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Updated: Madam forces out Mmusi - the battle for the DA

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who should lead the Democratic Alliance (DA)?

Incumbent leader Mmusi Maimane
1
14%
Premier of the Western Cape Alan Winde
0
No votes
Opposition Whip John Steenhuisen
1
14%
Former leader Helen Zille
1
14%
Former leader Tony Leon
0
No votes
Johannesburg Mayor Herman Mashaba
0
No votes
Former Opposition Leader Lindiwe Mazibuko
0
No votes
Other (state which)
0
No votes
I hope they split as a party
1
14%
I hope they collapse as a party
3
43%
 
Total votes : 7

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New Socialist South Africa
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Updated: Madam forces out Mmusi - the battle for the DA

Postby New Socialist South Africa » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:02 pm

Update: Helen Zille is now the Federal Executive Chair of the DA. Mmusi Maimane has resigned as party leader after facing massive pressure from the "Old Progs" wing of the party to do so. Madam has beaten Mmusi for power over the DA.

A battle is brewing over the top positions within the Democratic Alliance, South Africa's official opposition party. The battle lines are rapidly being drawn between Maimane, the current leader of the party, and Helen Zille, the former leader of the party, who is pushing for Maimane to resign and make way for Alan Winde, the Premier of the Western Cape, who some see as a 'compromise candidate'. https://mg.co.za/article/2019-10-04-00-maimane-proposes-early-da-elections

Incumbent leader of the DA and Opposition Leader Mmusi Maimane became the first black leader of the traditionally white liberal party in 2015. Then just 34 years old, Maimane was a fresh face in the DA, replacing the then 64 year old Helen Zille, party leader and Premier of the Western Cape, the only province controlled by the DA, and the only one of the nine provinces not controlled by the ruling African National Congress (ANC). Maimane's youth, energy, and polished delivery couldn't quite cover for a lack of real gravitas of charisma however, and he has dogged by the perception that he is nothing more than a puppet leader, with Zille and other older white leaders pulling the strings behind the scenes. Maimane also frequently seemed unable to enforce discipline within the party, with Opposition Whip John Steenhuisen and other high ranking white members of the party, Mike Waters and Natasha Mazzone, criticising Maimane for saying that South Africans must confront “white privilege and black poverty” in order to bring about the true meaning of freedom. https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1915948/maimane-under-fire-from-senior-da-leaders-over-his-white-privilege-comments/

These criticisms came despite the fact that the white South African minority are still disproportionally better off economically, and black South Africans are still disproportionally worse off economically. According to a 2016 study by Samson Mbewe and Ingrid Woolard, the average black household held only 4% of the average white household, with the average 'Coloured' (mixed race) household owning 6% and the average Indian / Asian South African household owning 47% of the average white household. Put another way, for every 1 rand a held by the average ‘black’ and ‘Coloured’ household, the average ‘white’ household held R22.84 and R16.00 respectively. http://www.opensaldru.uct.ac.za/bitstream/handle/11090/843/2016_185_Saldruwp.pdf?sequence=1 (page 12)

Economic reality aside, Maimane's tenure over the party has hardly been stellar. In 2018 he oversaw the nasty internal battle that saw Cape Town Mayor Patrica "Tannie Pat" de Lille ousted from her post and expelled from the DA. None to happy about her unceremonious removal, "Tannie Pat" went and formed GOOD, a new center-left political popular with Western Cape Coloured voters. The party secured some 3% of the vote in the Western Cape in the 2019 elections, and about 0.4% nationally, enough to give then 2 of the 400 seats in the National Assembly, and 1 of the 72 seats in the Western Cape Provincial Parliament. https://ewn.co.za/2019/05/10/de-lille-grateful-for-all-good-support-after-bitter-divorce-from-da

However, GOOD's success among Western Cape Coloured voters was far from the DA's only issue in the 2019 elections. The DA hemorrhaged white Afrikaner conservatives, voters who had slowly been drifting into the party from 1999 onward, following the decline and eventual collapse of the New National Party (the successor of the National Party, which won power and implemented Apartheid in 1948, and governed South Africa uninterrupted for 46 years until 1994). Seemingly unhappy with the DA's socially progressive and transformation lip service, white Afrikaner conservatives instead flocked to the Vryheidsfront Plus (VF+) / Freedom Front Plus (FF+). All of that might have been fine, had Maimane been able to deliver new black middle class voters to the party, but he didn't. These voters either stayed home, or voted with the ANC under the fairly pro-business President Cyril Ramaphosa.

And so the DA dropped slightly in support in the 2019 elections, slipping from 22.23% to 20.77%, losing 5 seats in the process to drop down to 84 seats. Despite this fairly minimal drop, it was the first time the party had won a lower percentage of the vote share since 1994, ending the party's winning streak. Since then the party has also lost a slew of municipal by-elections, with the ANC picking up most of these seats.

All this still didn't seem to be enough of a reason to get rid of Maimane however, and the DA's leadership insisted he would remain leader. But then, in late September, it came to light that Maimane had been given a car, a white Toyota Fortuner, by Markus Jooste, a DA donor and the controversial former CEO of Steinhoff, who oversaw the collapse in the retail companies stock after the company was investigated for accounting irregularities. Maimane has called allegations that he is still using the car a "smear campaign". https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/national/2019-09-29-steinhoff-car-comes-back-to-haunt-underfire-maimane/

Maimane doesn't deny using the car initially, claiming he used it as leader of the DA to campaign in the Western Cape, but states that some weeks after the Steinhoff scandal broke he returned the car to Steinhoff. The DA's Finance committee chair Dion Geroge has said that Maimane did return the car, and that, in regards to the allegations that Maimane is not paying full market price for the house he and his family are renting in Cape Town, that Maimane is paying rent each month. Maimane has criticised these attacks, suggesting that those within the DA who are "against diversity" and who want to reclaim the "old DA" are behind these attacks. https://ewn.co.za/2019/10/04/da-clears-maimane-of-wrongdoing-over-steinhoff-car-ct-home

Maimane appears to be referring to the likes of former DA leader Tony Leon, who has encouraged him to step down, as well as former party leader Helen Zille, who has been working with the pro-DA Institute of Race Relations (IRR) since her retirement, but who now intents to stand for the vacant Federal Executive chairperson position. https://mg.co.za/article/2019-10-09-old-and-young-face-off-in-da-battle. One of Zille's colleagues at the IRR, Hermann Pretorius, recently called for Maimane to be replaced as party leader by Western Cape Premier Alan Winde, a call which Zille did not contradict or criticise.

Maimane has defiantly refused to step down however, and a potentially nasty internal battle looks set ahead. On the one side sit Maimane and the DA's black caucus, mostly younger and middle aged middle class black South Africans, who are trying to add some calls for gradually addressing racial inequality and other racial issues to the parties centrist capitalist agenda.

On the other side are Zille, Leon, and the old "Progs", older white liberals who protested against Apartheid, but who were avowedly non-violent and who never sought any radical changes. Favouring "Qualified Franchise" (which would have set educational and wealth qualifications to be able to vote) as late as the 1970s, the Progs were hardly the radical Progressives the Apartheid state made them out to be at the time, and were insistent throughout on their support for capitalism, and against any transformative redistribution of wealth.

Caught in the middle are the likes of Alan Winde, who has [openly] declined to challenge Maimane, yet who even now may be positioning himself as the compromise candidate to try hold the fracturing party together, not by inspiring them, but just by not being utterly intolerable to the black caucus, while being exactly the old Progs want.

Herman Mashaba, the Mayor of Johannesburg, South Africa's largest city, seems to be siding with Maimane, likening the IRR's influence on the DA to the Gupta family's well documented influence over the ANC during President Jacob Zuma's tenure, thanks to their corrupt dealings with Zuma. Gabriel Crouse of the IRR, has said that Mashaba’s comparison is unfair because unlike the Guptas they were not "stealing money from poor people and funneling it", but that they were simply "injecting ideas into the public domain". https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/irr-hits-back-at-herman-mashaba-over-out-of-hand-comments-34567140 Mashaba is a controversial figure himself, popular with some for his "rags to riches" story and Libertarian capitalist ideas, unpopular with others for the same reason. He has recently also refused to apologies following a spate of deadly xenophobic attacks in Johannesburg against immigrants, suggesting that the issue is that the ruling ANC is not enforcing border controls strictly enough, allowing illegal immigrants into the country. https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/xenophobic-violence-mashaba-says-he-has-nothing-to-apologise-for-20190918

So what do you think? Will Maimane hold on and tell Zille and Leon to fuck off? Will Zille and Leon oust Maimane and instate Winde in his place? If so will Winde improve the standing of the party? Or will it just entrench the DA's reputation as the "white" party? Or will someone else come out of nowhere and snatch up the dangling position of party leader from the jaws of opportunity? And if so then who? And will they lead the party to victory, or into the gutter?

Possible contenders:

Incumbent leader Mmusi Maimane - 39 years old leader. Popular among black middle class. Lacking in Charisma.

Premier of the Western Cape Alan Winde - 54 years old. Compromise candidate. Remarkably uninteresting.

Opposition Whip John Steenhuisen - 43 years old. Decent orator. Insufferable git.

Former leader Helen Zille - 68 years old. Experienced and tough. Prone to twitter rants about the upsides of colonialism.

Former leader Tony Leon - 62 years old. Experienced. Out of touch and uninteresting.

Johannesburg Mayor Herman Mashaba - 60 years old. Rags to riches story. Xenophobic.

Former Opposition Leader Lindiwe Mazibuko - 39 years old. Talented Harvard graduate. Hasn't been in active politics since 2014.

Personally I'd quite like to see the party fracture in two, with the black caucus either holding onto power and driving the party to become center-left, with the Old Progs going off to form a new center right party for the white middle class and elite, or with the black caucus leaving to form a new centrist party for the black middle class, while the old Progs 'take back' their old party. South Africa's Proportional Representation system would allow both the hold some seats, and it would be good to watch often DA supporters have to clearly pick a side, rather than expressing vague support for the broad centrist mess of conflicting ideas that the party currently is.
Last edited by New Socialist South Africa on Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:07 pm

As interesting as it might be to see the DA split in two along ideological-and possibly racial-lines, I'd rather keep Maimune in power myself. The ANC is getting steadily weaker with each election that comes around, and South Africa needs something that isn't the EFF to replace it if the time comes.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:08 am

Alan Winde is fairly competent but it really is a sign that what the DA needs is some good candidates to put forward and an actual idea of what the party stands for. Mmusi Maimane staying as leader would probably be for the best even if he's not that great.

New Socialist South Africa wrote:Personally I'd quite like to see the party fracture in two, with the black caucus either holding onto power and driving the party to become center-left, with the Old Progs going off to form a new center right party for the white middle class and elite, or with the black caucus leaving to form a new centrist party for the black middle class, while the old Progs 'take back' their old party. South Africa's Proportional Representation system would allow both the hold some seats, and it would be good to watch often DA supporters have to clearly pick a side, rather than expressing vague support for the broad centrist mess of conflicting ideas that the party currently is.

That sounds like the worst idea possible. With the massively xenophobic and racist EFF on the rise and the ANC on the way out the last thing needed is to make it easier for basically the new National Party to take power.
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New Socialist South Africa
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Postby New Socialist South Africa » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:01 am

Heloin wrote:Alan Winde is fairly competent but it really is a sign that what the DA needs is some good candidates to put forward and an actual idea of what the party stands for. Mmusi Maimane staying as leader would probably be for the best even if he's not that great.

New Socialist South Africa wrote:Personally I'd quite like to see the party fracture in two, with the black caucus either holding onto power and driving the party to become center-left, with the Old Progs going off to form a new center right party for the white middle class and elite, or with the black caucus leaving to form a new centrist party for the black middle class, while the old Progs 'take back' their old party. South Africa's Proportional Representation system would allow both the hold some seats, and it would be good to watch often DA supporters have to clearly pick a side, rather than expressing vague support for the broad centrist mess of conflicting ideas that the party currently is.

That sounds like the worst idea possible. With the massively xenophobic and racist EFF on the rise and the ANC on the way out the last thing needed is to make it easier for basically the new National Party to take power.


I have my own disagreements with the EFF, but it hardly makes sense to call them xenophobic. Indeed, if anything they've been very pro-immigrant, stating that they want Africans to be exempt from South Africa's immigration laws, and has taken a firm stance against xenophobia (https://www.nwivisas.com/nwi-blog/south-africa/eff-calls-for-scrapping-of-immigration-laws-for-africans/ and https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-02-04-eff-manifesto-malema-takes-a-calculated-gamble-with-anti-xenophobic-rhetoric/).

This is at the same time as the ANC, and the DA in particular have been dialing up their support for immigration restrictions, with both campaigning in 2019 to "secure our borders". The DA's mayor in Johannesburg, Herman Mashaba, also refused to apologies following a wave of xenophobic violence in the city, and has blamed the ANC for causing the violence for being too lax in their control of the border, and in allowing in too many immigrants.

I certainly don't trust them, but I wouldn't go as far as to call them the new National Party, in my mind that title goes to the VF+, and their allies in AfriForum.
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X
"The soul of a nation can be seen in the way it treats its children" - Nelson Mandela
The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

"What makes a man

Strength enough to build a home
Time enough to hold a child
and Love enough to break a heart".

Terry Pratchett


Olthar wrote:Anyone who buys "x-ray specs" expecting them to be real deserves to lose their money.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:10 am

I don't really know enough about South African politics to comment atm, but I'll follow this thread, and thanks for making it.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:05 pm

New Socialist South Africa wrote:
Heloin wrote:Alan Winde is fairly competent but it really is a sign that what the DA needs is some good candidates to put forward and an actual idea of what the party stands for. Mmusi Maimane staying as leader would probably be for the best even if he's not that great.


That sounds like the worst idea possible. With the massively xenophobic and racist EFF on the rise and the ANC on the way out the last thing needed is to make it easier for basically the new National Party to take power.


I have my own disagreements with the EFF, but it hardly makes sense to call them xenophobic. Indeed, if anything they've been very pro-immigrant, stating that they want Africans to be exempt from South Africa's immigration laws, and has taken a firm stance against xenophobia (https://www.nwivisas.com/nwi-blog/south-africa/eff-calls-for-scrapping-of-immigration-laws-for-africans/ and https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-02-04-eff-manifesto-malema-takes-a-calculated-gamble-with-anti-xenophobic-rhetoric/).

This is at the same time as the ANC, and the DA in particular have been dialing up their support for immigration restrictions, with both campaigning in 2019 to "secure our borders". The DA's mayor in Johannesburg, Herman Mashaba, also refused to apologies following a wave of xenophobic violence in the city, and has blamed the ANC for causing the violence for being too lax in their control of the border, and in allowing in too many immigrants.

I certainly don't trust them, but I wouldn't go as far as to call them the new National Party, in my mind that title goes to the VF+, and their allies in AfriForum.

The party that has done nothing aside from fuel hate and bigotry in South Africa since it's inception has called for easing immigration control? That's quite funny really. I've heard Malema being called a Black Botha before but maybe he's decided to take the EFF done the path of African Harmony, so long as you're Black.

You think I'm defending the ANC or the DA for their stupid attempts at winning over the votes of bigots by pandering. Hell no, the ANC and more importantly the DA should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Honestly the only political parties in South Africa that seem to know what they want are the VF+ and maybe the IFP depending on the week (I'm not endorsing either by saying that). The ANC are a bunch of old crocks, the EFF are a bunch of racist xenophobes who have decided to to be less xenophobic to win votes, and the DA have no idea where they fit in to this.
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A z a n i a
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Postby A z a n i a » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:29 pm

As a dedicated AZAPO voter, I like to sit back and watch the other political parties implode.
Also, "Prone to tweets about the upsides of colonialism" is hilarious.
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Postby Costa Fierro » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:10 pm

I've seen videos of John Steenhuisen in the South African Parliament, and his oratory skills are fantastic. Certainly could do with someone like him on our side of the Southern Hemisphere.
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New Socialist South Africa
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Postby New Socialist South Africa » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:38 am

In a new development in this emerging leadership battle, Helen Zille has been elected as the DA's federal executive council chair, returning her to an influential position of power within the party. However, Zille still remains in a lower position of power to Mmusi Maimane, who remains the party leader. Zille beat Mike Waters, Athol Trollip and Thomas Walters in order to secure the post. Of the three, her strongest contender was Athol Trollip, the DA's former mayor of Port Elizabeth, the party's Federal Chair, who will thus remain in his position. Trollip was by Maimane's side during the DA's slight decline in support in the 2019 elections, and appears to be a fairly uncontroversial party loyalist. https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2019-10-21-social-media-reacts-to-helen-zilles-appointment-as-the-das-federal-executive-council-chair/

By comparison, Zille is a more polarising figure. She remains popular with many of the party's "Old Prog" wing, the wing that most clearly reflects the party's roots as an anti-Apartheid white liberal party during Apartheid, and which espouses a commitment to capitalism and non-racialism in post-Apartheid South Africa. However, Zille is prone to controversial tweets, including one where she argued about the benefits of colonialism. The tweet, from March 2017, was as follows:

“For those claiming legacy of colonialism was only negative, think of our independent judiciary, transport infrastructure, piped water, etc. Would we have had a transition into specialised health care and medication without colonial influence? Just be honest, please.” https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/helen-zille-defends-colonialism-tweets-again-20784079

In addition to being remarkably tone deaf in post-Apartheid South Africa, further reflected a gross misunderstanding of the history of colonialism in South Africa. The supposedly "independent judiciary" of the colonial era took up no issue with slavery, which was only ended due to the external decision from the United Kingdom to finally end first the slave trade and to then later phase out slavery itself. This judiciary also took no issue with later segregation and land removals. During the Apartheid regime, the 'independent judiciary' sentenced Nelson Mandela and other ANC leaders to life imprisonment, took no issue with the banning of the ANC and other struggle organisations, and handed down the death penalty to numerous anti-Apartheid insurgents, including Solomon Mahlangu.

On the issue of "transport infrastructure" (rails and roads) and "piped water", both of these were disproportionally build by poorly paid and exploited black labour, and both were disproportionally enjoyed in cities, which were overwhelmingly designated in "white" areas. Both before and during Apartheid, many rural "black areas" had access to neither, with some rural areas still lacking access to these basic services today. The discussion on specialised health care and medication itself also leaves out the fact that nearly 9 / 10ths of the KhoeSan population in the Cape was wiped out by a smallpox epidemic brought in by Europeans, which added to the San people already being hunted as "vermin" by Cape commandos.

Despite facing significant backlash, Zille doubled down on her tweet.

Zille may end up appealing to some of the white Afrikaner conservatives who left the party in droves in 2019, to go and vote for the right wing populist Vryheidsfront Plus (VF+), but she is controversial among many of the party's middle-class black voters, who are deeply frustrated by her simultaneous defenses of the 'positives of colonialism', while insisting that she is committed to non-racialism.

Whether Zille's appointment foregrounds a bigger showdown between the party's black caucus, and the party's "Old Prog" wing, remains to be seen.
Last edited by New Socialist South Africa on Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X
"The soul of a nation can be seen in the way it treats its children" - Nelson Mandela
The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

"What makes a man

Strength enough to build a home
Time enough to hold a child
and Love enough to break a heart".

Terry Pratchett


Olthar wrote:Anyone who buys "x-ray specs" expecting them to be real deserves to lose their money.

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New Socialist South Africa
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Postby New Socialist South Africa » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:08 am

Herman Mashaba, the Mayor of Johannesburg and a member of the DA, has announced his resignation. He will step down on the 27th of November, which will allow the DA to put forward a new candidate to be the mayor of South Africa's most populous city. In his lengthy resignation, Mashaba said that "I cannot reconcile myself with a group of people who believe that race is irrelevant in the discussion of inequality and poverty in South Africa in 2019". This is a clear critique of Zille and her supporters, who have argued strongly for "non-racialism", but take this to mean actively avoiding or shutting down discussions on the lasting racialised nature of inequality in South Africa. https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-end-of-the-road-for-herman-mashaba-joburg-mayor-briefs-media-amid-resignation-speculation-20191021-4

While I actually agree more with Mashaba than with Zille when it comes to race issues, I'm delighted to see him resigning. Mashaba's handling of the outbreak of xenophobic violence in Johannesburg earlier this year was disgraceful, and he has shown that he is unafraid to plat on xenophobic fears and rhetoric to win support.

Who the DA chooses as his replacement, and whether they can even appoint a new mayor, awaits to be seen. The ANC are actually the largest part in the Johannesburg city council, holding 121 of the 270 seats. The DA are the second largest, with 104, the EFF in third with 30, with smaller parties controlling 15 seats. The EFF helped vote Mashaba into office in 2016, as a way to form a united opposition against the ANC, but its unclear if they will offer such support again, especially if the DA puts forward a candidate from the Zille camp. Some serious dealing will need to be done by both the ANC and DA if either wants to install one of their own as the new mayor, and while the EFF are the obvious kingmakers in Johannesburg, the smaller parties could play a key role as well.
Last edited by New Socialist South Africa on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X
"The soul of a nation can be seen in the way it treats its children" - Nelson Mandela
The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

"What makes a man

Strength enough to build a home
Time enough to hold a child
and Love enough to break a heart".

Terry Pratchett


Olthar wrote:Anyone who buys "x-ray specs" expecting them to be real deserves to lose their money.

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:07 am

Maimane has resigned as head of the DA: https://www.yahoo.com/news/leader-south-africa-main-opposition-154609328.html

This...this is really bad. Now the DA's going to spend the next year fighting over a successor while the EFF works to position themselves as the real opposition.
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New Socialist South Africa
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Postby New Socialist South Africa » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 am

Shrillland wrote:Maimane has resigned as head of the DA: https://www.yahoo.com/news/leader-south-africa-main-opposition-154609328.html

This...this is really bad. Now the DA's going to spend the next year fighting over a successor while the EFF works to position themselves as the real opposition.


I expected Mmusi might get forced out, but this happened far quicker than I thought it would. The Old Progs have clearly reasserted their position of power over the party. A friend of mine posted the rather apt joke: "Mmusi Bye-mane".

I think the interesting questions now are twofold:

1) What does Mmusi Maimane do next? Does he remain a loyal DA supporter? Does he resign from active politics altogether and go back to be a preacher? Does he leave the DA and go try join another political party, maybe go try patch things over with Patricia de Lille and join GOOD? Or will he form his own political breakaway party, to represent the black middle class?

Honestly, its difficult to say. I don't know if Maimane has the guts to form a new political party, and he may just be so disillusioned with party politics that he pulls a Lindiwe Mazibuko and nopes right out of active politics. Its telling how toxic the DA can be to black members who disagree with white leaders (like Zille) that Maimane is now the DA's second non-white leader in parliament, and the second one to be driven out. Maybe he and Mazibuko can go form a party together, maybe even convince Mashaba to join it, but I somewhat doubt that. All three seem so revolted by politics after their time in the DA that they're just leaving it completely.

2) What do the DA's black voters, particularly its black middle class voters, do in response? Do they stay with the DA? Do they move over to the ANC under Ramaphosa, with the ANC establishing itself as the party of the black working and middle class? Do they splinter off and join parties like the IFP, UDM, GOOD and COPE? Or do they form a new political party for the black middle class?

Again, its difficult to say. I've already seen at least one black DA voter arguing vociferously that Helen Zille is a good leader, and that she isn't trying to seize back control of the party, but that was before Maimane resigned, so that might have changed. I suspect many black DA voters will stay with the party, especially if Maimane does, but I suspect that for a significant number this is also going to be the last straw, especially if Maimane leaves the DA altogether. Whether they stay with the DA, go and vote ANC, form a new party, or just stay home and don't come out to vote at all remains to be seen.

EDIT: Maimane may also face an internal disciplinary hearing within the DA for "bringing the party into disrepute " for his resignation speech in Parliament. He is also reportedly going to be "forced out of Parliament" by the DA federal Executive, now headed by the Madam herslef, Helen Zille. All this might be a bridge too far for Maimane, and he has stated that "“I have come to the conclusion that perhaps @Our_DA is not the correct vehicle to move South Africa forward”, suggesting he may leave the party, and possibly form a political splinter party.

John Steenhuisen is already being suggested as Maimane's replacement as the DA's leader in Parliament. He is a capable debater, but also an insufferable twat and an outspoken member of the Zille camp. His appointment will hardly "patch things over" with the Maimane camp and black voters. https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/mmusi-maimane-replacement-what-role-parliament/.

I'd have preferred to see Maimane throw Zille, Steenhuisen and the rest of the white "liberals" out on their asses and see them have to build a party from the ground up, but now that the Old Progs have seized back control of the party, I think it is high time Maimane, Mazibuko and some other disgruntled ex-DA black leaders go form a new party of their own, and stop bowing and scraping for Madam Zille and her sycophants.
Last edited by New Socialist South Africa on Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby New Socialist South Africa » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:02 am

Here is a telling edited image of an old DA poster from the 2014 election. From left to right:

Then DA Mayor of Cape Town Patricia de Lille - forced out of the DA in 2018, formed GOOD
Then Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly Lindiwe Mazibuko - left over differences with Zille, studying at Harvard now
Then DA candidate for Premier of Gauteng Mmusi Maimane - DA leader from 2015 to 2019, forced out by Zille
Then Leader of the DA Helen Zille - still pulling the strings of power in the party, now as Federal Executive Chair

Image
Last edited by New Socialist South Africa on Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I find that offensive" is never a sound counter argument.
"Men in general are quick to believe that which they wish to be true." - Gaius Julius Caesar
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X
"The soul of a nation can be seen in the way it treats its children" - Nelson Mandela
The wealth of humanity should be determined by that of the poorest individual.

"What makes a man

Strength enough to build a home
Time enough to hold a child
and Love enough to break a heart".

Terry Pratchett


Olthar wrote:Anyone who buys "x-ray specs" expecting them to be real deserves to lose their money.


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