by Gordano and Lysandus » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:38 pm
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:45 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:I've really no idea if a thread has already been made on this basis, and if so, I apologise vehemently. I also apologise if this isn't the right forum for it, it's been a long time since I was involved with NS way back and have only recently returned, so I'm a bit rusty.
Obviously this is meant to concern political and philosophical opinions, but I'm really curious to see and hear from other people whose opinions have changed on things, what has changed, and why.
For example, with regards to my own personal views, anyone who knew me four-five years ago would be well aware that I used to be far more left wing. Card carrying supporter of the Labour Party, somewhat pacifistic, drummed up with the Iraq Effect. I used to off-handedly reject austerity politics completely, viewing Keynesianism as some sort of mystical financial panacea. Used to be far more willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories too. And I used to be a hardcore secularist.
As time has gone on, I do think age has been a factor. As I've gotten older, and perhaps a little more world-weary, I don't have the same sort of vibrant political energy to subscribe to mass movements, and I don't feel the same sense of deep seated adolescent anger about anything and everything the government of the day has been doing. The politics of anger turns me off now, though whether that's to do with me moving further away from my teenage years or something else, I'm not honestly sure.
The political situation in the country is definitely another factor. Before 2015, the Labour Party was nowhere near as radical as it is today. Before 2017, the Tory Party was led by someone I could never support. I quickly learned to hate Corbynism, and I learned to like Mayism. That political conversion changed the perspectives I was listening to. Driven from one camp and into the arms of another, I definitely think I listen to a lot more centre right thought now that the centre left in my country has yielded largely to the far left. That change, however, isn't a consequence purely of that which has changed, as much as that which hasn't. My ideals on the constitution, political society and public decency undoubted contributed to my post-2015 estrangement from the Labour Party.
As I've stopped to listen to what the right have said about the state of the economy, and looked at the statistics, I've come out with a greater understanding of the necessity of austerity, and the consequences of national debt, than when I went in. Theresa May's conference speech last year, when it referred to the pitfalls of nationalised industry, gave me greater insight and understanding to just how burdensome and unwieldy nationalised industry could be - this coming from my previous youthful years when I wholeheartedly endorsed the calls for nationalisation from the left.
We are all, perhaps, chameleons. We change as our environment changes, and politics and philosophy are not immune to that environmental nurture. I'm really curious to see how others have changed, and why they have changed. What provokes us to re-evaluate even our most deeply held beliefs?
by Arthenius » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:50 pm
The United Provinces of North America wrote:Gordano and Lysandus wrote:I've really no idea if a thread has already been made on this basis, and if so, I apologise vehemently. I also apologise if this isn't the right forum for it, it's been a long time since I was involved with NS way back and have only recently returned, so I'm a bit rusty.
Obviously this is meant to concern political and philosophical opinions, but I'm really curious to see and hear from other people whose opinions have changed on things, what has changed, and why.
For example, with regards to my own personal views, anyone who knew me four-five years ago would be well aware that I used to be far more left wing. Card carrying supporter of the Labour Party, somewhat pacifistic, drummed up with the Iraq Effect. I used to off-handedly reject austerity politics completely, viewing Keynesianism as some sort of mystical financial panacea. Used to be far more willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories too. And I used to be a hardcore secularist.
As time has gone on, I do think age has been a factor. As I've gotten older, and perhaps a little more world-weary, I don't have the same sort of vibrant political energy to subscribe to mass movements, and I don't feel the same sense of deep seated adolescent anger about anything and everything the government of the day has been doing. The politics of anger turns me off now, though whether that's to do with me moving further away from my teenage years or something else, I'm not honestly sure.
The political situation in the country is definitely another factor. Before 2015, the Labour Party was nowhere near as radical as it is today. Before 2017, the Tory Party was led by someone I could never support. I quickly learned to hate Corbynism, and I learned to like Mayism. That political conversion changed the perspectives I was listening to. Driven from one camp and into the arms of another, I definitely think I listen to a lot more centre right thought now that the centre left in my country has yielded largely to the far left. That change, however, isn't a consequence purely of that which has changed, as much as that which hasn't. My ideals on the constitution, political society and public decency undoubted contributed to my post-2015 estrangement from the Labour Party.
As I've stopped to listen to what the right have said about the state of the economy, and looked at the statistics, I've come out with a greater understanding of the necessity of austerity, and the consequences of national debt, than when I went in. Theresa May's conference speech last year, when it referred to the pitfalls of nationalised industry, gave me greater insight and understanding to just how burdensome and unwieldy nationalised industry could be - this coming from my previous youthful years when I wholeheartedly endorsed the calls for nationalisation from the left.
We are all, perhaps, chameleons. We change as our environment changes, and politics and philosophy are not immune to that environmental nurture. I'm really curious to see how others have changed, and why they have changed. What provokes us to re-evaluate even our most deeply held beliefs?
I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!
by Cekoviu » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:57 pm
The United Provinces of North America wrote:I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become a Centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!
by Geneviev » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:58 pm
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:00 pm
Cekoviu wrote:I used to be an anarcho-primitivist, which speaks for itself...The United Provinces of North America wrote:I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become a Centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!
Referring to everybody who's white as Caucasian is much more offensive than anything commonly used by Democrats. By the way, I'm white; ergo, I'm an authority on this. Perhaps be a bit less sanctimonious?
by Exxosia » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:06 pm
by New Periapsis » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:07 pm
by Sovaal » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:11 pm
New Periapsis wrote:I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:15 pm
by Dangine » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:15 pm
by Sovaal » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:19 pm
Dangine wrote:I used to be pro free speech. I used to believe that things including harassment should not be illegal because harassment being illegal goes against the principle of freedom of speech. This all changed when I was debating with someone about a topic that had to do with freedom of speech and realized they were right. I view freedom of speech as freedom of all speech, including things like harassment. If I do not support that harassment should be legal then I can not view myself as someone who views free speech. It is called freedom of speech, not freedom of some speech.
by Geneviev » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:19 pm
New Periapsis wrote:I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.
by Napkizemlja » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:20 pm
Geneviev wrote:Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:20 pm
Sovaal wrote:Dangine wrote:I used to be pro free speech. I used to believe that things including harassment should not be illegal because harassment being illegal goes against the principle of freedom of speech. This all changed when I was debating with someone about a topic that had to do with freedom of speech and realized they were right. I view freedom of speech as freedom of all speech, including things like harassment. If I do not support that harassment should be legal then I can not view myself as someone who views free speech. It is called freedom of speech, not freedom of some speech.
So what do support then?
by Geneviev » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:22 pm
Napkizemlja wrote:Geneviev wrote:Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.
If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?
by Napkizemlja » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:23 pm
by Xmara » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:24 pm
by Bombadil » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:24 pm
New Periapsis wrote:I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:25 pm
by Sovaal » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:25 pm
Napkizemlja wrote:Geneviev wrote:Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.
If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?
by Geneviev » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:28 pm
The United Provinces of North America wrote:Geneviev wrote:Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.
Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!
by The United Provinces of North America » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm
Geneviev wrote:The United Provinces of North America wrote:Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!
I'd say being able to reconsider something as important to me as my belief in God would make me less weak, but that's a matter of opinion.
by Sovaal » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:30 pm
The United Provinces of North America wrote:Geneviev wrote:Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.
Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!
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