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A discussion on Juche apologist

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Cela
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A discussion on Juche apologist

Postby Cela » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:02 pm

As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?
Last edited by Cela on Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:12 pm

Cela wrote:As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?

One thing you are mistaking is assuming that just because something absolutely positively and undeniably is propaganda that must mean it's not true. Truth is, between the unjust and disgusting sanctions imposed by the west and the reality of them being a fascist feudal monarchy there probably is some truth to those criticisms. But it's also true that they are indeed propaganda.
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Cela
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Postby Cela » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Cela wrote:As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?

One thing you are mistaking is assuming that just because something absolutely positively and undeniably is propaganda that must mean it's not true. Truth is, between the unjust and disgusting sanctions imposed by the west and the reality of them being a fascist feudal monarchy there probably is some truth to those criticisms. But it's also true that they are indeed propaganda.

Oh, I agree with you on what propaganda is. I was addressing people on the Left who dismiss something entirely because it's propaganda. Propaganda can have some truth to it.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:51 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Cela wrote:As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?

One thing you are mistaking is assuming that just because something absolutely positively and undeniably is propaganda that must mean it's not true. Truth is, between the unjust and disgusting sanctions imposed by the west and the reality of them being a fascist feudal monarchy there probably is some truth to those criticisms. But it's also true that they are indeed propaganda.

Nothing unjust about prohibiting trade with a dictatorship. If anything we should do it more with other countries.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:48 pm

All authoritarianism is a danger. I don't like the current plutocracy that is America but jesus, I don't wanna be in North Korea
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:All authoritarianism is a danger. I don't like the current plutocracy that is America but jesus, I don't wanna be in North Korea


Authoritarianism is on a spectrum... But uh yeah.

Not to mention, authoritarianism by an inbred, decadent, entitled gang of bloated wannabe aristocrats ruling over something that's less of a country and more of a giant prison camp.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Cela wrote:As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?


Also... I haven't met a single American leftist who thinks North Korea is a good thing in any way shape or form unless it's a "Greatest Korea" meme joke.
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:04 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Cela wrote:As a relatively active person on the Left on NationStates I've interacted with various leftist regions for the past 5 years or so. Originally under my nation of Dirtcrakia. A worrying trend I've seen in some regions, not naming names, is the apologetic or sympathetic attitudes to the ideology of Juche. The state ideology of North Korea. From what I've come to understand from leftist over the years is that we're generally against nationalism. Yet Juche is extremely nationalist. It's a system akin to Nazi Germany if you remove the leftist iconography and terminology. Just because it's not Western imperialism, does not mean it's something to admire. As Leftist, we shouldn't be supporting something that is contradictory to our core beliefs. And this is not even mentioning the numerous crimes against humanity committed by the Kim family. Can you honestly sit there and say any and all criticism of North Korea is just Western propaganda? Because if you are, why are you any better than right-wing conspiracy nuts that run around calling everything fake news just because they don't like what it says?


Also... I haven't met a single American leftist who thinks North Korea is a good thing in any way shape or form unless it's a "Greatest Korea" meme joke.

You can find plenty of them on this very site if you go into large leftist regions that are into raiding and defending. I've encountered some.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:07 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Also... I haven't met a single American leftist who thinks North Korea is a good thing in any way shape or form unless it's a "Greatest Korea" meme joke.

You can find plenty of them on this very site if you go into large leftist regions that are into raiding and defending. I've encountered some.


Oh my mistake. :roll:

Couple things.

1.) Actually playing the game is for lame nubs. The real game is in General :P

2.) NationStates is not representative of American politics only.

3.) I find that the RP and raiding community trend towards younger people who can't vote. So, who cares?

What next, you gonna bring up how Juche is also extremely popular in Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, and Discord Furry servers?
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:12 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:You can find plenty of them on this very site if you go into large leftist regions that are into raiding and defending. I've encountered some.


Oh my mistake. :roll:

Couple things.

1.) Actually playing the game is for lame nubs. The real game is in General :P

2.) NationStates is not representative of American politics only.

3.) I find that the RP and raiding community trend towards younger people who can't vote. So, who cares?

What next, you gonna bring up how Juche is also extremely popular in Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, and Discord Furry servers?

Many people RP political ideas in raiding as well, so that's something to take into consideration.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:18 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:You can find plenty of them on this very site if you go into large leftist regions that are into raiding and defending. I've encountered some.


Oh my mistake. :roll:

Couple things.

1.) Actually playing the game is for lame nubs. The real game is in General :P

2.) NationStates is not representative of American politics only.

3.) I find that the RP and raiding community trend towards younger people who can't vote. So, who cares?

What next, you gonna bring up how Juche is also extremely popular in Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft, and Discord Furry servers?

I never said it was "extremely popular," I said you can find groups of them on this site. I'm also aware that this game has an international playerbase but the group I'm thinking of seem to be American, unless they put false locations in their customizable fields.

The South Falls wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:-snip-

Many people RP political ideas in raiding as well, so that's something to take into consideration.

When people link to actual propaganda sites, I don't think that's IC especially when it is the topic of OOC political discussions on their RMBs.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:27 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:All authoritarianism is a danger. I don't like the current plutocracy that is America but jesus, I don't wanna be in North Korea


Authoritarianism is on a spectrum

That explains a lot.
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:43 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Authoritarianism is on a spectrum

That explains a lot.


Ayy lmao :lol:

I'm proud of myself, took me a second, and also because I am also on a spectrum.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:48 pm

I do remember one poster who brought to my attention the belief that North Korea is actually a paradise and the world works to make it seem awful to stop people from wanting it for themselves. It is of, course, as absurd as people looking at nazi propaganda of concentration camps and taking it at face value
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:49 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I do remember one poster who brought to my attention the belief that North Korea is actually a paradise and the world works to make it seem awful to stop people from wanting it for themselves. It is of, course, as absurd as people looking at nazi propaganda of concentration camps and taking it at face value


Yeah, Tekro... Tempo... Nippon... Something.

Last I heard he went on trip to North Korea.

... Wonder what happened to him. :meh:
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:51 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I do remember one poster who brought to my attention the belief that North Korea is actually a paradise and the world works to make it seem awful to stop people from wanting it for themselves. It is of, course, as absurd as people looking at nazi propaganda of concentration camps and taking it at face value


Yeah, Tekro... Tempo... Nippon... Something.

Last I heard he went on trip to North Korea.

... Wonder what happened to him. :meh:

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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:53 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Yeah, Tekro... Tempo... Nippon... Something.

Last I heard he went on trip to North Korea.

... Wonder what happened to him. :meh:

Please tell me you're joking


I swear to Gnostic Anime Girl Jesus, I coulda sworn that was a thing XD

If only I could remember their name.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:54 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Please tell me you're joking


I swear to Gnostic Anime Girl Jesus, I coulda sworn that was a thing XD

If only I could remember their name.

Sigh, I wanted it to be a light hearted memory, not an obituary
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Postby Kowani » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:56 pm

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:One thing you are mistaking is assuming that just because something absolutely positively and undeniably is propaganda that must mean it's not true. Truth is, between the unjust and disgusting sanctions imposed by the west and the reality of them being a fascist feudal monarchy there probably is some truth to those criticisms. But it's also true that they are indeed propaganda.

Nothing unjust about prohibiting trade with a dictatorship. If anything we should do it more with other countries.

If it actually worked, maybe.
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Postby Mushet » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:58 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Yeah, Tekro... Tempo... Nippon... Something.

Last I heard he went on trip to North Korea.

... Wonder what happened to him. :meh:

Please tell me you're joking

He went, there was some news about some tourist to North Korea causing trouble and getting arrested for it around this time, there was a thread on NSG where people thought it was him but then he swooped in the thread to tell everybody his trip went well and he didn't get arrested. And THEN I never saw him again.

It'd take some really dedicated North Korean lackey to log in to his nation and post that in order to get rid of suspicions though.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Mushet wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Please tell me you're joking

He went, there was some news about some tourist to North Korea causing trouble and getting arrested for it around this time, there was a thread on NSG where people thought it was him but then he swooped in the thread to tell everybody his trip went well and he didn't get arrested. And THEN I never saw him again.

It'd take some really dedicated North Korean lackey to log in to his nation and post that in order to get rid of suspicions though.

I wouldn't be surprised if some NK hacker was tasked with the job of getting his NS profile to say he's ok
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Luziyca
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Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:00 pm

I remember them well. Heck, I was one when I was much younger, and heck, I pretended to be Kim Jong-il until he died and The Archregimancy made the most awesome post about my claim.

Needless to say, while the DPRK still is fascinating, it is no paradise, and I long dropped that act.
Last edited by Luziyca on Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mushet
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Founded: Apr 29, 2008
New York Times Democracy

Postby Mushet » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Mushet wrote:He went, there was some news about some tourist to North Korea causing trouble and getting arrested for it around this time, there was a thread on NSG where people thought it was him but then he swooped in the thread to tell everybody his trip went well and he didn't get arrested. And THEN I never saw him again.

It'd take some really dedicated North Korean lackey to log in to his nation and post that in order to get rid of suspicions though.

I wouldn't be surprised if some NK hacker was tasked with the job of getting his NS profile to say he's ok

I would, I'd understand facebook or even leddit but this would be an easy site to overlook.
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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Mushet wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Please tell me you're joking

He went, there was some news about some tourist to North Korea causing trouble and getting arrested for it around this time, there was a thread on NSG where people thought it was him but then he swooped in the thread to tell everybody his trip went well and he didn't get arrested. And THEN I never saw him again.

It'd take some really dedicated North Korean lackey to log in to his nation and post that in order to get rid of suspicions though.


OH MY GOD I FUCKING FORGOT SOMEONE GOT ARRESTED. XD SWEET JESUS.

Also. Good sir. This is North Korea we're talking about, the same guys who kidnapped a goddamn Japanese movie director and forced them to make shitty Godzilla knockoffs.
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The Chuck
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Posts: 2430
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:Nothing unjust about prohibiting trade with a dictatorship. If anything we should do it more with other countries.

If it actually worked, maybe.


Oops, Kowani's getting involved in a thread about the Korean Peninsula... Better pile in now! :P

Jokes aside, as someone who was born in South Korea, has immigrated to the US, and who is of the prime drafting age, I've always wanted to go back to South Korea... the question is, will I go back wearing a Tommy Bahama shirt with my Nikon or go back wearing green camo and carrying an M4A1 rifle? Sure the US has its fuck ups and so does every other country on Earth. However, in the case of North Korea and their system, I think it's a safe bet so say that the leadership can fuck right on off. Many people are suffering at the hands of the few and it disgusts me. I know wishing death upon someone is against the societal norms of this website so I won't say that Kim Jong Un should kick the bucket but I will say I hope his successor if it's familial again is Kim Han-Sol. Son of the murdered Kim Jong-Nam. Seems like a fairly moderate and open minded young man who might be able to fix the shit show that started back in the 40s.
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