
• Heiliger Bund - tagged as fascist
• Imperial Catholic Alliance - tagged as fascist
• International Fascist Federation - held by TRF
• New World Order of Fascism - name's a bit of a giveaway
• The Holy Reich of Bunicken - embassies with fascist regions
• The Holy Reich of Greater Germania - embassies with fascist regions
• The Imperium of Man - embassies with fascist regions
• The Iron Confederacy - now held by Antifa
• The Wasteland Frontier - tagged as fascist

So the 13 regions you gave for evidence to support your claim in Clause 4(b), only one is tagged as ant-fascist but still maintains links with fascist regions. Six are self-proclaimed fascist regions either by name or tag. Three are not tagged fascist, but maintain embassy links with fascist regions. The remaining three are held by Antifa/The Red Fleet.

The fact that the populations in these regions is low is hopefully a consequence of the work of CDS - and if you were serious about the first clause of your proposal you would be commending CDS for their sterling work.

Let me iterate why I listed those regions on as context for Clause 4b, as I admittedly forgot to give an in depth detail into each and every one of those, a mistake I shall rectify now.

Axis of Storms is indeed tagged as fascist and maintains embassies with fascist-associated regions (the latter of which, the embassies in general, I will touch on further later in this post). However, something was conveniently left out of that description, something which will be repeated. That something, was that Axis of Storms has one member, and one member alone, and has been that way since November 8 of this year. Why a region, with one member, is listed on the Civil Defence Siren, is beyond me. Well, actually, no it's not, I understand that the fascist tag is a reason regions are placed on that list. It is interesting then, that this logic is not used and applied to put ALL fascist tagged regions on the list. After all, all fascist regions are a threat, are they not? Or is this specifically applied to the ones the CDS finds a threat, and if so, how is that determined?

The Committees for Promotion of Integralism has the same context as Axis of Storms, with one interesting difference. It's password protected. Further, not only is it password protected, meaning no new players are getting in the region unless through going out of their way to telegram this tiny region's founder, it's RMB has been inactive for around 43 days now as of the writing of this post. Again, one has to wonder, why this region is chosen to be listed on the CDS instead of other, non-password protected, active regions are tagged fascist and maintain fascist embassies. We are given no reasoning to this other than "It's tagged fascist, they're fascist, end of discussion." Oh, and the occasional, "they are fascist regardless of their tags, since they maintain embassies with fascist regions", a point I'll go into later as previously stated.

Despotic Europe, placed on the list for fascist embassies. Defer to the embassy response below.

Free American Empire, held by Antifa. This is one of three regions here held by Antifa, and brings up an interesting question, why haven't they been removed from the list? This region is clearly not fascist, nor does it have any hope to return to being such, after all, it's held by an Anti-Fascist organization, and I doubt Antifa of all people would be willing to allow this region, despite it's size, to slip back into it's old ways. In fact, as I look at the region page whilst writing this, I noticed that it's password protected as well! Again, I ask, exasperated by this trend, why is this region still listed on the CDS when it clearly is not active, nor fascist, nor poses any threat to impressionable new players, nor even allows new players to enter in the first place?

Heiliger Bund, tagged fascist and...that's it. No fascist embassies, no Nazi rmb, in fact, the RMB is quite short and inactive, with the last post being made over a year ago. Once more, why are these regions being listed on the CDS instead of others? It's not active enough to provide fascist recruitment, it's not Nazi enough to lure players, nor is it big enough to do the latter anyways, it has no embassies to recruit from, yet this dead region is a threat worthy to be placed on the CDS' list?

Imperial Catholic Alliance has been tagged fascist, yes, but, here we go again for like what, the fourth time now? It has no active RMB, it's password protected, and to top it all off, it's even merged with another region, rendering this region basically dead in perpetuity. Why is this region listed on the CDS instead of others?

International Fascist Federation is occupied by the Red Fleet. So, let me repeat that. It is occupied...by the Red Fleet...interesting. The Red Fleet is an Anti-Fascist organization as well, associated with Antifa, and actually participated with them in a previous region's occupation, the Free American Empire. However, let me get back to the point, and pose this, why is the region listed on the CDS when it clearly poses no threat? I doubt the Red Fleet or Antifa are Fascist supporters, so it's not like they're going to hand this region over anytime soon.

New World Order of Fascism, and yes, the name is indeed a giveaway. Just like it's a giveaway, with one simple look at the region, that it too is occupied by Anti-Fascist (though not the organization Antifa itself) powers. An Anti-Fascist occupied region is on this list because of...? The name? If so, one simple look at the region would turn any player away from joining it, either by themselves or being banjected from the occupation force. Therefore, a warning by the CDS really isn't needed, is it?

The Holy Reich of Bunicken has fascist embassies, defer to embassy argument below. But something to note here, is that only 7 members are in the region.

The Holy Reich of Greater Germania, same thing as before, defer to embassy argument below. Again though, this region doesn't exactly have a fascist bent to it, looking through the RMB I see no Nazism or Fascism thoughts or ideas posed to it, so, I wonder why this region is considered a threat to new players for the actions of other embassies, which, whilst allowed to post there, seldom have, with the posts only really being roleplay related. And by roleplay I mean military, not fascist.

The Imperium of Man is an inactive region, again refer to the embassy argument below.

The Iron Confederacy is occupied by Antifa, password protected, even has a nice little LGBT on it like a bow, really don't see how this is a threat to new players requiring telegrams to be sent to them?

The Wasteland Frontier. One nation, no RMB posts, don't see how this is worthy of the CDS when there are hundreds of fascist regions with one nation in them. An interesting note, the founder, while self-identifying with far right-wing beliefs, has even called out someone's transphobia. Credit where credit is due I guess.

Okay wow there is a lot to unpack here in your replies, however two things for right now.

1. Embassies are not accidental, you literally have to accept them manually. It is in your best interest to see who you share embassies with as you will be associated with them to some extent (varies)

2. Declaring you are anti-fash, does in fact, not make you anti-fash. Actions speak a whole hell of a lot louder than words. The CDS targets are not an arbitrary list, you (the region) had to show repeated and public signs.

The list is updated as needed to reflect when a region has been captured or otherwise destroyed by anti-fash forces. I'll personally review the list to make sure. But let me assure you the list has never been used to explicitly target any region that wasn't promoting, harboring, or otherwise providing a space for fascism (and any other derivate of such).

Embassies are, indeed, purposeful. They must be accepted by a region personally for them to form. This is fact, we all know it. And it is indeed within your best interests to review these embassies before accepting them, after all, they do reflect on your region. So then, if a region can be called Fascist for having Fascist embassies, can a region be called Communist for having communist embassies? Can a region, even though it tags itself anti-communist, be labeled communist for this embassy? Can a region tagged as x be labeled as y for it's embassy? The embassy argument is one in which presumes the following: that a) you support that ideology and b) you know the extent to which the region supports the ideology. I, as well as anyone else, can set up an embassy with a communist region, label myself capitalist, and still be a capitalist. It doesn't mean I support communist, just that I have felt that region is sufficient in receiving an embassy with mine.

Defer back to the top for reasons as to why the latter part of 2. is a bit off. Actions do speak louder than words. But words are often calls for action itself. A speech can ultimately lead to war, a document can lead to great liberation for oppressed peoples, a discourse can lead to the changing of minds. Declaring you are Anti-Fascist does and does not make you Anti-Fascist, within reason. Let me explain. If Mussolini declared he was no longer fascist but then proceeded to continue fascist policies, he is of course, still fascist. If someone renounces the ideology and declares themselves anti-fascist and fully commits to avoiding Fascist, actions, by themselves that is, not speaking on the behalf of others, then they are anti-fascist.

As i've shown before, the list is not updated to reflect when a region is captured or destroyed by anti-fascist forces. It is updated though, that is for sure, I've seen the "edited: x hours ago" before while looking at the CDS list to prepare this proposal. I just don't understand why these regions weren't taken down from the list though. I do hope that the CDS operators will answer this however, as I assume they will defend their service to the utmost-

Excellent BBD, couldn't have said it better myself.

This proposal is doomed to fail, just as the last proposal has been withdrawn, I expect this one will be too.

Oh, never mind. I guess we will continue bad faith arguing and continued snarkiness as has been shown repeatedly in this council before. Instead of actually listening to the community, the CDS has ignored it. In fact, McMasterdonia, I took the offer of the CDS' question link, you know, the one where it lists you as the one to telegram for questions. And I did telegram you, and I telegramed the CDS for good measure as well, and have gotten no response since. But, I understand, we all have things to do, and I quite frankly don't expect a response anytime soon, or at all for that matter, and no, that's not meant to sound rude, I apologize if it does.

Oh, one final thing. I am serious about the first clause. I do believe that Fascism and Nazism are abhorrent ideologies that have caused the deaths of millions of innocent people, and should of course be treated with caution when approaching them. However, like you've done before, you ignored a point I was trying to make about converting, rather than bashing. See, a lot of people don't realize this, but you can actually convert many extremist, especially hate-related ones, by simply talking to them, and showing them that their hate is unfounded. An example of this is the famous Daryl Davis, who convinced 200 KKK members to leave and renounce their hate towards non-whites. He did this not by threatening them, not by harrassing them, none of those things, you know why? Because if he did it'd only strengthen the KKK's views, not limit them. Imagine, you hate black people, and now a black person is attacking you, would that not solidify your views that they're out to get you? Daryl knew this, and instead, decided on a different approach, of discourse. By sitting down, acting cordial, hell, even making friends with them, he showed them that their hate was unfounded. Through discourse, not by further hate, was how he was able to turn these KKK members away from their robes and into tolerance. And the same has been done with Fascist and Far-Right people, in the exact same way.

So instead of fighting hate with hate, fight it with, and this is cliche, but fight it with love, tolerance. Because remember, you don't save a burning building by giving it more flames, just like you don't fuel intolerance by forcing them into a corner where their beliefs are hardened and not softened.

[Asurmenia]

I forgot whenever I have been granted the task of answering a question, which by my observation, does not exist?

[Blood Wine]

Oh wait, you're serious