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Is all criticism of Israel antisemitic?

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Baobab-Bumbaria
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Founded: Jan 06, 2020
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Is all critisism of Israel antisemitic?

Postby Baobab-Bumbaria » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:25 am

No, Israel is a nation not jews themselves, there are many other religions in Israel (excluding Palestine), so no you can't cll a country an entire religion.

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New Visayan Islands
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:09 am

Baobab-Bumbaria wrote:No, Israel is a nation not jews themselves, there are many other religions in Israel (excluding Palestine), so no you can't cll a country an entire religion.

You do know that there are Jews who do not necessarily abide by Judaism, right? Most recent example I could think of is St. Edith Stein: Catholic convert of Jewish ethnicity, philospher, and Holocaust Martyr.

The IHRA Working Definition has a set of guidelines more comprehensive than its predecessor, the 3Ds of Antisemitism, that are intended to make the Thin Red Line crystal clear.

Let's have an example:
"The State of Israel does extremely questionable things in the name of national survival" would be as legitimate a criticism as I could think of, but "We must delete the illegitimate 'State of Israel' from the map" would cross the line into Antisemitism by way of denying self-determination, among other things I couldn't think of at the moment.
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:45 am

Fahran wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:Dude, you just Muslims so much you want to shift the blame to us (not that I like the Mufti). Hitler developed his anti-Semitism long before meeting the Mufti, and to say that the Mufti is in anyway responsible is ludicrous. It was Hitler’s idea, and Hitler choice.

Also, when will you give the “proof” that I lied about Islam?

The Mufti was a Nazi collaborator. He produced Nazi propaganda and aided recruitment efforts among Bosniaks. He also knew about the Final Solution and spoke giddily about how World War II had extracted a greater toll on Jews than on Germans. He even advised that Arabs should adapt a Final Solution. He was one of many architects behind the genocide. I do not believe that all Muslims or all Palestinians are culpable for the Holocaust but some did play a role in facilitating atrocities, war crimes, and human rights violations and the Mufti could very well have been put on trial and hanged if and when convicted.


Again, not saying that I like the Mufti, but he definitely was not responsible for the Holocaust. He may of supported what he knew about it, but the decision to do it was all Hitler. And a majority of Arabs didn’t support Nazism/Fascism, and the few who did mainly hated the British and French, not Jews.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:46 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Criticizing the abuses and actions of a regime is remarkably different from smearing an ethnic group.

Regime =/= Nation

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:43 pm

Fahran wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Criticizing the abuses and actions of a regime is remarkably different from smearing an ethnic group.

Regime =/= Nation

Sure, but much of the abuses are done with very nation-oriented reasons.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:16 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Sure, but much of the abuses are done with very nation-oriented reasons.

True, but we don't usually go around dismantling nations when nationalistic governments act up. Otherwise Israel would have had the red light to cancel Palestine in 1948 and the Soviets would have permanently canceled Germany in 1945. And I could go on.

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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:52 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Fahran wrote:The Mufti was a Nazi collaborator. He produced Nazi propaganda and aided recruitment efforts among Bosniaks. He also knew about the Final Solution and spoke giddily about how World War II had extracted a greater toll on Jews than on Germans. He even advised that Arabs should adapt a Final Solution. He was one of many architects behind the genocide. I do not believe that all Muslims or all Palestinians are culpable for the Holocaust but some did play a role in facilitating atrocities, war crimes, and human rights violations and the Mufti could very well have been put on trial and hanged if and when convicted.


Again, not saying that I like the Mufti, but he definitely was not responsible for the Holocaust. He may of supported what he knew about it, but the decision to do it was all Hitler. And a majority of Arabs didn’t support Nazism/Fascism, and the few who did mainly hated the British and French, not Jews.

I wouldn't say "all" Hitler. Hitler didn't directly order "murder all the Jews", as far as I know, he just said something along the lines of "get rid of the Jews". The Wannsee Conference saw the formulation of the Endlösung, the Final Solution (to the Jewish Question), and that was Reinhard Heydrich at work.

Your everyday reminder that the malevolence and evil of the Third Reich reached far, far beyond the person of Hitler himself, and it certainly wasn't a bunch of drones just doing what they were ordered to do.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:06 am

Insaanistan wrote:Again, not saying that I like the Mufti, but he definitely was not responsible for the Holocaust. He may of supported what he knew about it, but the decision to do it was all Hitler. And a majority of Arabs didn’t support Nazism/Fascism, and the few who did mainly hated the British and French, not Jews.

He was one of its architects arguably given that he discussed the Final Solution with Nazis and enthusiastically supported it. With regard to the Arabs, one pro-Axis uprising occurred during World War II, specifically in Iraq. And the Mufti was one among several Palestinian leaders who not only hated the British but hated the Jews as well. I don't think it's possible to get the stench of Antisemitism out of most early Palestinian leaders. It was definitely present in much the same way as the Irgun and Lehi were present.

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