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Future of a Divided America

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Rico Roca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Future of a Divided America

Postby Rico Roca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:29 pm

Let's say that in the future political freedom in the US just keeps deteriorating eventually becoming a hyper capitalist defacto Republican one party state with freedom of speech being abolished with widespread gerrymandering and voter suppression looking like Hungary or Turkey. Eventually half the country refuse to continue living under what's basically a dictatorship and both the Democratic and independent majority states secede into two new nations, one on the west coast and one in the east.

The western nation is made up of Washington, oregon, California, and Nevada while the North East manages to snag Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, West Virginia, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Maine.

What are the most likely names for the two new nations? Is there any chance that they could make a reconquest and what countries or organizations (e.g. the EU) are likely to recognize them. If they're able to successfully keep their independence and their revived democracies, what events are likely to play out in the following decades now that their neighbor will likely radicalize into full blown totalitarianism now no longer having a counterbalance.

I honestly don't know how this scenario would play out so that's why I'm asking. I also want to point out that this scenario is mostly a thought experiment and is at best an absolute worst case scenario. I'll be sure to post a follow up reverse scenario after this one.

Small follow up, does anything change in the North East if secession is limited to either the Great lakes or the Rust belt?
Last edited by Rico Roca on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bienenhalde
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bienenhalde » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:19 pm

Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:56 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.

That and please, can we give the "America is dooooomed!" threads a rest?
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Teachian
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Teachian » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:01 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.

That and please, can we give the "America is dooooomed!" threads a rest?


At this point, if an impossible unlikely civil war did happen, I'd be driven to preserve the Union just out of spite.
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Gagium
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Gagium » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:03 pm

Rico Roca wrote:Let's say that in the future political freedom in the US just keeps deteriorating eventually becoming a hyper capitalist defacto Republican one party state with freedom of speech being abolished with widespread gerrymandering and voter suppression looking like Hungary or Turkey

Pffft
E

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Drongonia
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Founded: Feb 11, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Drongonia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Rico Roca wrote:Let's say that in the future political freedom in the US just keeps deteriorating eventually becoming a hyper capitalist defacto Republican one party state with freedom of speech being abolished with widespread gerrymandering and voter suppression looking like Hungary or Turkey.


The thing is, due to demographic change, it's very unlikely that we'll get very many Republican POTUSes after Trump. Say what you will about whether he'll get in when 2020 rolls around, but in the 2024 election and going forwards I don't see the 50-50 left-right split continuing for very long. Generally speaking, Asians, Hispanics, PoC, Pacific Islanders - basically any other ethnic group besides US European Whites votes for the left, so as whites become the minority, which is predicted to happen in the next few decades, the country will swing further left.

Now, assuming the constitution stays intact for the foreseeable future (ie. Trump's presidency and maybe one more Republican and Democrat after him) any decay in the realm of what you speak of will definitely be bi-partisan. It will be a corporatist-run degradation of rights, not the "Republican" or "Democratic" parties. It will likely be the entire establishment on both sides deciding people don't get rights anymore.

But as an endnote, these threads are stupid and none of what you said - or what I said, will probably happen.
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Cameroi
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Cameroi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:32 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.

That and please, can we give the "America is dooooomed!" threads a rest?

no nation is immortal, and the environment, our mistreatment of it, and the resulting ecopocalypse, will likely "doom" ALL nations as we "know" them today.

however, its advisarial culture, aggressively inconsiderate culture, which is why we have don panoccio, that is destructive of self and environment.
its not that there are ANY 'good' ideologies, its that crapitalism is no exception to that, in any way shape or manor what so ever at all.
and killing people to make everything have to be about money, has never made anyone happy or free.

yes i'm interested in speculating about what comes after ecopocalyps. what we are deciding now is not whether there will be one, we've past too many tipping points to prevent it entirely, but whether there will even be such a thing as the human species 50 or 100 years from now.

and its famine and disease, not war, however more entertaining some might believe it to be to die killing each other, that is the species fate.
and a fate precipitated by three major factors, two of which, energy and transportation, completely needlessly over use over depend upon combustion, and the big number three, exacerbating the other two, is over population. not just a few to many, but 20 times too many, and the answer isn't war, and not just for moral reasons either.

here's another thing to consider, the 574 free and independent nations that america was robbed from, were no more, and if anything, a good deal less, hostile to each other, then the nations of europe at the time, who's rape of them created the u.s.

i do like the idea of a pacific states, from the northern half of california, all the way on up to alaska, and including yukon and b.c. canada as well as washington and oregon state and north western nevada. a very WESTERN european style of socialism, with a high priority respect for the diversity and harmony of nature.

but again, i want to emphasis, division can bring peace instead of violence. its a matter of learning tolerance for diversity, which being the nature of reality, lack of tolerance for it, is not just illogical, but suisidaly, collectively suicidaly illogical.

and the problem with collective narcissism, isn't that its collective, its that its still narcissism.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:44 pm

Cameroi wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:That and please, can we give the "America is dooooomed!" threads a rest?

no nation is immortal, and the environment, our mistreatment of it, and the resulting ecopocalypse, will likely "doom" ALL nations as we "know" them today.

however, its advisarial culture, aggressively inconsiderate culture, which is why we have don panoccio, that is destructive of self and environment.
its not that there are ANY 'good' ideologies, its that crapitalism is no exception to that, in any way shape or manor what so ever at all.
and killing people to make everything have to be about money, has never made anyone happy or free.

yes i'm interested in speculating about what comes after ecopocalyps. what we are deciding now is not whether there will be one, we've past too many tipping points to prevent it entirely, but whether there will even be such a thing as the human species 50 or 100 years from now.

and its famine and disease, not war, however more entertaining some might believe it to be to die killing each other, that is the species fate.
and a fate precipitated by three major factors, two of which, energy and transportation, completely needlessly over use over depend upon combustion, and the big number three, exacerbating the other two, is over population. not just a few to many, but 20 times too many, and the answer isn't war, and not just for moral reasons either.

here's another thing to consider, the 574 free and independent nations that america was robbed from, were no more, and if anything, a good deal less, hostile to each other, then the nations of europe at the time, who's rape of them created the u.s.

i do like the idea of a pacific states, from the northern half of california, all the way on up to alaska, and including yukon and b.c. canada as well as washington and oregon state and north western nevada. a very WESTERN european style of socialism, with a high priority respect for the diversity and harmony of nature.

but again, i want to emphasis, division can bring peace instead of violence. its a matter of learning tolerance for diversity, which being the nature of reality, lack of tolerance for it, is not just illogical, but suisidaly, collectively suicidaly illogical.

and the problem with collective narcissism, isn't that its collective, its that its still narcissism.

You're willing to forgive the rape of the West Coast and Pacific Northwest tribes and the Inuit as long as you get the government you like? Good to know.

I won't say that what was done to the Native Americans by the Europeans starting 400 years ago but it was what it was and there's no going back. "574 free and independent nations"? The modern concept of a nation would have bewildered those people. They did enjoy European weapons, though, mostly because those gave them nice advantages over their brethren.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
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"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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US-SSR
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Corporate Police State

Postby US-SSR » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:22 pm

Rico Roca wrote:What are the most likely names for the two new nations?


El Libre y Soberano Estado de Alta California, Estados Unidos de Mexico and The Province of the Great Lakes, Commonwealth of Canada.
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First American Empire
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Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:32 pm

Rico Roca wrote:What are the most likely names for the two new nations


Mĕiguó Special Administrative Region and the Nineteen Colonies, respectively.
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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:40 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.

That and please, can we give the "America is dooooomed!" threads a rest?

Can't you like, do something about it oh mighty mod?
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Valentine Z
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:46 pm

Rico Roca wrote:What are the most likely names for the two new nations?

The Republic of The United States and Mexico under De Geweldige Sierlijke Katachtige Utopia en Zijne Autonome Machten ov Valentine Z.

Now that's personally something I can get behind. I will promise and grant kittens to every citizen.

-----

Okay, back to OOC/NSG stuff. I don't know, will US fare better under 50 nations instead of "50 states glued as one country" (just something I heard on the internet once)? I know I am doing this half-jokingly with sarcasm, but you might as well have a Commonwealth of some sorts with 50 countries under one nation... just like the EU. ;)

Then you will probably have 50 presidents/prime ministers/dictators all vouching for land or power and... shit, did I just try to make the Second Civil War?
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:18 am

A split America is really bad.We need a world of love without wars
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:23 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A split America is really bad.We need a world of love without wars


Does a unified United States contribute to this?
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PRO:
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-Gender Equality
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ANTI:
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Purpelia
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:26 am

Americans need to wake up and realize that it's not the democrats or republicans that are the problem. It's the fact you live in a two party system where both parties are staffed by people who are exactly the same and just use different propaganda. Which is an inevitable result of a system with few huge political parties instead of many small ones.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:35 am

Telconi wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A split America is really bad.We need a world of love without wars


Does a unified United States contribute to this?

No, but dividing is not the solution
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:36 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Does a unified United States contribute to this?

No, but dividing is not the solution


It might be, don't know unless you try it.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Crysuko
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:41 am

CSA
USA
AUS
NE
PSA

Sry
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:48 am

Telconi wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:No, but dividing is not the solution


It might be, don't know unless you try it.
There are examples in history For example, Germany
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San Montalbano
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby San Montalbano » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:03 am

Let's list the things that are becoming popular and even touted by many higher up democrats and/or "liberals" these days before you freak out about some wierd "trump dictatorship"

-sanctuary cities(creating a sub-class of citizen to expand their corporate helpers)

-Open Borders(Clearly a sham, they don't care about border security as long as it brings them their sub-class workers, the sanctuary cities are just bright neon signs)

-unlimited migration(illegal nor not, it's simply a smart though vile tactic of increasing their voting base, just import thousands upon thousands of people you KNOW will vote for you and call anyone who fights this racist)

-Lax lawn enforcement ( They cry about all kind of problems such as mass shooters but never mention why these individuals were not brought to justice when the warning signs were very clear, but again, the ends justify the means, meanwhile we have people being killed by illegal immigrants after sometimes 3-5 deportations, but never mind that i guess)

-Hate Speech Laws( the only group who has members whom advocate for criminalizing offensive language, not threatening language, but even offensive language)

-Attempting to turn classes against each other( especially with their giant leap to the far left these days, which can be seen by the presidential candidates they put up)

-Aligning themselves with Islamists, which ironically are extremely conservative, but that doesn't matter because they both find common ground in hating their home nations.

- Abolishing the electoral college, which obviously would help them because they can use their quite literal hordes of city homeless and poor/uneducated to forever maintain power.
Last edited by San Montalbano on Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:31 am

It's not like anyone has suggested building a wall in Colorado. Oh wait.
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Asle Leopolka
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Asle Leopolka » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:32 am

New California Republic and The Commonwealth
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:34 am

Asle Leopolka wrote:New California Republic and The Commonwealth

Pretty much actually...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
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Sovaal
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:02 am

The collapse of the US would massively effect the rest of North America. Frankly I wouldn’t See Canada or Mexico sieving a US collapse either.

And if it did collapse it’s not going to divide along pretty lines.

E: also that’s some nice political wank there.

Why is never any fucking originality in these “America is dead and divided” posts or ideas? I see dozens of them and they’re always the exact same thing, and they’re never any good.
Last edited by Sovaal on Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:57 am

Bienenhalde wrote:Bold of you to assume that only Republicans could create a one-party state.

Also bold of them to assume that Nevada and the Midwestern states are going to be part of the Democrat nation when Republicans control most of the land area in those states:
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