NATION

PASSWORD

All Things Impeachment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should Donald Trump Be Impeached?

Yes, and he should be removed from office and prosecuted.
179
53%
Yes, and he should be removed from office but not prosecuted.
19
6%
Yes, and he should be impeached but not removed from office.
4
1%
Neutral/Unsure/Meh
13
4%
No, he shouldn't be impeached, let the 2020 Election decide his fate.
49
14%
No, he shouldn't be impeached as his actions don't warrant impeachment.
20
6%
No, he shouldn't be impeached as the impeachment inquiry is politically motivated.
55
16%
 
Total votes : 339

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 102431
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

All Things Impeachment

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:05 pm

Yes, friends, this is the Mod-sanctioned, giant economy-sized Impeachment Megathread! Rules are rules and will be obeyed.

We hope that this thread will have only impeachment-related posts but we do understand that there will be overlap between this and the MAGAThread and the Election megathread. We will be magnanimous in our grace and justice, as we always are, but thread-jacks will be dealt with harshly.

:)

So, to start, the first of the public hearings in the House of Representatives will start at 10:00 AM Eastern Time (GMT minus 5) on Wednesday, November 13th. Here are some note from The New York Times:

The witnesses: Impeachment investigators will hear from William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Ukraine, and George P. Kent, a senior State Department official in charge of Ukraine policy.

Mr. Taylor was a standout witness for Democrats during his closed-door testimony, describing in vivid terms how the Trump administration used military aid to try to coerce Ukraine into investigating the president’s rivals, and the real-world effects that had on the country’s war with Russia.

Mr. Kent testified that he regarded the push for investigations — spearheaded by Rudy Giuliani — as “injurious to the rule of law.”

The room: Democrats chose the spacious, columned, television-friendly chambers of the Ways and Means Committee — the House’s grandest hearing room — to serve as the backdrop for the hearings.

The officials: The hearing is taking place before the House Intelligence Committee and will be led by its Democratic chairman, Representative Adam B. Schiff, as well as his Republican counterpart, Representative Devin Nunes.

The prosecutors (of sorts): We’ll see at least two new faces: the staff lawyers who have been asking many of the questions in private witness depositions. Daniel Goldman, a former federal prosecutor in Manhattan, will ask questions for Democrats. Steve Castor, a congressional investigator who has worked in the House since 2005, will ask questions for Republicans.

The format: Under special rules adopted late last month, interviews will be split into 45-minute segments each for Mr. Schiff and Mr. Nunes. That time can be delegated to the staff lawyers, which Mr. Schiff said he was likely to do for a substantial block of his allotted time.
Last edited by Farnhamia on Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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User avatar
Aeisonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 175
Founded: May 20, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Aeisonia » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:08 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Yes, friends, this is the Mod-sanctioned, giant economy-sized Impeachment Megathread! Rules are rules and will be obeyed.

We hope that this thread will have only impeachment-related posts but we do understand that three will be overlap between this and the MAGAThread and the Election megathread. We will be magnanimous in our grace and justice, as we always are, but thread-jacks will be dealt with harshly.

:)

So, to start, the first of the public hearings in the House of Representatives will start at 10:00 AM Eastern Time (GMT minus 5) on Wednesday, November 13th. Here are some note from The New York Times:

The witnesses: Impeachment investigators will hear from William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Ukraine, and George P. Kent, a senior State Department official in charge of Ukraine policy.

Mr. Taylor was a standout witness for Democrats during his closed-door testimony, describing in vivid terms how the Trump administration used military aid to try to coerce Ukraine into investigating the president’s rivals, and the real-world effects that had on the country’s war with Russia.

Mr. Kent testified that he regarded the push for investigations — spearheaded by Rudy Giuliani — as “injurious to the rule of law.”

The room: Democrats chose the spacious, columned, television-friendly chambers of the Ways and Means Committee — the House’s grandest hearing room — to serve as the backdrop for the hearings.

The officials: The hearing is taking place before the House Intelligence Committee and will be led by its Democratic chairman, Representative Adam B. Schiff, as well as his Republican counterpart, Representative Devin Nunes.

The prosecutors (of sorts): We’ll see at least two new faces: the staff lawyers who have been asking many of the questions in private witness depositions. Daniel Goldman, a former federal prosecutor in Manhattan, will ask questions for Democrats. Steve Castor, a congressional investigator who has worked in the House since 2005, will ask questions for Republicans.

The format: Under special rules adopted late last month, interviews will be split into 45-minute segments each for Mr. Schiff and Mr. Nunes. That time can be delegated to the staff lawyers, which Mr. Schiff said he was likely to do for a substantial block of his allotted time.

I honestly hope this goes through. Trump is an idiot in my opinion.
Last edited by Farnhamia on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Accidentally edit the quote instead of the original post. Duh.
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Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18104
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:20 pm

Bringing this over from the MAGA-Thread:
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

Turbofolkia wrote:And it’s not like the 1000 different offshoots of Protestantism that you have in America are any better. Even if they’re not abusing children, it’s just megachurches filled with people on mobility strollers donating their life savings to Pastor Hamburglar so that he can buy his sixth McMansion.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 102431
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:22 pm

Kowani wrote:Bringing this over from the MAGA-Thread:

Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18104
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:26 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Bringing this over from the MAGA-Thread:

Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.

Lemme see if I can find another one.
Atheist and still proud of it. Spanish Expat.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

Turbofolkia wrote:And it’s not like the 1000 different offshoots of Protestantism that you have in America are any better. Even if they’re not abusing children, it’s just megachurches filled with people on mobility strollers donating their life savings to Pastor Hamburglar so that he can buy his sixth McMansion.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36291
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:35 pm

Kowani wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.

Lemme see if I can find another one.


Someone's probably gonna pirate it, text easily is.

I'll be damned if I'm paying actual money to read a Wall Street Journal op-ed by Rudy goddamn Giuliani.

Maybe a Mitt Romney one. I'm curious what he thinks about anime.
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Drongonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 617
Founded: Feb 11, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Drongonia » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:37 pm

Kowani wrote:Lemme see if I can find another one.

Farnhamia wrote:Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.


Here you are!

The Case for the Impeachment Defense
By Rudy Giuliani
Nov. 12, 2019 7:37 pm ET

If your only sources of news the past two months have been CNN and MSNBC, you probably think President Trump has committed some heinous act that is deserving of being drawn, quartered and carted out of the White House.

That’s a false narrative built on selectively leaked testimony from Rep. Adam Schiff’s closed-door Intelligence Committee hearings. The manner in which he and Speaker Nancy Pelosi are conducting this impeachment investigation is unprecedented, constitutionally questionable, and an affront to American fair play.

The conversation my client, President Donald J. Trump, had with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25 was innocent. During a congratulatory call, the newly elected Mr. Zelensky brought up the need to “drain the swamp” in his country. Rooting out corruption was one of Mr. Zelensky’s campaign pledges, and Mr. Trump asked him to investigate allegations of corruption at the highest levels of both governments. It was a matter of serious mutual concern.

In particular, Messrs. Zelensky and Trump discussed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. A Ukrainian court ruled in December last year that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau and Ukrainian lawmaker Serhiy Leshchenko illegally interfered in the 2016 election by releasing documents related to Paul Manafort. A January 2017 report from Politico implied that the officials released the information to hurt the Trump campaign. The site reported that a Democratic National Committee contractor, Alexandra Chalupa, dug for dirt on Mr. Manafort’s work in Ukraine. This past May, Valeriy Chaly, Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., told the Hill’s John Solomon that Ms. Chalupa came to the embassy looking for damaging information on Mr. Manafort. Ms. Chalupa has denied conducting opposition research with Ukrainian officials for the DNC but told Politico that she provided what information she found on Mr. Manafort to “a lot of journalists.” Needless to say, the matter could still use investigating.

Mr. Trump also briefly brought up his concerns regarding former Vice President Joe Biden’s conduct toward Ukraine while his son, Hunter Biden, worked for the Ukrainian company Burisma. Andriy Derkach, a member of Ukraine’s Parliament, told the press in early October that he had reviewed documents showing that Burisma transferred $900,000 to Rosemont Seneca Partners, a lobbying firm owned by Hunter Biden, and that the money was for lobbying Joe Biden. In my view, the former vice president should be investigated for bribery, and at the very least both Bidens’ behavior deserves serious scrutiny.

For Messrs. Trump and Zelensky to discuss these issues was not only proper but an exercise of Mr. Trump’s responsibility as U.S. president as expressed in Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution: “to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed.”

Moreover, Mr. Trump requested that Ukraine root out corruption; he didn’t demand it. His words were cordial, agreeable and free of any element of threat or coercion. Mr. Trump offered nothing in return to Ukraine for cleaning up corruption. If you doubt me, read the transcript. Allegations of Burisma-Biden corruption weren’t even a major part of the conversation. The focus was on Ukrainian corruption broadly speaking and out of a five-page transcript Mr. Trump spent only six lines on Joe Biden.

Moreover, Mr. Zelensky has made clear he felt the call was a perfectly normal, friendly and appropriate conversation, one in which he felt no pressure of any kind.

In an ideal America, politicians would be held to the same standard regardless of party, and this inquiry would be over. But the left’s inability to accept the results of the 2016 election and fear of Mr. Trump’s policy agenda have driven the Democrats into a frenzy. Call it Trump derangement syndrome or a corrupt double standard, but there can be little doubt that Mr. Biden would not be pursued so aggressively were he in Mr. Trump’s place. The dominance of the left-leaning media is one of the main reasons that Capitol Hill Democrats can get away with acting this way.

If the American people are allowed to see the facts of the matter, the truth will prevail. But if the allegations against Joe and Hunter Biden aren’t fully investigated, we won’t have equal justice under the law. Politicians of both parties should insist on fairness. That necessarily includes defending the right of political opponents to have their say before the American people—even President Trump.
Last edited by Drongonia on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pangurstan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 18
Founded: Aug 20, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Pangurstan » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:38 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Bringing this over from the MAGA-Thread:

Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.


It’s paywalled.

5 seconds too late.
Last edited by Pangurstan on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36291
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:44 pm

Drongonia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Lemme see if I can find another one.

Farnhamia wrote:Seems to be pay-walled but maybe I hit my limit on free reads at the WSJ.


Here you are!

The Case for the Impeachment Defense
By Rudy Giuliani
Nov. 12, 2019 7:37 pm ET

If your only sources of news the past two months have been CNN and MSNBC, you probably think President Trump has committed some heinous act that is deserving of being drawn, quartered and carted out of the White House.

That’s a false narrative built on selectively leaked testimony from Rep. Adam Schiff’s closed-door Intelligence Committee hearings. The manner in which he and Speaker Nancy Pelosi are conducting this impeachment investigation is unprecedented, constitutionally questionable, and an affront to American fair play.

The conversation my client, President Donald J. Trump, had with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25 was innocent. During a congratulatory call, the newly elected Mr. Zelensky brought up the need to “drain the swamp” in his country. Rooting out corruption was one of Mr. Zelensky’s campaign pledges, and Mr. Trump asked him to investigate allegations of corruption at the highest levels of both governments. It was a matter of serious mutual concern.

In particular, Messrs. Zelensky and Trump discussed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. A Ukrainian court ruled in December last year that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau and Ukrainian lawmaker Serhiy Leshchenko illegally interfered in the 2016 election by releasing documents related to Paul Manafort. A January 2017 report from Politico implied that the officials released the information to hurt the Trump campaign. The site reported that a Democratic National Committee contractor, Alexandra Chalupa, dug for dirt on Mr. Manafort’s work in Ukraine. This past May, Valeriy Chaly, Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., told the Hill’s John Solomon that Ms. Chalupa came to the embassy looking for damaging information on Mr. Manafort. Ms. Chalupa has denied conducting opposition research with Ukrainian officials for the DNC but told Politico that she provided what information she found on Mr. Manafort to “a lot of journalists.” Needless to say, the matter could still use investigating.

Mr. Trump also briefly brought up his concerns regarding former Vice President Joe Biden’s conduct toward Ukraine while his son, Hunter Biden, worked for the Ukrainian company Burisma. Andriy Derkach, a member of Ukraine’s Parliament, told the press in early October that he had reviewed documents showing that Burisma transferred $900,000 to Rosemont Seneca Partners, a lobbying firm owned by Hunter Biden, and that the money was for lobbying Joe Biden. In my view, the former vice president should be investigated for bribery, and at the very least both Bidens’ behavior deserves serious scrutiny.

For Messrs. Trump and Zelensky to discuss these issues was not only proper but an exercise of Mr. Trump’s responsibility as U.S. president as expressed in Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution: “to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed.”

Moreover, Mr. Trump requested that Ukraine root out corruption; he didn’t demand it. His words were cordial, agreeable and free of any element of threat or coercion. Mr. Trump offered nothing in return to Ukraine for cleaning up corruption. If you doubt me, read the transcript. Allegations of Burisma-Biden corruption weren’t even a major part of the conversation. The focus was on Ukrainian corruption broadly speaking and out of a five-page transcript Mr. Trump spent only six lines on Joe Biden.

Moreover, Mr. Zelensky has made clear he felt the call was a perfectly normal, friendly and appropriate conversation, one in which he felt no pressure of any kind.

In an ideal America, politicians would be held to the same standard regardless of party, and this inquiry would be over. But the left’s inability to accept the results of the 2016 election and fear of Mr. Trump’s policy agenda have driven the Democrats into a frenzy. Call it Trump derangement syndrome or a corrupt double standard, but there can be little doubt that Mr. Biden would not be pursued so aggressively were he in Mr. Trump’s place. The dominance of the left-leaning media is one of the main reasons that Capitol Hill Democrats can get away with acting this way.

If the American people are allowed to see the facts of the matter, the truth will prevail. But if the allegations against Joe and Hunter Biden aren’t fully investigated, we won’t have equal justice under the law. Politicians of both parties should insist on fairness. That necessarily includes defending the right of political opponents to have their say before the American people—even President Trump.


Thank you, Drongo, for this masterful piracy :3

Whatever Trump is paying him is too goddamn much XD
Pronouns: If you want me to feel pretty and extraordinary, call me she. If you want me to feel handsome and masculine, call me he.
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User avatar
Greater Miami Shores
Minister
 
Posts: 2900
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:51 pm

Link Originally Posted by Kowani:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-case-f ... 1573605427

See how different Persons can have a different take on the same so called evidence. Even on Grand Juries in US Courts of laws, at times the Jury is divided on the guilt or innocence of a person based on the same so called evidence of guilt and guilty. It does happen from time to time.

In this particular case on President Trump's guilt or innocence of having committed an impeachable crime beyond a doubt and hearsay. Also this is Political trial against President Trump by the Democrats for Political reasons. I know and I understand many here disagree with me on this Point:

Link and source provided below at the end of the excerpt:
If your only sources of news the past two months have been CNN and MSNBC, you probably think President Trump has committed some heinous act that is deserving of being drawn, quartered and carted out of the White House.

That’s a false narrative built on selectively leaked testimony from Rep. Adam Schiff’s closed-door Intelligence Committee hearings. The manner in which he and Speaker Nancy Pelosi are conducting this impeachment investigation is unprecedented, constitutionally questionable, and an affront to American fair play....

To Read the Full Story
Subscribe

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-case-f ... 1573605427
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I will only Post from one Nation Per Thread. I am not trying to evade Foe list Ignore list or Puppet Wank. I am the worlds greatest Insomiac, I beat the worlds record every day. Am accountant by Profession worked at US Defense Contractor Corp in Chicago. President Trump second greatest insomniac with 3 AM Tweets. President Trump is no gentle man. President Reagan gentleman no more make. I am Native Cuban and American citizen Alberto. President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President greatest American President ever. Firs lady Nancy Reagan greatest ever. Viva President Trump 2020 Keep Making America Great Again. Second greatest America President ever. Proud conservative Republican Nationalist with slight libertarian economic streak. Proud Hispanic Latino Republican.

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Gormwood
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7231
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:11 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Drongonia wrote:

Here you are!

The Case for the Impeachment Defense
By Rudy Giuliani
Nov. 12, 2019 7:37 pm ET

If your only sources of news the past two months have been CNN and MSNBC, you probably think President Trump has committed some heinous act that is deserving of being drawn, quartered and carted out of the White House.

That’s a false narrative built on selectively leaked testimony from Rep. Adam Schiff’s closed-door Intelligence Committee hearings. The manner in which he and Speaker Nancy Pelosi are conducting this impeachment investigation is unprecedented, constitutionally questionable, and an affront to American fair play.

The conversation my client, President Donald J. Trump, had with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25 was innocent. During a congratulatory call, the newly elected Mr. Zelensky brought up the need to “drain the swamp” in his country. Rooting out corruption was one of Mr. Zelensky’s campaign pledges, and Mr. Trump asked him to investigate allegations of corruption at the highest levels of both governments. It was a matter of serious mutual concern.

In particular, Messrs. Zelensky and Trump discussed Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. A Ukrainian court ruled in December last year that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau and Ukrainian lawmaker Serhiy Leshchenko illegally interfered in the 2016 election by releasing documents related to Paul Manafort. A January 2017 report from Politico implied that the officials released the information to hurt the Trump campaign. The site reported that a Democratic National Committee contractor, Alexandra Chalupa, dug for dirt on Mr. Manafort’s work in Ukraine. This past May, Valeriy Chaly, Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., told the Hill’s John Solomon that Ms. Chalupa came to the embassy looking for damaging information on Mr. Manafort. Ms. Chalupa has denied conducting opposition research with Ukrainian officials for the DNC but told Politico that she provided what information she found on Mr. Manafort to “a lot of journalists.” Needless to say, the matter could still use investigating.

Mr. Trump also briefly brought up his concerns regarding former Vice President Joe Biden’s conduct toward Ukraine while his son, Hunter Biden, worked for the Ukrainian company Burisma. Andriy Derkach, a member of Ukraine’s Parliament, told the press in early October that he had reviewed documents showing that Burisma transferred $900,000 to Rosemont Seneca Partners, a lobbying firm owned by Hunter Biden, and that the money was for lobbying Joe Biden. In my view, the former vice president should be investigated for bribery, and at the very least both Bidens’ behavior deserves serious scrutiny.

For Messrs. Trump and Zelensky to discuss these issues was not only proper but an exercise of Mr. Trump’s responsibility as U.S. president as expressed in Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution: “to take care that the laws of the United States are faithfully executed.”

Moreover, Mr. Trump requested that Ukraine root out corruption; he didn’t demand it. His words were cordial, agreeable and free of any element of threat or coercion. Mr. Trump offered nothing in return to Ukraine for cleaning up corruption. If you doubt me, read the transcript. Allegations of Burisma-Biden corruption weren’t even a major part of the conversation. The focus was on Ukrainian corruption broadly speaking and out of a five-page transcript Mr. Trump spent only six lines on Joe Biden.

Moreover, Mr. Zelensky has made clear he felt the call was a perfectly normal, friendly and appropriate conversation, one in which he felt no pressure of any kind.

In an ideal America, politicians would be held to the same standard regardless of party, and this inquiry would be over. But the left’s inability to accept the results of the 2016 election and fear of Mr. Trump’s policy agenda have driven the Democrats into a frenzy. Call it Trump derangement syndrome or a corrupt double standard, but there can be little doubt that Mr. Biden would not be pursued so aggressively were he in Mr. Trump’s place. The dominance of the left-leaning media is one of the main reasons that Capitol Hill Democrats can get away with acting this way.

If the American people are allowed to see the facts of the matter, the truth will prevail. But if the allegations against Joe and Hunter Biden aren’t fully investigated, we won’t have equal justice under the law. Politicians of both parties should insist on fairness. That necessarily includes defending the right of political opponents to have their say before the American people—even President Trump.


Thank you, Drongo, for this masterful piracy :3

Whatever Trump is paying him is too goddamn much XD

Knowing Donnie, nothing. The only time he actually pays is when you fuck him and he wants it hushed up.
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Debussy
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jun 19, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Debussy » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:19 pm

Trump should be impeached and everyone should call their representatives.

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Greater Miami Shores
Minister
 
Posts: 2900
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:23 pm

Debussy wrote:Trump should be impeached and everyone should call their representatives.

President Trump should not be impeached and everyone should call their representatives.
I will only Post from one Nation Per Thread. I am not trying to evade Foe list Ignore list or Puppet Wank. I am the worlds greatest Insomiac, I beat the worlds record every day. Am accountant by Profession worked at US Defense Contractor Corp in Chicago. President Trump second greatest insomniac with 3 AM Tweets. President Trump is no gentle man. President Reagan gentleman no more make. I am Native Cuban and American citizen Alberto. President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President greatest American President ever. Firs lady Nancy Reagan greatest ever. Viva President Trump 2020 Keep Making America Great Again. Second greatest America President ever. Proud conservative Republican Nationalist with slight libertarian economic streak. Proud Hispanic Latino Republican.

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Drongonia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 617
Founded: Feb 11, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Drongonia » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:47 pm

Greater Miami Shores wrote:President Trump should not be impeached and everyone should call their representatives.

Big agree.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:52 pm

Drongonia wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:President Trump should not be impeached and everyone should call their representatives.

Big agree.


Why?
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Postby Drongonia » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:01 am

Vassenor wrote:
Drongonia wrote:Big agree.


Why?


Because I don't want him to have to leave office before democratically kicked out (or hit by a term limit)
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:03 am

Drongonia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Why?


Because I don't want him to have to leave office before democratically kicked out (or hit by a term limit)


Even if he demonstrably violated the law and abused his office for personal gain?
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:17 am

Vassenor wrote:
Drongonia wrote:Big agree.


Why?

Vassenor you all know very well my reasons why and I know very well your reasons and your leftists friends reasons why not.

I agree with Drongonia:
Big agree.
viewtopic.php?p=36430388#p36430388

Since this is the new official Trump impeachment Maga Thread, I will not apologize to anyone for my so called canned responses. and my economic, political and social views. For my strong and Proud support of President Donald J Trump of The USA of America - The USA. Like you all don't do so on the opposite views of the Democrats and on President Trump.

Why should President Donald J Trump of The United States of America - The USA should not be impeached and everyone should call their Representatives? To Keep Making America Great Again - Viva Trump 2020

Nothing has been proven against President Donnie Trump, no obstruction, no collusion, no violations of the emoluments clause and no Trump Ukraine Gate beyond a doubt and hearsay. This is Political trial and Political war declared by the Democrats against President Trump for Political reasons to weaken him politically during the election season with Independent voters and the American People, not for Justice in America - The USA. Lets not keep denying it.

The President of Ukraine a former comedian, has stated he felt no pressures from President Trump. Their was no quid pro quo and no black mail. It should have been on a video not on phone call. Good Joke Volodymyr Zelensky lol.

I rest my case again.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I will only Post from one Nation Per Thread. I am not trying to evade Foe list Ignore list or Puppet Wank. I am the worlds greatest Insomiac, I beat the worlds record every day. Am accountant by Profession worked at US Defense Contractor Corp in Chicago. President Trump second greatest insomniac with 3 AM Tweets. President Trump is no gentle man. President Reagan gentleman no more make. I am Native Cuban and American citizen Alberto. President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President greatest American President ever. Firs lady Nancy Reagan greatest ever. Viva President Trump 2020 Keep Making America Great Again. Second greatest America President ever. Proud conservative Republican Nationalist with slight libertarian economic streak. Proud Hispanic Latino Republican.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:19 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Why?

Vassenor you all know very well my reasons why and I know very well your reasons and your leftists friends reasons why not.

I agree with Drongonia:
Big agree.
viewtopic.php?p=36430388#p36430388

Since this is the new official Trump impeachment Maga Thread, I will not apologize to anyone for my so called canned responses. and my economic, political and social views. For my strong and Proud support of President Donald J Trump of The USA of America - The USA. Like you all don't do so on the opposite views of the Democrats and on President Trump.

Why should President Donald J Trump of The United States of America - The USA should not be impeached and everyone should call their Representatives? To Keep Making America Great Again - Viva Trump 2020

Nothing has been proven against President Donnie Trump, no obstruction, no collusion, no violations of the emoluments clause and no Trump Ukraine Gate beyond a doubt and hearsay. This is Political trial by the Democrats against President Trump for Political reasons to weaken him politically during the election season with Independent voters and the American People, not for Justice in America - The USA. Lets not keep denying it.

The President of Ukraine a former comedian, has stated he felt no pressures from President Trump. Their was no quid pro quo and no black mail. It should have been on a video not on phone call. Good Joke Volodymyr Zelensky lol.

I rest my case again.


Remember, everything must be proven beyond reasonable doubt before the investigation can begin. Even though the point of the investigation is to find that proof.

And I'm sorry if the multiple witnesses testifying that it did happen upsets you but you don't just get to ignore that they exist to satisfy your narratives.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:31 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:Vassenor you all know very well my reasons why and I know very well your reasons and your leftists friends reasons why not.

I agree with Drongonia:
Big agree.
viewtopic.php?p=36430388#p36430388

Since this is the new official Trump impeachment Maga Thread, I will not apologize to anyone for my so called canned responses. and my economic, political and social views. For my strong and Proud support of President Donald J Trump of The USA of America - The USA. Like you all don't do so on the opposite views of the Democrats and on President Trump.

Why should President Donald J Trump of The United States of America - The USA should not be impeached and everyone should call their Representatives? To Keep Making America Great Again - Viva Trump 2020

Nothing has been proven against President Donnie Trump, no obstruction, no collusion, no violations of the emoluments clause and no Trump Ukraine Gate beyond a doubt and hearsay. This is Political trial by the Democrats against President Trump for Political reasons to weaken him politically during the election season with Independent voters and the American People, not for Justice in America - The USA. Lets not keep denying it.

The President of Ukraine a former comedian, has stated he felt no pressures from President Trump. Their was no quid pro quo and no black mail. It should have been on a video not on phone call. Good Joke Volodymyr Zelensky lol.

I rest my case again.


Remember, everything must be proven beyond reasonable doubt before the investigation can begin. Even though the point of the investigation is to find that proof.

And I'm sorry if the multiple witnesses testifying that it did happen upsets you but you don't just get to ignore that they exist to satisfy your narratives.

And those witnesses don't have any facts other than their hearsay and opinions. I have seen links to this. Their are other witnesses who support that it has not happened. Republicans want to call certain witnesses in defense of President Trump and can be blocked by Democrat Adam Schiff and the Democrat majority on the committee, as Adam Schiff has blocked and stated so.

Even in US Courts of Laws Grand Juries at times are divided on the guilt or innocence of a Person based on the same so called evidence presented in US Courts of Laws.

I am sorry if the others don't fit your narrative of your anti Trump views. I get it you support the Democrats don't like or you hate President Trump based on the posts I have seen on these Trump Maga Threads, and their is nothing wrong with that, from your personal and political perspective. Just as their is nothing wrong with that, of my personal and political perspective of support for the Republicans and President Trump.
I will only Post from one Nation Per Thread. I am not trying to evade Foe list Ignore list or Puppet Wank. I am the worlds greatest Insomiac, I beat the worlds record every day. Am accountant by Profession worked at US Defense Contractor Corp in Chicago. President Trump second greatest insomniac with 3 AM Tweets. President Trump is no gentle man. President Reagan gentleman no more make. I am Native Cuban and American citizen Alberto. President Ronald Reagan, the original Make America Great Again President greatest American President ever. Firs lady Nancy Reagan greatest ever. Viva President Trump 2020 Keep Making America Great Again. Second greatest America President ever. Proud conservative Republican Nationalist with slight libertarian economic streak. Proud Hispanic Latino Republican.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:34 am

]
Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Remember, everything must be proven beyond reasonable doubt before the investigation can begin. Even though the point of the investigation is to find that proof.

And I'm sorry if the multiple witnesses testifying that it did happen upsets you but you don't just get to ignore that they exist to satisfy your narratives.

And those witnesses don't have any facts other than their hearsay and opinions. I have seen links to this. Their are other witnesses who support that it has not happened. Republicans want to call certain witnesses in defense of President Trump and can be blocked by Democrat Adam Schiff and the Democrat majority on the committee, as Adam Schiff has blocked and stated so.

Even in US Courts of Laws Grand Juries at times are divided on the guilt or innocence of a Person based on the same so called evidence presented in US Courts of Laws.

I am sorry if the others don't fit your narrative of your anti Trump views. I get it you support the Democrats don't like or you hate President Trump based on the posts I have seen on these Trump Maga Threads, and their is nothing wrong with that, from your personal and political perspective. Just as their is nothing wrong with that, of my personal and political perspective of support for the Republicans and President Trump.


And who has been blocked from being called?
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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:36 am

Vassenor wrote:Even if he demonstrably violated the law and abused his office for personal gain?

If he demonstrably did, then maybe I'd change my mind. But at this point, impeachment proceedings haven't even begun - meaning that the investigation hasn't been completed, so we're waiting for demonstrable proof beyond reasonable doubt. So based on all of the information we know now - no.
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:37 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:And those witnesses don't have any facts other than their hearsay and opinions.

I mean, if you want to get all solipsistic about it, do any of us really have anything other than our hearsay and opinions?
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:38 am

Senkaku wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:And those witnesses don't have any facts other than their hearsay and opinions.

I mean, if you want to get all solipsistic about it, do any of us really have anything other than our hearsay and opinions?


But their hearsay and opinions are that Trump can do no wrong even if all the evidence says otherwise so that's different because facts and reasons and logic.
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Postby Senkaku » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 am

Vassenor wrote:
Senkaku wrote:I mean, if you want to get all solipsistic about it, do any of us really have anything other than our hearsay and opinions?


But their hearsay and opinions are that Trump can do no wrong even if all the evidence says otherwise so that's different because facts and reasons and logic.

Actually, I just realized what I said is actually basically GMS's view- if you disagree, there's just an irreconcilable difference of opinion between you and him that nothing can ever possibly change, upon which evidence or empirical information have no impact. We're all just isolated minds drifting in the darkness perceiving everything differently, and you can never prove to him that the two of you are witnessing the same reality.

Cheerful thought to end the night on! :p
Last edited by Senkaku on Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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