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Cartels could be easily taken care of

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Iwassoclose
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Cartels could be easily taken care of

Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:08 pm

Earlier saw that the cop that arrested el chapos son was gunned down in broad daylight. And I thinking why are these people even allowed to keep running around. Here is my solution allow the intelligence agencies, police, militias and the military to use force against them with no repucssion. One extra step further then what Brazil is currently exploring. This would be a temporary solution tasked by a coalition of people with different political views avoid claims of oppression until the cartels have been sufficiently wiped out.

Steps

1) intelligence agencies identify and post information about the cartels in local, regional and country wide bulletins

2) local/federal government create bounties, for every dead/alive cartel member bought in is given a credit

3) civilians get involved by getting rewarded or ratting out other civilians in authority who has been turned or a member of cartel in hiding

4) civilian militias or private contractors also should be involved

Rinse and repeat until their strangle hold is gone from the black and regular markets

Problem solved, what do you think?
Last edited by Farnhamia on Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Corrected typo in the title

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:10 pm

I very much doubt cartels can be completely wiped out. Where one is taken down another rises to take over and replace that one.
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Earthbound Immortal Squad
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Postby Earthbound Immortal Squad » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:11 pm

Nothing is that simple in real life. I respect your enthusiasm but there are far more variables to consider than simply wiping a group out and hoping for no repercussions.
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Postby Flarbinia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:16 pm

Earthbound Immortal Squad wrote:Nothing is that simple in real life. I respect your enthusiasm but there are far more variables to consider than simply wiping a group out and hoping for no repercussions.

The repercussions being a power vacuum and the gang wars that will be started by that power vacuum.

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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:16 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I very much doubt cartels can be completely wiped out. Where one is taken down another rises to take over and replace that one.


And they get taken down too until people are too afraid to poke their heads out

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:17 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I very much doubt cartels can be completely wiped out. Where one is taken down another rises to take over and replace that one.


And they get taken down too until people are too afraid to poke their heads out


You do know that many of the cartels in Mexico, for example, sprung from within other cartels, right?
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Mzeusia
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Postby Mzeusia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I very much doubt cartels can be completely wiped out. Where one is taken down another rises to take over and replace that one.


And they get taken down too until people are too afraid to poke their heads out

The cartels are very dangerous, and the govt probably doesn't want to risk a huge amount of bloodshed on the streets and have the value of the currency tank because of the uncertainty.
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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:24 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
And they get taken down too until people are too afraid to poke their heads out


You do know that many of the cartels in Mexico, for example, sprung from within other cartels, right?


And that others started after splitting off the military,yes.

The problem is that the authorities go in do one big bust and leave the infrastructure untouched for the underlings to exploit. Causing mini turf battles until things settle down and the authorities spend another few years before making another big move.

My solution is that it be a never ending war on cartels. As soon as they start fighting, let them kill of each other while going after all parties. Then do the same to whoever is next and so on until you have them cowed like in the US.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:26 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
You do know that many of the cartels in Mexico, for example, sprung from within other cartels, right?


And that others started after splitting off the military,yes.

The problem is that the authorities go in do one big bust and leave the infrastructure untouched for the underlings to exploit. Causing mini turf battles until things settle down and the authorities spend another few years before making another big move.

My solution is that it be a never ending war on cartels. As soon as they start fighting, let them kill of each other while going after all parties. Then do the same to whoever is next and so on until you have them cowed like in the US.


A never ending war with organized cartels will cause too much bloodshed and it won’t really stop them from forming.
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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:27 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
And that others started after splitting off the military,yes.

The problem is that the authorities go in do one big bust and leave the infrastructure untouched for the underlings to exploit. Causing mini turf battles until things settle down and the authorities spend another few years before making another big move.

My solution is that it be a never ending war on cartels. As soon as they start fighting, let them kill of each other while going after all parties. Then do the same to whoever is next and so on until you have them cowed like in the US.


A never ending war with organized cartels will cause too much bloodshed and it won’t really stop them from forming.


That's the point though. The alternative is have no solution and still have a lot of bloodshed.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:29 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
A never ending war with organized cartels will cause too much bloodshed and it won’t really stop them from forming.


That's the point though. The alternative is have no solution and still have a lot of bloodshed.


Your solution really doesn’t put a stop to the formation of organized cartels. Also, what makes you think these governments have the budget to keep a constant war against drug lords?
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:30 pm

You could call it The War on Drugs.

Seriously the cartels only disappear when Americans stop buying drugs. Which is never.
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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:33 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
That's the point though. The alternative is have no solution and still have a lot of bloodshed.


Your solution really doesn’t put a stop to the formation of organized cartels. Also, what makes you think these governments have the budget to keep a constant war against drug lords?


The point is to make them a non threat to the functioning of the civilian government.

You don't need to change much for the budget, you just change the operational mandate for these groups. As for the reward money they can add that into that budget, Mexico isn't exactly poor.
Last edited by Iwassoclose on Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anglia-Saxia
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Postby Anglia-Saxia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:34 pm

1- This is an great strategy/incentive to cartels: Make more cartels,so the government spends more money in us and soon they will be bankrupt and we will dominate the country!
2- Related with 1,this will be very costly
3- I don't think it's so easy to identify cartels members...
or/and them it will be just like War of Drugs 2.0
I like optimism,but it's not so simple here ( I have numbered the arguments in an random order,not in the order of steps OP have written)
Last edited by Anglia-Saxia on Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:35 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Your solution really doesn’t put a stop to the formation of organized cartels. Also, what makes you think these governments have the budget to keep a constant war against drug lords?


The point is to make them a non threat to the functioning of the civilian government.

You don't need to change much for the budget, you just change the operational mandate for these groups. As for the reward money they can add that into that bidget, Mexico isn't exactly poor.


The kind of intervention you’re suggesting requires financing and your average Mexican civilian oftentimes is just scraping by to give their families a life. What makes you think they would want to intervene in a never ending war against organized cartels? Or why do you think the government would invest on such an endeavor? It’s costly.
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Deacarsia
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Cartels could be easily taken care off

Postby Deacarsia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:38 pm

Step One: Legalize drugs
Step Two: Unilateral free trade

Problem solved

Note: Please do not do drugs! Drugs are bad! Just Say No!

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Deacarsia wrote:Step One: Legalize drugs
Step Two: Unilateral free trade

Problem solved

Note: Please do not do drugs! Drugs are bad! Just Say No!


Un-ironically, the legalization of marijuana in quite a few US states has provoked the cartels to take severe hits to their bread and butter.
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Anglia-Saxia
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Postby Anglia-Saxia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Deacarsia wrote:Step One: Legalize drugs
Step Two: Unilateral free trade

Problem solved

Note: Please do not do drugs! Drugs are bad! Just Say No!

This ^
Last edited by Anglia-Saxia on Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:43 pm

I remember we tried something like this in desperation in a war torn country. Then we found out its cheaper to just put them on your payroll and have them do evil shit for you.
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Griemvarant
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Postby Griemvarant » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:49 pm

Considering that the Mexican government is owned by the cartels and the lifespan of a non-cartel mayor, governor or other official is measured in weeks, there's no feasible way to oust the cartels through legal means. The cartels are the law, and any low-level police or other do-gooders will soon find themselves shut down at best and "suicided" at worst. The only way to undo this madness is through violent revolution: there need to be enough people in Mexico who're willing and able to fight for their future. Of course, the Mexican government knows this, which is why they continue to sell the "escape to America" line. If those who would stand against them are sent somewhere else, they can continue to oppress all the people who remain.
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:54 pm

God, this is incredibly naive, OP. Do you honestly think that the police and intelligence agencies are so stupid and bad at their jobs that it never occurred to them to put up "Wanted" notices or offer rewards for cartel members' capture?

The cartels are not powerful because police can't do basic police work. They're powerful because they hold a monopoly on billion dollar black market industries, make enough money to bribe anyone, operate in countries with few alternate opportunities for employment, and are complete merciless psychopaths.

The reason citizens haven't started hunting them down isn't because no one has thought of it before, it's because people who do try to fight back have a tendency to get buried alive, locked in a burning house, or publicly decapitated before they can even try. The reason government officials don't reward or help citizens is because most of them are in the pockets of the cartels and anyone who falls out of line or tries to usurp them gets similar treatment. I promise you, these people are for more organized, well trained, and ruthless than any "civilian militia" could hope to be. Try looking up real life people who tried to stand up to the cartels, go on a magical Google journey and see how well this heroic fantasy lives up.

We already know how to stop the cartels: Cut off their revenue. Their power comes from money, and that money comes from a demand for illicit goods and services. If those goods and services would stop being illicit and start being operated as legitimate business, people would stop going to them for that business and stop giving them money. We just don't like this solution because it involves us having to admit that our social etiquette is skewed and that not everything can be solved by acting like a superhero.

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Postby Totenborg » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:03 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
A never ending war with organized cartels will cause too much bloodshed and it won’t really stop them from forming.


That's the point though. The alternative is have no solution and still have a lot of bloodshed.

Nevermind the ineffectiveness against the cartels, what you're suggesting is a government able to act against its citizenry with no repercussions. You'd be replacing one evil with another. A fascist government is not a valid solution to drug cartels.
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:58 pm

Totenborg wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
That's the point though. The alternative is have no solution and still have a lot of bloodshed.

Nevermind the ineffectiveness against the cartels, what you're suggesting is a government able to act against its citizenry with no repercussions. You'd be replacing one evil with another. A fascist government is not a valid solution to drug cartels.


Lol...when going after well known murderers, rapists, and just plain utter scum is considered fascism. :lol2:
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:58 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:Earlier saw that the cop that arrested el chapos son was gunned down in broad daylight. And I thinking why are these people even allowed to keep running around. Here is my solution allow the intelligence agencies, police, militias and the military to use force against them with no repucssion. One extra step further then what Brazil is currently exploring. This would be a temporary solution tasked by a coalition of people with different political views avoid claims of oppression until the cartels have been sufficiently wiped out.

Steps

1) intelligence agencies identify and post information about the cartels in local, regional and country wide bulletins

2) local/federal government create bounties, for every dead/alive cartel member bought in is given a credit

3) civilians get involved by getting rewarded or ratting out other civilians in authority who has been turned or a member of cartel in hiding

4) civilian militias or private contractors also should be involved

Rinse and repeat until their strangle hold is gone from the black and regular markets

Problem solved, what do you think?

Yeah turning people into ratting out the Cartels will work except they tried that already you know what happens to those who rat out the Cartels?

The Cartel murders their entire family and extended family of said civilians in horribly brutal ways.

So you cashed in your bounty but your mother, sister, brother, uncle, Aunt, grandmother, and child were all tortured, raped, and then executed slowly and painfully.

BUT YOU GOT MONEY SO THAT MAKES IT OKAY!!!

Yeah that'll motivate civilians to do it.

Deacarsia wrote:Step One: Legalize drugs
Step Two: Unilateral free trade

Problem solved

Note: Please do not do drugs! Drugs are bad! Just Say No!

Cartels have owning stakes in multiple Mexican companies, your free trade just increased their profit margin.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:You could call it The War on Drugs.

Seriously the cartels only disappear when Americans stop buying drugs. Which is never.

No even if Americans stopped buying drugs they aren't going to stop buying Avocados, Auto parts, and other things made in Mexico that the Cartels now have a hand in.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:09 pm

Before even addressing cartels we have to stop criminalizing drug users.
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