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Rich athletes, celebs & businessmen do deserve their money.

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Petrolheadia
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Rich athletes, celebs & businessmen do deserve their money.

Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:32 am

I often find people saying things to the effect of "why should x be getting so much money, when y get so little?" or "do x really work z times more?"? Well, I believe that there are legitimate reasons for such sums to be earned.

First of all, despite what internet commenters can tell you, those guys actually respond to actual needs. In case of celebrities and athletes is the need is their fans' leisure, which is an important part of life. And while the employees of companies may have the practical knowledge of their industry, the theoretical one is necessary, and some people are gonna possess it to a far better degree, one that can put them in a management position.

Second - and maybe more importantly - when you see the scale of what they do, the figures will make much more sense.

Suppose the CEO of General Motors only got ten dollars from each car sold. In that case, she would get a significant raise.
Then suppose General Motors assembly employees would get ten dollars per car sold. In that case, they would have to learn how to live at about 30 cents per manhour.

Or that Premier League players got 50% of what the clubs earn on their games, and 5 pounds off each match attendance. In that case, they would still get around five million pounds a year, and that's assuming no merchandise, licensing, etc. deals.

And when it comes to billionaires like Jeff Bezos, their wealth comes from what they managed to get when their decisions concerning the running of their companies increased stock prices. And even that wealth is usually a fraction of total company value - for exampleMr. Bezos owns less than an eight of Amazon, and got the 100% off an investment of just $300k.
And before anyone says anything about the workers of Amazon - what makes the company they work for be a booming player, not just another market failure? Do they somehow become better when they join Amazon ranks?

So I believe that such rich people do deserve their wealth. They put in valuable labor, and did it on a scale that justifies such payout.

And what do you think about it, NSG?
Last edited by Petrolheadia on Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:38 am

I think everyone in society still should be able to get by and money shouldn't influence our governments policies or how our justice system functions
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:40 am

Rojava Free State wrote:I think everyone in society still should be able to get by and money shouldn't influence our governments policies or how our justice system functions

I also don't value money that much. But I have no problem with those who do.

As for the influence of money on government - yeah, we need less of that. Maybe even restrictions of donations and court spending in order to stop cronyism.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:40 am

Deserve ? Yes.
Is it desireable that they get what they deserve ? Debateable.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:43 am

The Alma Mater wrote:Deserve ? Yes.
Is it desireable that they get what they deserve ? Debateable.

What do you mean by "desirable"?

I don't think I would explictly desire wealth earned by another man.
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:53 am

I've read somewhere that in 1950s America (sic!) there used to be absurdly high income taxes at the upper ends. The details escape me however.
Last edited by Nakena on Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:56 am

Whether anyone deserves their money or not usually isn't so clear cut. I'd say its yes and no.

Capitalism doesn't really care about who deserves what, the income you get only reflects the value you happen to bring to the market, it doesn't say anything about you as a person.

If we're taking Jeff Bezos as one example, its true that he indirectly drove some competitors out of business or did lots of tax avoidance, which might be seen as bad or unethical in terms of him aspiring to become a monopolist. But on the other hand, he deserves his money in the sense that no one else happened to come up with the idea for Amazon and execute on it as well as he did, so he clearly changed the world and made an impact.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:57 am

Nakena wrote:I've read somewhere that in 1950s America (sic!) there used to be absurdly high income taxes at the upper ends. The details escape me however.

Top rate was 91% at one point, but basically no one paid it.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:59 am

Galloism wrote:
Nakena wrote:I've read somewhere that in 1950s America (sic!) there used to be absurdly high income taxes at the upper ends. The details escape me however.

Top rate was 91% at one point, but basically no one paid it.

Laffer's curve is a tough bitch.
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:59 am

I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.
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Postby Galloism » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:00 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
Galloism wrote:Top rate was 91% at one point, but basically no one paid it.

Laffer's curve is a tough bitch.

Yeah. Notably a curve, not a line with infinite income at 0% tax.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:00 pm

Ifreann wrote:I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.

Why is it a problem? Jealousy? Unwillingness to do own work?
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
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We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Postby Gagium » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:03 pm

Ifreann wrote:I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.

But you are "interested in what people deserve" if you want wealth redistribution so the poorer have more.
E

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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:05 pm

What labor have they put in?
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:08 pm

Gagium wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.

But you are "interested in what people deserve" if you want wealth redistribution so the poorer have more.

The money equivalent of "Have I told you how much I am over my ex?"
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:08 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:What labor have they put in?

Work isn't just blue-collar, y'know.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
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Where you can talk about cars!
"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:10 pm

Galloism wrote:
Nakena wrote:I've read somewhere that in 1950s America (sic!) there used to be absurdly high income taxes at the upper ends. The details escape me however.

Top rate was 91% at one point, but basically no one paid it.


So more a theoretical thing?
Last edited by Nakena on Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:12 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:What labor have they put in?

Work isn't just blue-collar, y'know.

I know. But even still, do these people do white-collar work either?
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:13 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Work isn't just blue-collar, y'know.

I know. But even still, do these people do white-collar work either?

Blue and white isn't the only stuff you can do. Making money isn't always doing a typical job.
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
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"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:15 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.

Why is it a problem? Jealousy? Unwillingness to do own work?

It's a problem in that people are suffering and dying because they're poor.
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:15 pm

Petrolheadia wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I know. But even still, do these people do white-collar work either?

Blue and white isn't the only stuff you can do. Making money isn't always doing a typical job.

Well yeah, you can make money without doing labor even.
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Identity politics are counterrevolutionary, mmmkay?

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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:15 pm

Yes, if you're responsible for generating big revenue for your employer then you deserve to be paid well for it.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:17 pm

Gagium wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not terribly interested in what people deserve. The rich having so very much while everyone else has so little is a problem whether they deserve to be rich or not.

But you are "interested in what people deserve" if you want wealth redistribution so the poorer have more.

I want everyone on Earth to be safe, healthy, comfortable, happy, and all that good stuff. Whether we all deserve that is not a consideration for me. I just think it would be good.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Gagium wrote:But you are "interested in what people deserve" if you want wealth redistribution so the poorer have more.

I want everyone on Earth to be safe, healthy, comfortable, happy, and all that good stuff. Whether we all deserve that is not a consideration for me. I just think it would be good.

And we're getting there. We've got a good thing going, why stop?
Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need.
Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need.
We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS!
Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic, centre-libertarian.
Where you can talk about cars!
"They're always saying I'm a Capitalist pig. I suppose I am, but, ah...it ah...it's good for my drumming, I think." - Keith Moon,
If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Gagium wrote:But you are "interested in what people deserve" if you want wealth redistribution so the poorer have more.

I want everyone on Earth to be safe, healthy, comfortable, happy, and all that good stuff. Whether we all deserve that is not a consideration for me. I just think it would be good.


Thats not a bad thing but of course ya know... we disagree on the way to that. A little. ; )
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