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Latin America General : Corona Carnaval

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Favorite latin american revolutionaries

Fidel Castro Ruz
3
7%
Ernesto "Ché" Guevara
3
7%
Bernardo O'Higgins
3
7%
Emiliano Zapata
4
10%
José Marti
2
5%
Jose de San Martin
2
5%
Miguel Hidalgo
2
5%
Pancho Villa
4
10%
Simon Bolivar
9
22%
Toussaint L'Ouverture
9
22%
 
Total votes : 41

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11524
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Latin America General : Corona Carnaval

Postby Nakena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Latin America General

Image





Due the massive influx of Latin America related topics over the past days and weeks I have blatantly and hilariously decided to create LAG - Latin America General.

Thus i am continueing the awful and terrible tradition of megathreads, altough I do not expect this one to survive beyond a few weeks. You may prove me wrong however. Since thread ownership isn't a thing on NSG this is just me getting the ball rolling.

It covers all South American related topics. Central america and Caribbbean can be optionally added. You can discuss here the lastest developments in such different countries such as Argentina, Chile, Bolivia or Brazil.

The Hot Topics of the days are the political crisis in Bolivia and Brazil. In Bolivia long-time President Evo Morales has resigned upon threats of a coups against his government and in Brazil President Bolsonaro is confronted with severe allegations regarding the murder of Marielle Franco in 2018.

Morales sauce: https://www.dw.com/en/bolivia-morales-w ... a-51180165

Bolsonaro Sauce: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... r-suspects
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:56 am, edited 15 times in total.

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Torrocca
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Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:14 pm

I can't wait to see people talk about how a military coup against a democratically-elected government is actually a good thing. Fuck the right-wing opposition that's plagued Bolivia.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Torrocca
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Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:19 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:I can't wait to see people talk about how a military coup against a democratically-elected government is actually a good thing. Fuck the right-wing opposition that's plagued Bolivia.

Fuck them, imprison them.
Also Imprison Bolsonaro-he's a criminal against humanity.

He's also a dictator-in-waiting, he is evil.

Bolivia was thriving before this, this is disgusting.


Thanks to Morales, the Bolivian economy became the fastest growing in South America and one of the fastest in the world, quadrupling during his tenure. Thanks to Morales, poverty drastically disappeared in Bolivia. Fuck the cowards who decided to stage a coup against this man.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Liriena
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Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:19 pm

The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Liriena
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Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:22 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Fuck them, imprison them.
Also Imprison Bolsonaro-he's a criminal against humanity.

He's also a dictator-in-waiting, he is evil.

Bolivia was thriving before this, this is disgusting.


Thanks to Morales, the Bolivian economy became the fastest growing in South America and one of the fastest in the world, quadrupling during his tenure. Thanks to Morales, poverty drastically disappeared in Bolivia. Fuck the cowards who decided to stage a coup against this man.

The dude's government turned Bolivia into one of the two islands of relative prosperity and progress in the sea of late-stage capitalist piss that South America has become over the past decade. Warts and all, he and his movement have my respect. They deserve better than the endless avalanche of two-faced bullcrap that the South American bourgeoise throws at movements like his.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

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Astrobolt
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 64
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Astrobolt » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:23 pm

How is this a coup? There were irregularities with the previous election, and they are going to hold a new one. It's not like the military is taking control - from what I can tell.
Chief of WA Mission: Reede Tappe
W.I.P

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:23 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?


Can't have the masses be inspired by a successful, peaceful, democratically-elected Socialist government to take a stand against the Neoliberal world order that's been continuously fucking them over for decades now, can we?
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:24 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.

I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time. Arturo Illia was not a socialist, but he was a very progressive Argentine president who had a fantastic government by Argentine standards... and for his good deeds he was rewarded with a coup.
Last edited by Liriena on Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

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Valtrona
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Nov 29, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Valtrona » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:25 pm

Liriena wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:I'm just pissed at a coup against a actually good socialist government. The one country that got it right and they overthrow him?

What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?

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Palm Jumeirah
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Oct 19, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Palm Jumeirah » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:26 pm

so what are the odds for who becomes the next actual president of Venezuela? or the odds of a civil war breaking out?

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:26 pm

Valtrona wrote:
Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?


There's a fantastic chance the US is involved in this one, too.

And by fantastic I mean it fucking sucks.
Last edited by Torrocca on Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:27 pm

Valtrona wrote:
Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time.

But usually isn’t the U.S. involved in those?

Yes. And there's an argument to be made that they are at least indirectly involved, by way of the Organization of American States, who've enabled the coup while simultaneously stoking the flames of a new red scare.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Kowani
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Posts: 21809
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Yep, this is going to end well.
Spanish Atheist.
If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should belong to us – you are merely occupiers.
If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should belong to us – borders must not be changed.
If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it should belong to us – it is the cradle of our nation.
If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must enjoy the right of self-determination.
If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us – they must be protected against your oppression.
All of the above rules apply to us, but not to you.
Our dream of greatness is historical necessity, yours is fascism.

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The East Marches II
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Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Liriena wrote:The perfect thread to start my angry radicalization towards Marxist Peronism as South American neoliberalism refuses to go gently into that good night.


What did you expect? It is the same reaction I have to Trump supporters being shocked that an entrench power structure, does not want to go away. You're going to have to dig them out of their comfortable bureaucracies with their sinecures and revolving doors.

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Samadhi
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Founded: Sep 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Samadhi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?
18 and female
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Enjoys watching social democrats act like authoritarian hell states are that much worse than them.
It's all slavery baby.
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:29 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Liriena wrote:It's South American tradition: if a socialist (or even just vaguely progressive) South American government is actually good and can't be beaten in fair elections, then it's coup time. Arturo Illia was not a socialist, but he was a very progressive Argentine president who had a fantastic government by Argentine standards... and for his good deeds he was rewarded with a coup.

So the military is undemocratic. Color me shocked.

Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:30 pm

Liriena wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:So the military is undemocratic. Color me shocked.

Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.


Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

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Samadhi
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Posts: 1563
Founded: Sep 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Samadhi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:30 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Samadhi wrote:Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?

That's Maduro, I think.


Says Bolivia
18 and female
Voluntaryist.
Enjoys watching social democrats act like authoritarian hell states are that much worse than them.
It's all slavery baby.
Proud cat mum, I love Snowy and Hijinks.

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The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:31 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Liriena wrote:Yes. And there's an argument to be made that they are at least indirectly involved, by way of the Organization of American States, who've enabled the coup while simultaneously stoking the flames of a new red scare.

Fuck Bolsonaro, fuck Macri, fuck Colombia's Leader, fuck Ecuador's leader, fuck Chile's leader, impeach them all.

We had something work for fucking once and people prospered, Bolivia especially needed it, they basically fucked over a people, this is against human rights.
Invade them?


Human rights invasions tend to end up with open air slave markets and a failed state. While I appreciate the Bill Kristol approach, it is perhaps unwise to say the least.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:31 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Liriena wrote:Not just the military. The police led the coup in Bolivia. And liberal parties here have a tendency to also be very authoritarian when opposed by popular classes or faced with a popular government. See: Piñera in Chile this year and Macri's violent repression of the protests against his social security reform in 2017.


Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Liriena wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Pinera froze like a punk instead of doubling down. Please do not do him any credit :^)

He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.


What a rookie mistake. Can't even get good dictators anymore smh tbh.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Fuck Bolsonaro, fuck Macri, fuck Colombia's Leader, fuck Ecuador's leader, fuck Chile's leader, impeach them all.

We had something work for fucking once and people prospered, Bolivia especially needed it, they basically fucked over a people, this is against human rights.
Invade them?


Human rights invasions tend to end up with open air slave markets and a failed state. While I appreciate the Bill Kristol approach, it is perhaps unwise to say the least.

Yeah, as much schadenfreude as I'd get from an American military intervention overthrowing a bunch of neoliberal ghouls, the historical record doesn't paint a promising picture.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9976
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Samadhi wrote:Didn't the guy try and get himself elected dodgily?
And like people protested.
And the military said were not going to go full socialist and kill civilians?
So the dodgy corrupt guy is standing down?

No. He won fair and square. You'd think a guy who supposedly rigged an election wouldn't win with just barely the ten percent gap between him and his opponent. That's some shitty ass rigging of elections if he didn't win with a clear majority.

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59601
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:33 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Liriena wrote:He only froze for, like, a week. Now he's pushing to give the police and military more power in repressing the protests against him because he can no longer ignore that it's his head that the Chilean people want to see roll, not just his cabinet's.


What a rookie mistake. Can't even get good dictators anymore smh tbh.

Perón was the last smart South American authoritarian.

There, I said it.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Samadhi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1563
Founded: Sep 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Samadhi » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:34 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Samadhi wrote:
Says Bolivia

:?:



Oh

This

https://www.news.com.au/world/breaking- ... 947f7007ac

I don't normally read news sites, they ain't worth shit.
But fuck having to actually talk to south Americans.
18 and female
Voluntaryist.
Enjoys watching social democrats act like authoritarian hell states are that much worse than them.
It's all slavery baby.
Proud cat mum, I love Snowy and Hijinks.

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