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Is unequal treatment always discrimination?

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Myrsovia
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Is unequal treatment always discrimination?

Postby Myrsovia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:48 am

We treat people differently every day. When you are looking for a partner, you will probably have a preference for a man or a woman. Or for someone with a certain colour of hair or skin. With a cheerful smile and beautiful teeth. Or with the same taste in music. Is that discrimination, too?

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:52 am

Discrimination is fine and natural in seeking friends or mates.

It's not ok when it comes to matters of personal wellbeing and rights.
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United Usonia
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Postby United Usonia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:54 am

Unequal treatment isn't always descrimination.
I believe discrimination requires the unequal treatment to be unjust.
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Magnum Exitium
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Postby Magnum Exitium » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:54 am

Salus Maior wrote:Discrimination is fine and natural in seeking friends or mates.

It's not ok when it comes to matters of personal wellbeing and rights.

^

Everyone is allowed to have preferences, but it's not justified when applying laws or wellbeing. Just because you're a certain race/gender/religion doesn't mean you have less rights, but someone may prefer someone of a certain race/gender/religion.
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:56 am

United Usonia wrote:Unequal treatment isn't always descrimination.
I believe discrimination requires the unequal treatment to be unjust.

Indeed. Accomodations for disabled people, financial assistance for the poor, things like that are unequal treatment but are not discrimination.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:59 am

Myrsovia wrote:We treat people differently every day. When you are looking for a partner, you will probably have a preference for a man or a woman. Or for someone with a certain colour of hair or skin. With a cheerful smile and beautiful teeth. Or with the same taste in music. Is that discrimination, too?

I mean...
dis·crim·i·na·tion
/dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
"victims of racial discrimination"

2.
recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
"discrimination between right and wrong"

The second definition technically applies here. While I wouldn't say this applies for the first definition, the second one applies.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:06 am

Depends.

It’s not discrimination for liking certain features of a desired partner. I have a thing for red hair. I ended up marrying a Sicilian and have been happy.

Where it turns into discrimination is when you exclude a person for certain features (ie having black skin) and not looking at the whole person.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:16 am

The Black Forrest wrote:Depends.

It’s not discrimination for liking certain features of a desired partner. I have a thing for red hair. I ended up marrying a Sicilian and have been happy.

Where it turns into discrimination is when you exclude a person for certain features (ie having black skin) and not looking at the whole person.


Aw, congrats man.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:18 am

Salus Maior wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:Depends.

It’s not discrimination for liking certain features of a desired partner. I have a thing for red hair. I ended up marrying a Sicilian and have been happy.

Where it turns into discrimination is when you exclude a person for certain features (ie having black skin) and not looking at the whole person.


Aw, congrats man.


Well thank you :). Though I have to confess we are moving up on our 30ith. :)
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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:21 am

I'd say no. My preferences for who I look for in a partner aren't exactly discrimination. When it comes to laws though, that's when it becomes a problem.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:23 am

I’d say it counts. However not all forms of discrimination are bad.
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:25 am

No, and I'm not sure anyone is under the impression otherwise. That's why we're not all entitled to electric wheelchairs, or straight A's on our report cards. Discrimination (in the sense that most people use the word) is specifically unequal treatment without justification.
Last edited by Iridencia on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gigaverse
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Postby Gigaverse » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:26 am

United Usonia wrote:Unequal treatment isn't always descrimination.
I believe discrimination requires the unequal treatment to be unjust.

I mean, I agree with this general definition, but

If we're to be more specific, just whose standards are to be used to define justness?
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The Democratic Nation of Unovia
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Postby The Democratic Nation of Unovia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:27 am

As a disabled American, I am regularly discriminated against when it comes to jobs, where and how I am expected to live, and many other things, based a lot of times on appearances (I am physically disabled and use a walker).
I have no problem when it comes to relationship discrimination, but when it comes to laws and jobs and equal treatment under the law, there is a problem.
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:29 am

Gigaverse wrote:
United Usonia wrote:Unequal treatment isn't always descrimination.
I believe discrimination requires the unequal treatment to be unjust.

If we're to be more specific, just whose standards are to be used to define justness?


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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:47 am

Sovaal wrote:I’d say it counts. However not all forms of discrimination are bad.


This is true. After all if I am hiring a doctor, I am going to discriminate against people who are not doctors. And by default the undereducated and those who have severe mental disabilities that prevent them from succeeding in school.

If I want to hire a construction worker, I am going to discriminate against people with certain physical disabilities, someone in a wheel chair cannot operate a jackhammer.

If I am hiring a teacher I will discriminate against those with sex crime convictions.

Discrimination is not necessarily bad if it is justified.

But unjust discrimination is bad. If I refuse to hire a doctor or construction worker because of their race, even though that does not impact the ability to do their job it IS a bad thing.

And in our personnel lives we will discriminate, who we wish to be friends with will discriminate against people with personalities we do not like.

And so on.

Preventing the government and employers from engaging in UNJUST discrimination is different than saying all discrimination is inherently wrong.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:53 am

The Democratic Nation of Unovia wrote:As a disabled American, I am regularly discriminated against when it comes to jobs, where and how I am expected to live, and many other things, based a lot of times on appearances (I am physically disabled and use a walker).
I have no problem when it comes to relationship discrimination, but when it comes to laws and jobs and equal treatment under the law, there is a problem.


Legally an employer cannot discriminate against you because of a physical disability unless it makes you unable to do a certain job and they have to provide reasonable accommodations for you.

It still happens, but it is illegal if they unjustly discriminate against you and you can seek legal redress.

Of course some jobs may be justified in discriminating against physical disability in certain cases. It is unfortunate but if the job has certain physical demands that no reasonable accommodation can redress, then discrimination may be necessary.

For example I am sure you would concur that because of your disability you will not be hired to run a jackhammer.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Page » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:11 pm

Yes, it is discrimination by definition. Discrimination isn't necessarily always a bad thing. Refusing to hire a convicted sexual predator to work at a daycare is discrimination, but it's discrimination that everyone finds acceptable.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:19 pm

Novus America wrote:
The Democratic Nation of Unovia wrote:As a disabled American, I am regularly discriminated against when it comes to jobs, where and how I am expected to live, and many other things, based a lot of times on appearances (I am physically disabled and use a walker).
I have no problem when it comes to relationship discrimination, but when it comes to laws and jobs and equal treatment under the law, there is a problem.


Legally an employer cannot discriminate against you because of a physical disability unless it makes you unable to do a certain job and they have to provide reasonable accommodations for you.

It still happens, but it is illegal if they unjustly discriminate against you and you can seek legal redress.

Of course some jobs may be justified in discriminating against physical disability in certain cases. It is unfortunate but if the job has certain physical demands that no reasonable accommodation can redress, then discrimination may be necessary.

For example I am sure you would concur that because of your disability you will not be hired to run a jackhammer.


I think he's aware he can't wield a jackhammer, and I'm sure he doesn't seek employment that he can't actually do.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:24 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Legally an employer cannot discriminate against you because of a physical disability unless it makes you unable to do a certain job and they have to provide reasonable accommodations for you.

It still happens, but it is illegal if they unjustly discriminate against you and you can seek legal redress.

Of course some jobs may be justified in discriminating against physical disability in certain cases. It is unfortunate but if the job has certain physical demands that no reasonable accommodation can redress, then discrimination may be necessary.

For example I am sure you would concur that because of your disability you will not be hired to run a jackhammer.


I think he's aware he can't wield a jackhammer, and I'm sure he doesn't seek employment that he can't actually do.


Of course. I never said otherwise.

It was simply to point out that it would not be wrong to discriminate against him for the job of wielding a jack hammer.

It is still discrimination against his physical disability though.

It would still be wrong to discriminate against his physical disability in other jobs were he can do the job fine given reasonable accommodations.

It is simply to illustrate that discrimination against a physical disability is often bad, but sometimes not.

Discrimination is not inherently bad, although it often is bad. It depends on the justification and context.
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Postby Telconi » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:30 pm

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Postby Cekoviu » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:41 pm

Not all unequal treatment is discrimination, but all discrimination is unequal treatment.
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Postby Czechostan » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:17 pm

No, of course not. People come from differing circumstances, so they need different treatment. It's not discrimination if, say, you're not prescribed certain medication because you don't have a certain ailment.

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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:58 pm

I mean I have a sexual preference for hispanic, middle eastern or southern European women but I wouldn't call that discrimination. While I prefer them, I still wouldn't rule out dating someone from another group and I wouldn't treat anyone unfair regardless of race
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Postby Vetalia » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:29 pm

No, as someone mentioned before the reasonable accommodation for someone with a disability would be considered unequal treatment as that individual would be receiving additional benefits from their employer to compensate for their disability.

In terms of personal relationships, I would say emphatically no as the nature of those relationships is totally different from the contractual relationships in commerce and government. Furthermore, the concept of discrimination is based on an injustice, i.e. someone is deprived of what they would have normally received were they not a member of the discriminated-against group which again does not exist in personal relationships. I'm not hiring or contracting out a friend or romantic partner to perform a service in exchange for compensation, it's entirely an emotional and subjective relationship.
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