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[DRAFT] A Duty to Give

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Conexia
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Founded: Aug 09, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[DRAFT] A Duty to Give

Postby Conexia » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Hello! This is my first issue, so don't expect a work of art. But how am I to get better if I don't post it here?

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[TITLE]A Duty To Give

[VALIDITY]ineligable to nations with slavery

[DESCRIPTION] Recently, the idea of a Volunteer Hour program has been implemented in schools across @@NAME@@, where students must complete 10 hours of community service per year to graduate. Now, however, advisors have suggested that all citizens be required to complete 10 hours of community service.

[OPTION] ”Are you kidding me!” shouts @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, CEO of NAT-U-RAL Co. from his limosuine. “I don’t have time to go out and pick up trash. I’m doing the world a service by supplying the world with abundant amounts of natural gas! Surely that counts as community service.” He slowly rolls his window up before driving off.

[EFFECT] citizens complete their community service hours during the first 10 hours of the work week

[OPTION] Your cousin, who is sitting next to you, pipes in. “I think that it’s a great idea. 10 Hours of community service can change a lot, just think of how much could change if everyone had to do it. Of course, some people won’t complete their 10 Hours, but they can reflect on that in prison!” She excitedly bounces out of the room.

[EFFECT] woefully uninformed senior citizens are sent to prison for failing to complete their community service hours

[OPTION] “What’s so good about community service anyway?” says @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, your cranky Head of Department of Education. “It’s just a waste of everyone’s time. If you go and pick up trash, someone will just litter again. We could be spending our time focusing on the education of our students, or strengthening our military, but instead we’re worrying about serving our community, who should be serving themselves!”

[EFFECT] @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ tend to ignore fellow citizens in need


For Draft 2, I almost rewrote the entire issue based off of the feedback I received. I changed the Description to fix the problems with player autonomy, and I changed the Options and Effects to make the Issue more realistic. I contemplated leaving Option 2 out entirely, but let me know if I should keep it or trash it.
[TITLE]A Duty To Give

[VALIDITY]ineligable to nations with slavery, ineligable to nations without private schooling

[DESCRIPTION] Recently, the idea of a Volunteer Hour program has been implemented in some private schools across @@NAME@@, where students must complete 10 hours of community service per year to graduate. Now, parents of students in public schools have proposed implementing this in all schools across @@NAME@@.

[OPTION] “My son sits around on his butt all day, I think getting out and helping the community will be good for him,” says @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@ as she gestures to her son, who rolls his eyes. “Not only will it help people in need, it gives the students a chance to be a part of their community and a proud citizen of @@NAME@@.”

[EFFECT] students who fail to complete their community service hours fail to complete their education

[OPTION] “We don’t have the time to do 10 Hours of Community Service with all the homework and projects our schools send home,” her son tells you. “It would be hard to motivate @@NAME@@’s students unless there was a reward for completing their service hours… something like some @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@.”

[EFFECT] students only “volunteer” for community service if they’re paid

[OPTION] Your cousin, who is sitting next to you, pipes in. “I think that it’s a great idea. 10 Hours of community service can change a lot. It’s great that students will be doing this, but just think of how much could change if every able-bodied adult had to do it. Of course, some people won’t complete their 10 Hours, but they can reflect on that in prison!” She quickly sits down and begins writing down ideas for service hours.

[EFFECT] lazy basement dwellers are sent to prison for failing to complete their community service hours

[OPTION] ”Are you kidding me!” shouts @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, CEO of NAT-U-RAL Co. from his limosuine. “I don’t have time to go out and pick up trash. I’m doing the world a service by supplying the world with abundant amounts of natural gas! Surely that counts as community service… In fact, these kids could volunteer at my plant, if you don’t mind, of course.” He slowly rolls his window up before driving off.

[EFFECT] @@DEMONYM@@ students quickly complete their service hours, and then some


I fixed up some of the errors in the Options, and I made some changes to the effects of options 1, 2, and 3 (even though they're not much funnier, I might have to work on them a bit more). I also changed the Description so that it would only include Junior High Schools and High Schools.
[TITLE]A Duty To Give

[VALIDITY]ineligable to nations with slavery, ineligable to nations without private schooling

[DESCRIPTION] Recently, the idea of a Volunteer Hour program has been implemented in some private high schools and junior high schools across @@NAME@@, where students must complete 10 hours of community service per year to graduate. Now, parents of students in public high schools and junior high schools have proposed implementing this in all schools across @@NAME@@.

[OPTION] “My son sits around on his butt all day, I think getting out and helping the community will be good for him,” says @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@ as she gestures to her son, who rolls his eyes. “Not only will it help people in need, it gives the students a chance to be a part of their community and a proud citizen of @@NAME@@.”

[EFFECT] students spend more time doing community service than doing homework

[OPTION] “We don’t have the time to do 10 Hours of Community Service with all the homework and projects our schools send home,” her son tells you. “It would be hard to motivate @@NAME@@’s students unless there was a reward for completing their service hours… something like some @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@.”

[EFFECT] every student makes sure to do extra community service “for the community”

[OPTION] Your cousin, who is sitting next to you, pipes in. “I think that it’s a great idea. 10 Hours of community service can change a lot. It’s great that students will be doing this, but just think of how much could change if every able-bodied adult had to do it. Of course, some people won’t complete their 10 Hours, but they can reflect on that in prison!” She quickly begins writing down ideas for service hours.

[EFFECT] people who do not complete their community service outside of prison end up completing it in prison

[OPTION] ”Are you kidding me!” shouts @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, CEO of NAT-U-RAL Co. from his limosuine. “I don’t have time to go out and pick up trash. I’m doing the world a service by supplying the world with abundant amounts of natural gas! Surely that counts as community service… In fact, these kids could volunteer at my plant, if you don’t mind, of course.” He slowly rolls his window up before driving off.

[EFFECT] @@DEMONYM@@ students quickly complete their service hours, and then some


Notes: While I did look through the issues and could not find anything resembling this idea, I might have missed something. If I did, I apologize.
Like I said, this is my first attempt at writing an issue, so please let me know what I need to work on.
Last edited by Conexia on Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Fontenais
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Posts: 89
Founded: May 18, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Fontenais » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:18 pm

Conexia wrote:[DESCRIPTION] Recently, the idea of a Volunteer Hour program has been implemented in schools across @@NAME@@, where students must complete 10 hours of community service per year to graduate. Now, however, advisors have suggested that all citizens be required to complete 10 hours of community service.

I suspect the issue editors won't be too happy about the description involving a 10 hour volunteer program being implemented across schools because that seems like a high-level decision and leader didn't sign off on it - potentially a breach of player autonomy?

Maybe a better description would involve something like how a soup kitchen for the homeless or an animal shelter or something recently closed down because of a lack of volunteers.

Also, I don't remember reading about a similar issue. I have no idea if its already been covered
Last edited by Fontenais on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Posts: 19718
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:04 am

Yes, there's a slight autonomy issue here, but it's a good issue idea.

A way around this might be to frame is so that some independent schools have piloted this scheme to great local acclaim, and to have the issue options be along the lines of:
1 - Yes, roll it out to all schools across the nation.
2 - Why just kids? Let's have adults do it too.
3 - If the government wants work, they should pay. Offer kids payment for participation in public work.
4 - Actually, the private sector could cover this, if you got rid of pesky child labour laws.

Don't have to follow that exactly, just suggesting a narrative layout that would fit better with how issues work in this game.

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Australian rePublic
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:58 pm

This is silly. Do all citizens have to participate? What about the homeless? Aren't they ones who are supposed to be helped? And how do they get around? What about those who live rural areas with no car? What about the disabled? Aren't the disabled the ones who are supposed to be helped? Imagine disabled people being forced to help other disabled? What about people who legitimately have no time on their hands? I'm not talking about CEOs who spend their lunch breaks on yatches? I'm talking about my mother, who stayed up till 3 am every night looking after her children, elderly disabled parents, the house whilat working full time in a middle class household. Small busieness owners bust their arse in day-in-day-out. I know small business owners who wake up at 4 am and are asleep by 7, with maybe a half of TV for relaxation whenever they find the time. As someone who tried to start my business, I know how difficult it is. Farmers- farmers work hard, especially in times of drought. The fact that you think that they only people who "have no time" on their hands are CEOs who won't do anything outside of their cushy jobs is quite franckly an insult to anyone who legitimately doesn't have any time on their hands. And whilst we're at it, let's talk about CEOs with cushy jobs. Many of them started off as poor and worked their way up. What sbout people who look after their disabled parents/children? Why should they have to look after different people? It's a logistical nightmare. There's a reason why governments don't implent this stuff IRL, and if it can't work IRL, it can't work in NS. The closest system to this IRL is probably China's social credit score system, which rewards people who do community service. I doubt that a country of 1.3 billion hasn't figured out the logistics of who should be elidgable for community service to determine their social ranking. Look into that and see what the logistics are like
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
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Conexia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Conexia » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:56 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:This is silly. Do all citizens have to participate? What about the homeless? Aren't they ones who are supposed to be helped? And how do they get around? What about those who live rural areas with no car? What about the disabled? Aren't the disabled the ones who are supposed to be helped? Imagine disabled people being forced to help other disabled? What about people who legitimately have no time on their hands? I'm not talking about CEOs who spend their lunch breaks on yatches? I'm talking about my mother, who stayed up till 3 am every night looking after her children, elderly disabled parents, the house whilat working full time in a middle class household. Small busieness owners bust their arse in day-in-day-out. I know small business owners who wake up at 4 am and are asleep by 7, with maybe a half of TV for relaxation whenever they find the time. As someone who tried to start my business, I know how difficult it is. Farmers- farmers work hard, especially in times of drought. The fact that you think that they only people who "have no time" on their hands are CEOs who won't do anything outside of their cushy jobs is quite franckly an insult to anyone who legitimately doesn't have any time on their hands. And whilst we're at it, let's talk about CEOs with cushy jobs. Many of them started off as poor and worked their way up. What sbout people who look after their disabled parents/children? Why should they have to look after different people? It's a logistical nightmare. There's a reason why governments don't implent this stuff IRL, and if it can't work IRL, it can't work in NS. The closest system to this IRL is probably China's social credit score system, which rewards people who do community service. I doubt that a country of 1.3 billion hasn't figured out the logistics of who should be elidgable for community service to determine their social ranking. Look into that and see what the logistics are like

Actually, the reason I included the CEO saying he had no time is to show how much of a selfish prick some of these wealthy people can be. I understand the limitations of this, but I could work around those or implement them into the issue. I'm sure most people could find enough time to do 10 hours of community service out of 8760 hours a year. As for the physically and mentally disabled, I could make the case that these people do plenty of community service. Not all community service is picking up trash or volunteering at a soup kitchen. There are loads of different activities and service projects that I have seen mentally and physically disabled people complete firsthand, with little to no difficulty.

You made good points about this system being a logistical nightmare, which is why I have considered changing it to students instead of the entire population. Or, instead of simply every citizen volunteering 10 hours a year, just able-bodied adults under a certain age. That's much easier to work with than an entire population.

As for this system not working IRL, I can agree to an extent. With the current draft, it likely would not work, however, this is not final, and I've yet to make the changes necessary to make it practical. That being said, it is a draft, and I thank you for your criticism.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:08 pm

Conexia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:This is silly. Do all citizens have to participate? What about the homeless? Aren't they ones who are supposed to be helped? And how do they get around? What about those who live rural areas with no car? What about the disabled? Aren't the disabled the ones who are supposed to be helped? Imagine disabled people being forced to help other disabled? What about people who legitimately have no time on their hands? I'm not talking about CEOs who spend their lunch breaks on yatches? I'm talking about my mother, who stayed up till 3 am every night looking after her children, elderly disabled parents, the house whilat working full time in a middle class household. Small busieness owners bust their arse in day-in-day-out. I know small business owners who wake up at 4 am and are asleep by 7, with maybe a half of TV for relaxation whenever they find the time. As someone who tried to start my business, I know how difficult it is. Farmers- farmers work hard, especially in times of drought. The fact that you think that they only people who "have no time" on their hands are CEOs who won't do anything outside of their cushy jobs is quite franckly an insult to anyone who legitimately doesn't have any time on their hands. And whilst we're at it, let's talk about CEOs with cushy jobs. Many of them started off as poor and worked their way up. What sbout people who look after their disabled parents/children? Why should they have to look after different people? It's a logistical nightmare. There's a reason why governments don't implent this stuff IRL, and if it can't work IRL, it can't work in NS. The closest system to this IRL is probably China's social credit score system, which rewards people who do community service. I doubt that a country of 1.3 billion hasn't figured out the logistics of who should be elidgable for community service to determine their social ranking. Look into that and see what the logistics are like

Actually, the reason I included the CEO saying he had no time is to show how much of a selfish prick some of these wealthy people can be.

Yep. HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE insult to use this guy to represent all busy people. Huge insult which does nothing but expose your ignorance toward how busy people are. I cannot explain enough how insulting it is to use a lazy CEO to represent how busy the average middle class person is (and some CEOs too, but that a different matter).

I understand the limitations of this, but I could work around those or implement them into the issue. I'm sure most people could find enough time to do 10 hours of community service out of 8760 hours a year.
[/quote]
And my point is that they don't- they absolutely do not. There is no way in hell they'd find 10 hours from 8760. And if they did, then it'll be the bulk of their free time. The other 8750 hours are spent doing EXTREMELY tasks or sleeping. If you think that can do everything they can within 8750 hours then you are unbelievably ignorant towards how busy people actually are. Those 10 hours might literarily be all the free time that's available to them, if even that.

As for the physically and mentally disabled, I could make the case that these people do plenty of community service. Not all community service is picking up trash or volunteering at a soup kitchen. There are loads of different activities and service projects that I have seen mentally and physically disabled people complete firsthand, with little to no difficulty.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You gotta be shitting me right now. Please tell me that is some kind of twisted, horrible joke.

When my grandmother was disabled, she could leave the house unless I was there to take her to out for lunch or dinner or something (or my mother was there to take her to a doctor's appointment or something) and the only thing preventing from working was the fact that she was wheelchair bound (she also had bipolar disorder, but that wouldn't have stopped her doing community service- the fact that she was in a wheelchair). There is was in hell she was capable of leaving the house by herself. She had the mental capacity to do community service up until the point where she had died. (She lived alone, and I saw her that afternoon and everything was so normal that I actually purchased dinner for her that night and found her dead). My grandfather was in an even worse state when he was on his death bed. He was def, bed bound and had no idea where he was or what he was doing. My other grandmother who worked her entire life, now has dementia. Whilst she's kind of with it, she still wouldn't have the mental capacity to be able to participate in community service.

You made good points about this system being a logistical nightmare, which is why I have considered changing it to students instead of the entire population.

Fuck students, especially those who work part time or even full time, and have to study as well. It's not like 20 year olds need sleep or anything.

Or, instead of simply every citizen volunteering 10 hours a year, just able-bodied adults under a certain age. That's much easier to work with than an entire population.

Yea, fuck young people! It's not like young people have jobs, or studies, or families, or anything else that older people have. A 25 year old is just as busy and has little free time as the 40 year old who lives next door, but him, he's 25! She was on 16 and pregnant, because she was, well 16 and pregnant. Now she's 18 year old single mother (the father is nowhere to be found) who has to work full time and look after her child. Fuck her. She's 18, that- and that alone- means she has unlimited free time. She's 24 years old and works two full time jobs. Fuck her! The fact that she's 24 means that she's swimming in free time. (And finally, this final was the situation I was in until pretty much the point of my grandmother's death in April this year) this 23 year old spends many days looking after his disabled octogenarian grandmother, and he's extremely busy with that, as well as looking his home when his family is work is at work, whilst trying to establish his own business in the midst of being financially fucked over by a major company who totally, utterly and completely destroyed his business prospects. Fuck him and how busy he is! He's 23, so that, and that alone, means he's got nothing to do. (Btw, I, myself, am disabled, as recognised by the Australian Federal government, which is a whole other story in and of itself)

As for this system not working IRL, I can agree to an extent.
[/b]

Once again, proving your ignorance

I'm sorry if this came off as rude, but, really, you are ignorant. As a young person, who has seen and cared for 3 disabled grandparents, who has a younger sister who works full time whilst attending university, has a father who works full time despite his diagnosis of server depression and my mother, who works full time both at the premise and from home, as well as looking after the house, etc. etc. etc. only to see you make harebrained assumptions about how much free time we all have is extremely insulting and ignorant. Very, very ignorant. And to assume that this a problem amongst older people is plain moronic- take me, for example, me. I only turned 24 about a week ago, and my aforementioned sister is younger than me. If we're not young enough to qualify for this, then who is. Did it every occur you that the disabled people who are capable of doing community service are those who are capable of leaving the house by themselves. Yea, sure you've seen them and [b]assumed[//b] they were capable of doing community service doesn't take into consideration the ones that you haven't seen, or that looks can be deceiving (or, even for that matter, the fact that someone appears to be able to do something doesn't mean they are, which reminds me, my wheelchair bound grandmother had arthritis which it made it difficult for her to do anything with her hands except eating. Just because it appeared that she was able to move her arms, doesn't mean she was)

Once again, if you want to make a system like this work, look into China's social credit score, which rewards people who do community service. In a nation of 1.3 billion where the government knows every imitate detail
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

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Conexia
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Founded: Aug 09, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Conexia » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:31 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Conexia wrote:Actually, the reason I included the CEO saying he had no time is to show how much of a selfish prick some of these wealthy people can be.

Yep. HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE insult to use this guy to represent all busy people. Huge insult which does nothing but expose your ignorance toward how busy people are. I cannot explain enough how insulting it is to use a lazy CEO to represent how busy the average middle class person is (and some CEOs too, but that a different matter).

Sorry, but I simply do not think you're understanding what I was saying. I'm unsure how this is an insult, but I'm sorry I offended you. I understand how busy some people are, I work 2 jobs, my mother and father were constantly running around after work bringing home my siblings and I from practices and games (before I could drive), but we all managed to complete our 8 Hours of community service a year to graduate.

Australian rePublic wrote:And my point is that they don't- they absolutely do not. There is no way in hell they'd find 10 hours from 8760. And if they did, then it'll be the bulk of their free time. The other 8750 hours are spent doing EXTREMELY tasks or sleeping. If you think that can do everything they can within 8750 hours then you are unbelievably ignorant towards how busy people actually are. Those 10 hours might literarily be all the free time that's available to them, if even that.

I honestly don't see how they don't have time to do 10 hours of community service. In my senior year of highschool, I played soccer, worked every day after practice, and weekends, and still managed to find the time to complete 8 hours of community service. It's not like it all has to be done at once. 30 minutes - 1 hour a week at an animal shelter will get you done real fast, for example.

Australian rePublic wrote: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You gotta be shitting me right now. Please tell me that is some kind of twisted, horrible joke.

When my grandmother was disabled, she could leave the house unless I was there to take her to out for lunch or dinner or something (or my mother was there to take her to a doctor's appointment or something) and the only thing preventing from working was the fact that she was wheelchair bound (she also had bipolar disorder, but that wouldn't have stopped her doing community service- the fact that she was in a wheelchair). There is was in hell she was capable of leaving the house by herself. She had the mental capacity to do community service up until the point where she had died. (She lived alone, and I saw her that afternoon and everything was so normal that I actually purchased dinner for her that night and found her dead). My grandfather was in an even worse state when he was on his death bed. He was def, bed bound and had no idea where he was or what he was doing. My other grandmother who worked her entire life, now has dementia. Whilst she's kind of with it, she still wouldn't have the mental capacity to be able to participate in community service.

Obviously not every disabled person would be able to contribute, but talking about the disabled community as a whole, there are plenty of physically and mentally disabled people who I have had the blessing to meet throughout my years in volunteer programs. People with dementia/paralysis/chronic illness, who would obviously be physically/mentally unable to perform basic actions and therefore would find it nearly impossible to complete community service would have to be an exception, but I feel like that goes without saying, does it not?

Australian rePublic wrote:Fuck students, especially those who work part time or even full time, and have to study as well. It's not like 20 year olds need sleep or anything.

Students definitely have time to complete these 10 hours. My high school had a program just like this and I don't remember anyone not completing it. Most college students have time to do 10 hours of community service as well.

Australian rePublic wrote:Yea, fuck young people! It's not like young people have jobs, or studies, or families, or anything else that older people have. A 25 year old is just as busy and has little free time as the 40 year old who lives next door, but him, he's 25! She was on 16 and pregnant, because she was, well 16 and pregnant. Now she's 18 year old single mother (the father is nowhere to be found) who has to work full time and look after her child. Fuck her. She's 18, that- and that alone- means she has unlimited free time. She's 24 years old and works two full time jobs. Fuck her! The fact that she's 24 means that she's swimming in free time. (And finally, this final was the situation I was in until pretty much the point of my grandmother's death in April this year) this 23 year old spends many days looking after his disabled octogenarian grandmother, and he's extremely busy with that, as well as looking his home when his family is work is at work, whilst trying to establish his own business in the midst of being financially fucked over by a major company who totally, utterly and completely destroyed his business prospects. Fuck him and how busy he is! He's 23, so that, and that alone, means he's got nothing to do. (Btw, I, myself, am disabled, as recognised by the Australian Federal government, which is a whole other story in and of itself)

I never said or assumed that all young people have abundant amounts of free time. Trust me, I am one. But I don't feel like it would be incredibly difficult to complete 10 hours of community service over an 8760 hour long year. Again, there are many practical ways young people can complete these service hours, and it obviously does not have to be done all at one time.


Australian rePublic wrote:Once again, proving your ignorance

I'm sorry if this came off as rude, but, really, you are ignorant. As a young person, who has seen and cared for 3 disabled grandparents, who has a younger sister who works full time whilst attending university, has a father who works full time despite his diagnosis of server depression and my mother, who works full time both at the premise and from home, as well as looking after the house, etc. etc. etc. only to see you make harebrained assumptions about how much free time we all have is extremely insulting and ignorant. Very, very ignorant. And to assume that this a problem amongst older people is plain moronic- take me, for example, me. I only turned 24 about a week ago, and my aforementioned sister is younger than me. If we're not young enough to qualify for this, then who is. Did it every occur you that the disabled people who are capable of doing community service are those who are capable of leaving the house by themselves. Yea, sure you've seen them and [b]assumed[//b] they were capable of doing community service doesn't take into consideration the ones that you haven't seen, or that looks can be deceiving (or, even for that matter, the fact that someone appears to be able to do something doesn't mean they are, which reminds me, my wheelchair bound grandmother had arthritis which it made it difficult for her to do anything with her hands except eating. Just because it appeared that she was able to move her arms, doesn't mean she was)

Once again, if you want to make a system like this work, look into China's social credit score, which rewards people who do community service. In a nation of 1.3 billion where the government knows every imitate detail

Again, I never assumed you (or anyone else, for that matter) had a ton of free time. I simply said that it is not impossible nor out of ordinary for busy people to complete 10 hours of community service time. We had to do it in my High School to graduate, and while it took up around 30 mins - 1 hour a week, it was not horrible at all. As for the Chinese Social Credit Score system, I'll keep that one in mind moving forward if I need to make extensive changes to this draft. Thank you, and I apologize for offending you or anyone else in any way, it was not my intention at all.
Last edited by Conexia on Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 17348
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:22 pm

Conexia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yep. HUGE, HUGE, HUGE, HUGE insult to use this guy to represent all busy people. Huge insult which does nothing but expose your ignorance toward how busy people are. I cannot explain enough how insulting it is to use a lazy CEO to represent how busy the average middle class person is (and some CEOs too, but that a different matter).

Sorry, but I simply do not think you're understanding what I was saying. I'm unsure how this is an insult, but I'm sorry I offended you. I understand how busy some people are, I work 2 jobs, my mother and father were constantly running around after work bringing home my siblings and I from practices and games (before I could drive), but we all managed to complete our 8 Hours of community service a year to graduate.

Australian rePublic wrote:And my point is that they don't- they absolutely do not. There is no way in hell they'd find 10 hours from 8760. And if they did, then it'll be the bulk of their free time. The other 8750 hours are spent doing EXTREMELY tasks or sleeping. If you think that can do everything they can within 8750 hours then you are unbelievably ignorant towards how busy people actually are. Those 10 hours might literarily be all the free time that's available to them, if even that.

I honestly don't see how they don't have time to do 10 hours of community service. In my senior year of highschool, I played soccer, worked every day after practice, and weekends, and still managed to find the time to complete 8 hours of community service. It's not like it all has to be done at once. 30 minutes - 1 hour a week at an animal shelter will get you done real fast, for example.

Australian rePublic wrote: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: You gotta be shitting me right now. Please tell me that is some kind of twisted, horrible joke.

When my grandmother was disabled, she could leave the house unless I was there to take her to out for lunch or dinner or something (or my mother was there to take her to a doctor's appointment or something) and the only thing preventing from working was the fact that she was wheelchair bound (she also had bipolar disorder, but that wouldn't have stopped her doing community service- the fact that she was in a wheelchair). There is was in hell she was capable of leaving the house by herself. She had the mental capacity to do community service up until the point where she had died. (She lived alone, and I saw her that afternoon and everything was so normal that I actually purchased dinner for her that night and found her dead). My grandfather was in an even worse state when he was on his death bed. He was def, bed bound and had no idea where he was or what he was doing. My other grandmother who worked her entire life, now has dementia. Whilst she's kind of with it, she still wouldn't have the mental capacity to be able to participate in community service.

Obviously not every disabled person would be able to contribute, but talking about the disabled community as a whole, there are plenty of physically and mentally disabled people who I have had the blessing to meet throughout my years in volunteer programs. People with dementia/paralysis/chronic illness, who would obviously be physically/mentally unable to perform basic actions and therefore would find it nearly impossible to complete community service would have to be an exception, but I feel like that goes without saying, does it not?

Australian rePublic wrote:Fuck students, especially those who work part time or even full time, and have to study as well. It's not like 20 year olds need sleep or anything.

Students definitely have time to complete these 10 hours. My high school had a program just like this and I don't remember anyone not completing it. Most college students have time to do 10 hours of community service as well.

Australian rePublic wrote:Yea, fuck young people! It's not like young people have jobs, or studies, or families, or anything else that older people have. A 25 year old is just as busy and has little free time as the 40 year old who lives next door, but him, he's 25! She was on 16 and pregnant, because she was, well 16 and pregnant. Now she's 18 year old single mother (the father is nowhere to be found) who has to work full time and look after her child. Fuck her. She's 18, that- and that alone- means she has unlimited free time. She's 24 years old and works two full time jobs. Fuck her! The fact that she's 24 means that she's swimming in free time. (And finally, this final was the situation I was in until pretty much the point of my grandmother's death in April this year) this 23 year old spends many days looking after his disabled octogenarian grandmother, and he's extremely busy with that, as well as looking his home when his family is work is at work, whilst trying to establish his own business in the midst of being financially fucked over by a major company who totally, utterly and completely destroyed his business prospects. Fuck him and how busy he is! He's 23, so that, and that alone, means he's got nothing to do. (Btw, I, myself, am disabled, as recognised by the Australian Federal government, which is a whole other story in and of itself)

I never said or assumed that all young people have abundant amounts of free time. Trust me, I am one. But I don't feel like it would be incredibly difficult to complete 10 hours of community service over an 8760 hour long year. Again, there are many practical ways young people can complete these service hours, and it obviously does not have to be done all at one time.


Australian rePublic wrote:Once again, proving your ignorance

I'm sorry if this came off as rude, but, really, you are ignorant. As a young person, who has seen and cared for 3 disabled grandparents, who has a younger sister who works full time whilst attending university, has a father who works full time despite his diagnosis of server depression and my mother, who works full time both at the premise and from home, as well as looking after the house, etc. etc. etc. only to see you make harebrained assumptions about how much free time we all have is extremely insulting and ignorant. Very, very ignorant. And to assume that this a problem amongst older people is plain moronic- take me, for example, me. I only turned 24 about a week ago, and my aforementioned sister is younger than me. If we're not young enough to qualify for this, then who is. Did it every occur you that the disabled people who are capable of doing community service are those who are capable of leaving the house by themselves. Yea, sure you've seen them and [b]assumed[//b] they were capable of doing community service doesn't take into consideration the ones that you haven't seen, or that looks can be deceiving (or, even for that matter, the fact that someone appears to be able to do something doesn't mean they are, which reminds me, my wheelchair bound grandmother had arthritis which it made it difficult for her to do anything with her hands except eating. Just because it appeared that she was able to move her arms, doesn't mean she was)

Once again, if you want to make a system like this work, look into China's social credit score, which rewards people who do community service. In a nation of 1.3 billion where the government knows every imitate detail

Again, I never assumed you (or anyone else, for that matter) had a ton of free time. I simply said that it is not impossible nor out of ordinary for busy people to complete 10 hours of community service time. We had to do it in my High School to graduate, and while it took up around 30 mins - 1 hour a week, it was not horrible at all. As for the Chinese Social Credit Score system, I'll keep that one in mind moving forward if I need to make extensive changes to this draft. Thank you, and I apologize for offending you or anyone else in any way, it was not my intention at all.

Wait, you're talking 'bout high school students?
Just include it as part of the curriculum
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Conexia
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Founded: Aug 09, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Conexia » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:30 am

It should be, under the 2nd Draft.
But I still don’t think that this issue is as good as it can be.

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USS Monitor
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19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:31 am

I think the player autonomy problem has been adequately fixed.

The effect lines could be funnier, or bring up less obvious consequences of the options.
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Lamoni
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lamoni » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:05 am

Australian rePublic: *** Warning for Flaming ***

You know that you can make your points without insulting people, and that you are expected to do just that. I am also going to recommend a one-day ban on your next infraction.
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Fontenais
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Founded: May 18, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Fontenais » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:26 pm

Conexia wrote:[DESCRIPTION] Recently, the idea of a Volunteer Hour program has been implemented in some private schools across @@NAME@@, where students must complete 10 hours of community service per year to graduate. Now, parents of students in public schools have proposed implementing this in all schools across @@NAME@@.

Minor issue, but I think you should say this should only be implemented in high schools. I don't think a 6-year old would be a very useful volunteer.

Conexia wrote:[OPTION] Your cousin, who is sitting next to you, pipes in. “I think that it’s a great idea. 10 Hours of community service can change a lot. It’s great that students will be doing this, but just think of how much could change if every able-bodied adult had to do it. Of course, some people won’t complete their 10 Hours, but they can reflect on that in prison!” She quickly sits down and begins writing down ideas for service hours.

Also minor, but if your cousin is already sitting next to you, she can't sit down again

Conexia wrote:[OPTION] ”Are you kidding me!” shouts @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, CEO of NAT-U-RAL Co. from his limosuine. “I don’t have time to go out and pick up trash. I’m doing the world a service by supplying the world with abundant amounts of natural gas! Surely that counts as community service… In fact, these kids could volunteer at my plant, if you don’t mind, of course.” He slowly rolls his window up before driving off.

The first part of option 4 is responding to option 3, rather than the issue itself. I'm not sure if this is allowed or not, but it seems a bit disjointed. Maybe option 4 should be limited to saying how the students should have to do work experience, rather than volunteer work.
Last edited by Fontenais on Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Conexia
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Founded: Aug 09, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Conexia » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:58 pm

Fontenais wrote:Minor issue, but I think you should say this should only be implemented in high schools. I don't think a 6-year old would be a very useful volunteer.

I changed it to Junior High and High School. Thanks for pointing that out, it makes sense.

Fontenais wrote:Also minor, but if your cousin is already sitting next to you, she can't sit down again

Fixed. Thank you.

Fontenais wrote:The first part of option 4 is responding to option 3, rather than the issue itself. I'm not sure if this is allowed or not, but it seems a bit disjointed. Maybe option 4 should be limited to saying how the students should have to do work experience, rather than volunteer work.

I held off on this for Draft 3, but I'll keep it in mind for the next draft.


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