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[DRAFT] Repeal "The Charter of Civil Rights"

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The New Sicilian State
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Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

[DRAFT] Repeal "The Charter of Civil Rights"

Postby The New Sicilian State » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:58 pm

Crawford silently slips a draft under the door of a heated debate room in hopes that someone will pick it up and forget that Crawford has no business in this realm whatsoever.

"Greene, fetch me my blanket."



Repeal "The Charter of Civil Rights"
Category: Repeal




General Assembly Resolution #35 "The Charter of Civil Rights" (Category: Civil Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Applauding the World Assembly’s continuous fight to support basic rights for all,

Acknowledging that the Charter on Civil Rights has done more good than harm,

Concerned that the lack of description of “compelling practical purposes” may open the charter up to abuse,

Insisting that while the charter’s scope is large, its broad nature and established laws of the World Assembly heavily impedes any deeper clarification or legislation to be made in either of the articles, including but not limited to a clause discussing movement towards the stopping of various hate crimes,

Understanding that antiquated laws should be replaced with more specialized legislature to ensure the complete protection of civil rights,

Suggesting that individual policy solutions to civil rights issues rather than a single “one-size” resolution,

Hereby repeals The Charter of Civil Rights


Second shot, believe that I may have some good ideas but maybe not the most articulate way of spelling them out. About to head to bed but this is a starting point, will probably create more arguments while cross-referencing extant legislature in the morning...
Last edited by The New Sicilian State on Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:23 pm

“I recommend changing your ‘insisting’ clause, as GA #035 heavily impedes this type of legislation, but there are ways around it being completely stopped.”
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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The New Sicilian State
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Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sicilian State » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:53 am

Kenmoria wrote:“I recommend changing your ‘insisting’ clause, as GA #035 heavily impedes this type of legislation, but there are ways around it being completely stopped.”


"Fair enough, nothing is ever absolute."
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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WayNeacTia
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Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:13 am

"Yeah, we're not going to be doing this

Wayne
"
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:23 am

"What the hell have you been smoking to think that the CoCR causes great harm?!"

OOC: More comments later, right now on smartphone and typing is a pain.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

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The New Sicilian State
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Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sicilian State » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:31 am

Araraukar wrote:"What the hell have you been smoking to think that the CoCR causes great harm?!"

OOC: More comments later, right now on smartphone and typing is a pain.


"Well, not great harm, but it does serve as a bit of an overbearing but also non-specialized clog in the arteries of proper regulation. If repealed, it opens up a whole torrent of policy ideas, each one being more specialized and specific than the CoCR ever could be. As a marginal benefit, it would welcome quite a few legitimate new authors to the table so they can fill the gap the repeal leaves behind. They wouldn't have to bend over backwards looking for policy ideas, the vacuum would be a decent place to start."
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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Youssath
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Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Youssath » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:52 am

"Mhm. And does the great Sicilian ambassador have any replacement resolution in the making as he repeals this resolution?"

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Marxist Germany
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Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:18 am

"One cannot define compelling practical purposes further than CoCR, thus I shall be voting against regardless of the replacement."
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

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Kenmoria
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:20 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:"One cannot define compelling practical purposes further than CoCR, thus I shall be voting against regardless of the replacement."

“I can think of a few ways that would be less open to abuse than the CoCR model.”
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Mand Chais
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Founded: Oct 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Mand Chais » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:32 am

"While it may well be true that the Charter can be further protected against abuse through revision, it currently stands as a bulwark against abuses which may inflict irreversible damage with frightening speed. There is no time for drafting a replacement after the repeal has occurred. I urge that a viable alternative be drafted prior to submission of this resolution."

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The New Sicilian State
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Posts: 196
Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sicilian State » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:06 am

Mand Chais wrote:"While it may well be true that the Charter can be further protected against abuse through revision, it currently stands as a bulwark against abuses which may inflict irreversible damage with frightening speed. There is no time for drafting a replacement after the repeal has occurred. I urge that a viable alternative be drafted prior to submission of this resolution."


"I disagree that one should immediately put forward another behemoth of legislature to fill the gap, I believe that the authors in this assembly should be able to swiftly push through specialized, specific legislation."

Youssath wrote:"Mhm. And does the great Sicilian ambassador have any replacement resolution in the making as he repeals this resolution?"


"I am acquainted with a former ambassador to the WA (OOC: Who quit nationstates over a year ago) who has handed over to me the rights to a piece of replacement legislation he was working on quite a while ago, it needs a little work but I am hesitant to offer up another 'one size fits all' type of resolution. That is part of the problem with the CoCR and offering that to the community would be contradictory to my position on the extant legislation."
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:37 am

When the ideas thread says don't attempt, it's serious. But whatever the matter, what needs thinking here is how to make a better standard than compelling practical purposes. Until you have one, followed by lots of politicking, you will not succeed with this repeal.

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The New Sicilian State
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Posts: 196
Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sicilian State » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:30 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:When the ideas thread says don't attempt, it's serious. But whatever the matter, what needs thinking here is how to make a better standard than compelling practical purposes. Until you have one, followed by lots of politicking, you will not succeed with this repeal.


"What do you mean by better standard? Do you mean that the argument has to be stronger, more supported, or do you mean in thoughts of replacements"
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7914
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 am

The New Sicilian State wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:When the ideas thread says don't attempt, it's serious. But whatever the matter, what needs thinking here is how to make a better standard than compelling practical purposes. Until you have one, followed by lots of politicking, you will not succeed with this repeal.


"What do you mean by better standard? Do you mean that the argument has to be stronger, more supported, or do you mean in thoughts of replacements"

“You simply need to have a far better-worded exception than ‘compelling, practical purposes’, which was the standard used by CoCR. It has to be less open to abuse, less ambiguous, yet still catching all necessary situations.”
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

User avatar
The New Sicilian State
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 196
Founded: Sep 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The New Sicilian State » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:51 am

Kenmoria wrote:
The New Sicilian State wrote:
"What do you mean by better standard? Do you mean that the argument has to be stronger, more supported, or do you mean in thoughts of replacements"

“You simply need to have a far better-worded exception than ‘compelling, practical purposes’, which was the standard used by CoCR. It has to be less open to abuse, less ambiguous, yet still catching all necessary situations.”


"Oh, of course. Multiple specialized laws would make that much easier, but even another blanket act (if I were to draft it) would contain more specific exceptions."
From the office of: John Crawford
Ambassador of Foreign Affairs
Office: the floor between the copier and the water fountain
Palermo Parliamentary Building
Ideological Bullshark # -26

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Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:55 am

The New Sicilian State wrote:"Oh, of course. Multiple specialized laws would make that much easier, but even another blanket act (if I were to draft it) would contain more specific exceptions."

"Give us examples then. There's no way you'll be able to repeal the most important anti-discrimination resolution without a solid pre-drafted replacement."

OOC: CoCR isn't a blocker for further human rights and anti-discrimination resolutions - just read through the passed resolutions and you'll see. It has a minor flaw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a solid piece codifying what many people think of as the "fair game rules" for societies. Even if you got the approval of everyone on this forum, it'd still be unlikely to pass, given that the vast majority of players never set foot on the forums. You would have to have a better and already-written proposal ready to go. If you give that an attempt, remember that you can't copy anything in CoCR without its author's permission.

The New Sicilian State wrote:Suggesting that individual policy solutions to civil rights issues rather than a single “one-size” resolution,

Also, this isn't grammatically right and additionally the word "policy" sounds like referring to the gameside feature; even though I'm fairly sure you didn't mean that, you might want to consider some other word for it.
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.


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